So cookie crumbles is a bad phrase. Yeah. I still think it tastes the same. No, it does. We too worried about Rat Ray mouth. Keep getting caught up in the same game. Me and the wall of friends yelling at it because no one else will listen. I ain't capping when I'm yelling. You can call it passion. Take you a bite of that ginger snapping, snapping. You just ginger snapping. 

Just ginger snapping. Just ginger snap. What's up, everybody? This is Joel Thomas and this is Ginger Snaps. Where this ginger snaps, baby? You can't handle the truth and you can't handle it. You're not going to be able to handle what's happening today. I got a special guest today. But before we get to that, you guys go check us out@killthemockingbirds. com. Go find us on Instagram at Killthemockingbirds podcast. 

You can find me at Van Tesla Music and check out all my music on all streaming platforms. All you got to do is type in Joel Thomas Anywhere you go. Plus, don't forget about the 40 and Airwaves Ultimate Podcast Conference, october 6, 7th and Eigth. All the information is going to be on the website, literally the first home page, so it'll tell you how much the tickets are, what's going on, all the days that you're there, and how to get lodgings as well. 

So just go check that out as soon as possible. Now, we're going to get to some really good stuff today. I'm excited about this episode. So, La Knight, tell them, let me talk to you. Yeah, that's right. And I got my buddy from Shadow Band syndicate with me today. Juan Ayala. I say it right, man, sean always screws it up, but I get it right. So I got to get some sort of credit for yo, shout out to Sean, bro. 

And shout out to you for shouting out Sean, too, by the way. Just a shout out to you, Joel, for shouting out Sean. If anybody doesn't know, that's a joke that we've had going on, because there's been a couple people online, one particular person that was mad at Juan for not shouting out a said podcaster when literally Juan did. So that's the best part about the whole thing. 

It's all good, though. It's okay, man. People get cheeks tight all the time over the dumbest stuff. So we're not here for that. We're here to give you knowledge. But actually, we should actually just stop podcasting because some of the people in the comments have it all figured out and we just need to let them tell us how to do it right. No, absolutely. And I think when we put this episode out, there's going to be plenty of people, at least on the YouTube side, who are going to come out the woodwork and really just give it to us, Joel, because they know what's best. 

But again, for those listening, how Enoch said, loosen thy cheeks, because it's going to get rowdy. And it's okay to have people go against your belief system and challenge it. That's a good thing, right? When people challenge what you believe, that way you can fight against and solidify your point of view when it comes to it. So, again, it made sense to me, Joel, because there's this story about John Dean Edward Kelly where supposedly the angels squeezed Edward Kelly and it all makes sense, Joel, because they squeezed those cheeks, and then when they released him, he knew the Enochian language, Joel. 

So what does that mean? You got to relax those cheeks and it's all going to come to you. All right, so I'm ready, bro. No, that's right. And this is going to be a good one because this actually spawned off on you. And I talking on the phone the other day, and you were bringing up David and Goliath, and you started talking about David and the stones, know, what could those mean from Alchemical point of view? And I was know, let me go look into this a little bit, and then I hit you up a day later. 

I was like, hey, man, why don't you hop on this solo show I got, and we can break this down a little bit from both our point of view use and just see what people think about it. I do find it funny people get really worked up when you start talking about the Bible and Christianity and stuff like that. I never understand the real anger point of it, some of it. 

I do know some people that are involved in witchcraft and things like that, and I think there's entities around them that get a little worked up when you're bringing up certain points of view. On the other hand, I know some people have an issue with it because they see a lot of bad things coming out of the church. And I completely agree with that, though. I think that's something that I think as people that follow Jesus should admit more often than not, because you're going to see a lot of that throughout history, and I totally agree with that. 

And I understand that people have been hurt by the church and all that, and I don't take that away. I just think that we have to look at everything from a panoramic viewpoint when we're looking at all of it. Because whereas I come from a biblical background, I do look at all spectrums. So that helps me, like you said, solidify some things, and sometimes it brings other things to my point of view that I can start adding into what I believe, because I do believe that the Bible is very esoteric and a lot of hidden meanings that weren't necessarily supposed to be hidden to us either. 

I think they were there in plain light. I just think the church did a really good job of dumbing down the supernatural aspect of the Bible, and I think that's where these alchemists come into play because they saw a lot of other things going on with the Bible. Now some of them had nefarious things that they were bringing to the forefront too. So yeah, they're going to come from a negative point of view with that. 

But I don't think all alchemy is bad in the essence of what alchemy really is. I don't think that it is and I think you got people that use it negatively. Absolutely. I think it gets more negative connotations because of the alchemists that we know throughout history that are big. They've done some seedy things. So I think sometimes we see that and it's like, oh, it's like the word esoteric, it just means hidden. 

It doesn't mean something negative but people hear it and they automatically think negative. I think that's something that people need to expand their mind, expand their cheeks a little bit and start thinking a little bit differently as we go through this. But we are going to start today with the story of David and Goliath and I think that's where we're going to get into some weird stuff, even with the Hebrew, some weird things. 

And then we're going to break down the philosopher's stone, how that can tie into it, and a few other verses in the Bible as well. And I know you're going to expound on some really cool stuff that you were talking to me about earlier, but we're going to start with first Samuel 17. And this is where the story of David and Goliath start with verse four. And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines named Goliath of Gath whose height was six cubits and a span. 

So in the Masoratic text in Hebrew, six cubits and a span was roughly 9ft six inches. So he was pretty tall. He was definitely a nephilim. He was a big dude. He wasn't some of these other translations like the septuagint will try to dumb it down to like he was 6ft tall and he wasn't 6ft tall. There's no way, especially when you break down and he had a helmet of brass upon his head and he was armed with a coat of mail and the weight of the coat was 5000 shekels of brass. 

So his helmet, when you break down how heavy it was, it was 30 pounds that was on his head and his chain mail, which they were talking about. The shirt that he wore was 150 pounds. Like a small man was attached to his body. So you got to be a big dude to carry that kind of weight. Just even if it's chain mail and it's light, that's big for you and me to put on 150 pounds like on our chest to carry around. 

So he definitely was a nephilim, that's for sure. He had grieves of brass upon his legs, so he had really big shin coverings. So if you know anything about soccer, like your shin guards. So he basically had big, thick shin guards. His staff or his spear was like a weaver's beam. And I've actually seen some people make weavers beams that were supposed to be kind of two scale of what he had, and that thing was 30 pounds as well. 

So he was carrying around 30 pounds with him. His sword. We won't get into that right away because I don't think that's super important until a little bit later and we'll break down his sword, because that's a weird interesting piece, especially in the Hebrew. So basically what ends up happening, he is standing out here, and he's calling out Saul, who was the king at the time, the king of the Israelites, and he's saying, hey, look, I'm out here. 

I'm with the rest of the Philistines, but look, I'm the champ. Send somebody out, and I will kill them. And it was more like one of those. And sometimes in war, you'll have that moment where you've got your head general and their head general, and they may meet, and whoever wins that kind of wins the battle. So it's not a bunch of death or all that. He's basically proclaiming that, hey, tell somebody to come meet me here. 

He's like, if they beat me, which he's like, they can't beat me. I'm, like, almost 10ft tall. Tell them to come beat me. He's like, if they beat me, then all of the Philistines will lay down and will be under your rule, is what he's telling them. So David, who's like, by the scripture, super scrawny, he's a shepherd. He's a shepherd boy. And he's super young, too. Man in all accounts, it looks like he's probably in his mid teens, 1516. 

He's a young guy. He's not big. He's small. So he comes down there, and he's wondering why all of the Israelites are scared. And he even asks, says, you know, what shall be done to the man that killeth this Philistine and taketh away the reproach from Israel? He's asking, what will happen if someone goes in there and beats him? What do they you know, Saul's offered everything great riches, his daughter, his father's house will be free from debt. 

So he's given him all these things to do. So David's like, he talks to God, and he feels like, hey, I can go do this. And of course, everybody laughs at him. His brother gets so mad at him that he yells at him for leaving the sheep on the side of the hill. And he's like, you're just coming down here to see what everybody's like, you know, you're just the pip squeak. 

You're just my younger brother. Get out of here. But he doesn't and he says that he's going to go up against Goliath, which none of these great warriors of Israel were. They were all scared. They saw this guy, and they weren't going to do to he goes to Saul and saul gives him his armor to wear. Now, when you're first reading it in verse 39, it says, and David girded his sword upon his armor, and he assayed to go, for he had not proved it. 

David said to Saul, I cannot go with these, for I have not proved them. And David put them off. So it looks like just from that basic look of it, he puts on the armor and it doesn't fit. So he's like, I can't go out there with this armor. And if you see a lot of cartoons or little depictions of this piece of it, you'll see David like this kid with a bunch of big clothes on, kind of like you put your dad's clothes on when you're younger just to try to feel like you're bigger. 

Well, that's not really what was going on now, according to I believe it's let's see here. Do we know anything about him before this? Yeah, so he definitely not too much. So you know that he was a shepherd, and, you know, he had some run ins with some animals and killed them with the might of God. So, you know, he's not scared because he killed a lion. I can't remember what the other one was off the top of my head, but he did have some run ins already. 

But this is really your first introduction, real introduction to David. He just kind of comes out of nowhere. And this piece of it right here shlomo Yitskaki. He is a French rabbi, medieval rabbi, and his breakdown of it was he says that when David tried on Saul's armor, it actually miraculously changed to size and fitted him rather than being large. So it was a magical or an alchemical piece of clothing that he put on. 

When he said that this isn't right, he was saying that, no, I can do this with the power of God. I don't need this magical armor that you have, Saul. It's very interesting when you break that part of it down, especially when you're talking about Nephilim. So you would think that he's going up against this Nephilim, which, from all accounts, this Nephilim also had some magical weaponry as well, that he would think he would need that. 

And I thought it was really interesting that he was so close to God that he said, I don't need that. I have the power of God that can stop this. You know, it's like, all right, man, whatever. Go out there. They think he's all dead anyway, dead to rights, even with the armor, the magical armor as well. So he goes out there, he meets Goliath on the battlefield, but before that, he goes down to the river, and he's going to get some stones. 

And in verse 40, he took his staff in his hand and chose him five smooth stones out of the brook and put them in a shepherd's bag, which he had even in a script. And his sling was in his hand and he drew near to the Philistine. Now, in that verse, the word stone is abenim in Hebrew and I went through it pretty heftily and it just means stone. 

It doesn't have any other meanings to it in the Hebrew, it's just a stone. Whereas there are other words in the Hebrew for stone that have other meanings which we will get to still in this talk of David and Goliath. So those are brought up which when he in verse 49 and David put his hand in his bag and took dense a stone and slung it and smote the Philistine in his forehead that the stone sunk into his forehead and he fell upon his face to the earth. 

So in that version, the word stone is ebin and Ebbin can mean a few different things. So it's very similar to our English word sapphire, which is a derivative of the Hebrew sappir. So this actually occurs with this word too, with eban in the indication the stone is valuable, which basically means full, but it's derived from the meaning consecrated. So this is a consecrated stone that he. So I'm to what you talk about alchemy, I'm wondering if the stone changed from when he got the stones. 

Yes, and then it connected with Goliath because in the Hebrew the first word doesn't mean the same is when you get down nine verses later. It's a different word for stone in the Hebrew. So I don't know how you feel about that, but that was where I took it from because it's definitely two different words for stone in the Hebrew. And again, that first word just means stone, abenim. 

That's it. It's in the Hebrew. But when you get to aben, that has multiple meanings for what stone. You know, it even means glistening colored stone of grace is another word for what it means. So Man, I really got the idea that that stone changed from when he found it in the water to when it hit Goliath in the head. There was something alchemically that happened between those moments. 

Well, if it wasn't for the divine intervention in this story, then I would say it's an alchemical change. Let's take out that factor from it, right, because if there is divine intervention from God in there, he could easily just change it as soon as it's going to hit him or whatever. But wouldn't that be alchemy? That would I mean, water to wine, that's essentially what it is. But I've got also so when I stumbled across this to, I was listening to Manley P. 

Hall talking about Mary Ann Atwood and she did some, I believe she has some commentary as well, biblical commentary and alchemy. And in that lecture he mentions, well, what if the stone in which David struck Goliath was the philosopher's stone? Now, the interesting part about that, let's say it's not the philosopher's stone, right? Because this is a regular boy. Right? Again, we're peeling apart the layers here to really get to know there's some matt who was the king. 

He said Saul was the saul was the king. And Saul's a very interesting character, too, because originally, he was following God, and then he gets really down a dark path, because once David beats Goliath here, the rest of the kingdom wants David to be the king. Now, because they clearly see that this kid killed a Nephilim that Saul was scared of, they want him to be the this also ties into the sword of Goliath here. 

In a minute. But Saul gets so worked up and worried about the situation that he actually runs to a witch and gets her to conjure up a prophet from the past, which she's conjuring up spirits. But God actually sends the real prophet back to speak to him and it scares the witch so bad because it's not one of her parlor tricks. So Saul's got a really interesting story about his whole kind of mess he's always dabbling in with these other gods, too. 

That was part of his thing as well, okay. Because that magical armor, I hadn't really ever put it like that again when I was listening to these stories as a kid because it's giving me Arthurian vibes, right? Like only the chosen one is able to take the sword out of the stone. Then we do have an actual sword in this story. But there's something known as the prima materia, which is, again, an alchemy and philosophy prima materia. 

Materia, prima or first matter is the ubiquitous starting material required for the alchemical magnum opus and the creation of the Philosopher's stone. Now, the interesting part about that is that in the 16th century golem story, the reason that Rabbi Judai Lowe is able to make the golem is because he made it in Prague, where the actual land itself, where Prague is on, has this prima material in the actual foundation of the entire Prague. 

It's in the soil. So he goes and they take the soil and they form it, whatever. And the homunculus, they put life into it. What if, right, he goes down by the creek and wherever this took place, the premium material is already there in the ground, okay? And again, he got the premium material. This stone from the ground was just a regular stone to him. It was a regular stone, right? But maybe the lure of the area could have had this premium material, which they attribute that Judai, Rabbi Low being able to do this transmutation of this Golem, right? The creation of this golem because of that material in the ground. 

So there's also that aspect of it, okay? Because, again, we don't 100% know where exactly this happened. Also, here's the flip side of it. I talk about the transmutation of the stone from the sling from him getting it to put it in his pocket. Or maybe it happens in his pocket. And then maybe, who knows, between those versus how that happens. Or like you said, what if he was led to get those stones from that area because they had that energy or that power that would be able to take Goliath out? Man, I'm okay with either or. 

I like it, though. I do. Like I said, again, in the Hebrew, the words change, which I think is really OD, that you just got just the word for stone there, but then it changes to a very multi layer. That's bizarre. Yeah, that's bizarre that it does that. And again, that's alchemical in itself, where if you're not paying attention, you still think it's a stone. And when you look further and you inspect it and again, we're nitpicking these stories right, where we're trying to think outside the box, but when you really start to look down, it's like, okay, well, there might be something else to this. 

There's also something called biological transmutation, I think that's what they call it. And again, there was this argument of how were chickens able to make eggs with calcium on the outside of it if they never consume calcium? So they're talking about how the body again, it's weird, right? A chicken can create they can transmute within your own body another substance. So again, if you think about the energy that goes into slinging a rock, maybe at that point, again, just thinking outside the box or at the point of impact, right, that heating at the point of who knows, right? I mean, it's fun to think about, but yeah, never really broke the story down of David and Goliath. 

And again, maybe it might have been that was his magnum opus and that's what he needed to he needed to be there at that point in time, and it changed his whole life. Because of that, he did become king. So at the end of the day, that was his ascension after that moment, part of that, too. And we're going to talk about the sword. So basically, therefore, David ran and stood upon the Philistine and took his sword and drew it out of the sheath thereof and slew him and cut off his head therewith. 

So David took Goliath's sword and cut his head off. Now, this is where it gets a little bit kind of crazy. So according to the Midresh, which is an expansive Jewish biblical exeges using a rabbinic mode of interpretation, so it's just like a textual interpretation of Hebrew and Hebrew words of the Torah or the Talmud. Sorry. And in that version, it breaks it down even further and says Goliath's sword had magical powers it's actually believed to change size and weight to match the owner. 

So if you think about the sword being on Goliath, that would be a pretty big thing. David wouldn't have been able to pick it up outside of divine intervention. That gave him some sort of divine power to pick it up, which is possible if we're talking about divinity and the power of divinity. But it could have been that when he picked that sword up, it actually morphed into some sort of smaller version that he could handle. 

Now, think about this. We were talking about Saul's clothing that was able to Morph as well. Now we've got this sword, which is maybe a piece of technology. Maybe it's more on the magical or what we would consider magical spectrum, I don't know. Now, what's really wild about the sword, david doesn't use it, but that one time until Saul is hunting David at this point. Now the Israelites want David to be king. 

Saul's not having it. He's got to kill David to end this mutiny that's happening within his kingdom. So David's on the run. David goes to this town in Knob, to this priest called Ahimelech. So he goes to this temple there, and this is where that this sword is. And David goes to him. And this is in one Samuel 21 nine. And the priest said, the sword of Goliath, the Philistine, whom you struck down in the valley of Ela, behold, it is here wrapped in a cloth behind the ephod, if you will. 

Take that. Take it, for there is none but that here. And David said, There is none like that. Give it to me. So he tells the priest he's basically put this sword there for safekeeping in this temple because it's an O two, how he took down a Nephilim. But I think it had some sort of abilities, some sort of technology, and it's clear as day there's nothing like it at all. 

And this is key because I think this is either something alchemical or it's a piece of technology that they cannot explain. And in the Hebrew, Hareb is the word for sword in that particular instance. Well, it can also be described as the sword of Yahweh, an instrument for judgment. Also, it ties into the flaming swords that the cherubim used to guard Eden. So what is this sword? Is it tied into angelic beings as well? I mean, if we're talking about Nephilim, we're talking about fallen angels and what they would give to their sons. 

It's a huge possibility. Yeah, I'm getting, like, super major Dungeons and Dragons vibes, because, again, Excalibur was the sword in the stone. We're going to be talking about stones. It was also attributed with magical powers associated with the rightful sovereignty of Britain. So, yeah, I did not even know that, bro. I mean, you're blowing my mind right now with this extracurricular lore. The Bible is highly stuffed on there's all this lore behind and all this crazy story, and you're talking to me about Morphing, Go, Go, Power Ranger freaking armor and all this stuff and swords that just yeah, that's crazy. 

We can get into also the origin, once you wrap up, of alchemy and why that would make sense. That this giant would have access to that technology. Yeah. And if you want to, we can start getting into the philosopher's stone stuff because I will swing back around with a couple other Bible verses that will tie into the philosopher's stone. So here's laying the groundwork. I do think there's something alchemical going on here for sure. 

I definitely do. And we can take this into the Hebrew. So, like the original text, so it's clear as day in the Hebrew that you've got a stone that goes from one word of stone, which just only a stone. When I go to my theological word book, it just has the word stone by it. But when I go to the other word for stone, it's like a whole page, actually two pages of stuff of what the stone could mean. 

So it's definitely interesting with the stone, but also this technology that is all in this packed in this one few chapters in the Bible where it's like all around this nephilim, all around this magical armor, you've got this magical sword, you've got these magical stones. I mean, it's really wild. And that's why I always say that the Bible is super interesting when you really get into what's going on in the Bible. 

I just think people look at it and they get a certain idea about what they think that it is, when actually it's chock full of just highly interesting things that also connect with us today. Yeah, absolutely. And that's why I think that a lot of the lure, too has been lost through translation, because when they stumbled across a word, they're like, yo, we don't even know what that means. 

Just make a word up, like what the puck is going on, right? Like the stone of Puck. Who the puck is Puck. Right. So we'll get to that here in a second. But the philosopher's stone, obviously, I talk about alchemy a lot. It's a subject that you can spend hours and hours researching it. It exists on various levels. Obviously, we're going to be focusing on more of the physical stuff and we'll touch on the metaphysical, symbolic side of the philosopher's stone. 

But the philosopher's stone at its core, the Lapis philosopherum mythical alchemical substance capable of turning base metals into gold or silver. Okay, that's essentially, if you were to Google alchemy right now, that would be the definition that you would get. Now, it's also referred to as the elixir of life used for rejuvenation and for immortality. Okay? And according to the lure, the light from the magnum opus, because the alchemist's efforts, right, this journey that he undertakes to achieve this magnum opus, the great work which would be essentially creating this stone or this elixir of life. 

And mind you, we're thinking that, oh, an actual stone or elixir. Like a drink? No. What if it's more of like breaking the barriers of space and time and the fabric of reality? Think of it. That right? And it's shrouded in these words because we have no other words to describe it similarly to what we're talking about. There's no words for that. Let's just call it the elixir life, right? And boom. 

According to the lore, when you achieve this magnum opus, the light from this reaction, this alchemical reaction, changes the genetic structure of the alchemist, and he becomes something that's known as a Homo luminous, this next level of Homo sapien or homogeneous, whatever you want to refer to it. And he is able to transcend time, space and time is able to step outside of reality. So quite literally, you become this interdimensional being. 

But only a few people ever achieve this magnum opus, okay? And alchemists will spend their entire lives searching for this elusive mixture. There's different names for it now. The common properties has the ability to transmute base metals into gold or silver, the ability to heal all forms of illness, prolonged life. And any person who consumes a small part of the Philosopher's Stone diluted in wine is able to extend their life. 

Again, this is on the Wicked idea Wikipedia page here. So, again, this is the exoteric stuff that they want you to really but once you start digging deeper, you go, okay, well, this is weird. Other mentions mentioned properties include the creation of perpetually burning lamps. So lamps that don't turn off transmutation of common crystals into precious stones and diamonds. So not just metals, right? Reviving of dead plants, creation of flexible and malleable glass, and you guessed it, Joel, the creation of a clone or homunculus baby. 

So we're talking about, and I'm in the camp, that the Philosopher's Stone was a cover story for the artificial creation of life, because who would want to do all the artificial creation when you could just create a little being that would do all the magical stuff for you? It would look for the gold for you, it would divinate for you. So why waste your time creating? I think that the gold was a byproduct bro. 

So I want to piggyback off of that. And you're kind of playing into exactly what I think about the Philosopher's Stone, too. And I think that the Philosopher's Stone was not only a cover for making a homunculus, because making a homunculus is becoming a god at that point, because you're creating. So that's the ultimate goal. But I also think the Philosopher's Stone is a cover story for the true stone, the cornerstone, which was Jesus. 

So I think that that was part of what they always pushed, especially when you talk about when they were taking the Philosopher's Stone all the way back to Adam and saying that Adam was first given the Philosopher's Stone, and that's how it trickled back down all the way through everyone else to this day. But I want to bring up a couple of Bible verses because this plays really into that Philosopher Stone mentality here we'll Start With The Old Testament. 

I'm just doing a couple verses from the Old Testament and then one from the New. Isaiah 20 816. Therefore, thus saith the Lord God behold, I'm laying in Zion a stone. A tested stone, a costly cornerstone for the foundation firmly placed. He who believes in it will not be disturbed. So again, ebbing is used for the stone. And I didn't talk about this earlier because I wanted to wait to give you another meaning for that word. 

Ebbin. It also speaks of the firestone. So it actually talks about different types of, like the topaz and these different jewels that it talks about. But it does talk about this firestone and it made me think of Alchemy and the Redstone that's talked about where you use it for the purpose of making gold. And it just made me think about how that this cornerstone, which, when we're talking about metaphorically, is talking about Jesus Christ, because he's the cornerstone of what the faith is built on. 

But I do think that there was definitely an alchemical meaning behind it as well. Especially when you're talking about what these alchemists tried to take from it, too. You got, Isaiah? 1913. The princes of Zion have acted foolishly and the princes of Memphis are deluded. Those who are the cornerstone of her tribes have led Egypt astray. So in this particular sense, it's penna in Hebrew and it means cornerstone. 

It can also mean, like corner of a house, corner of a roof. What's really weird though, in the KJV, that's actually the word cornerstones taken out. It says the princes of Zoan have become fools. The princes of not for deceived. They have also deluded Egypt, those who are the mainstay of its tribes. So it took the word cornerstone out of there, which I just thought was just kind of weird. 

There. I don't know why that the KJV would take the word cornerstone out. Clearly, the word cornerstone is know. Generally speaking, meant to be Christ or Jesus or to however you want to say it. So I Think that that Cornerstone being yeshua, you've Got These Other contingent, this Other Side that Might Not Necessarily Like that and May Want To Twist things. As much as we talk about the Bible twisting things, we always have to look at things from both ends of it. 

What was the agenda of these people on the other side as well? So you've got to look at these alchemists. You got to look at the Freemasons, too, because everything's built on stones. We talk about King Solomon building the temple. Hiram BIFF We talk about what the Cornerstone is in Freemasonry. Have you ever seen a building that has been blessed by a freemason? You will find a cornerstone in that building with a freemason symbol on that building. 

So that is a direct correlation to what Yeshua was supposed to be was the cornerstone of the faith, the cornerstone of how all people could be saved, not just the Israelites, but the Gentiles as well, which meant everybody. So I think that that encompassing thing, I think you had some people that came along afterwards in the church and out of the church that were not about that at all. 

And I think that they didn't want people to see love and redemption. And I think ultimately that's what Yesh was about. I don't think it's all these wars that spun off Christianity and all these other nasty things that came out of the church. I think the ultimate the beginning before it blew up and turned a million different ways, like you said. I think on a podcast, we did like 50,000 denominations. 

Only 44,000, bro. There's only 44,000 denominations, I'm sure. And again, back to the firestone. It makes sense. Why? The Firestone Tire and Rubber Company, right? So these guys are putting it in your face right there, where he's one of the more influential people, who was also a part of Florida history, too, by the way. They were trying to grow rubber trees, and Thomas Edison had an alchemical lab here in Florida. 

So real quick to jump around because you're already talking about these stones here. Let me find the slide that I got here. But you're talking about the stone that's consecrated, right? Well, we have in where is it at here? And that was the stone of David. Now, that was the stone. When you talk about the second word for stone, it does stand for that stone. It was something consecrated. 

So that was some sort of metamorphosis from that first word that we talked about earlier to that second word. So KJV Genesis 28 Ten to 22, we have. And Jacob went out to Beer shabbat, so eleven. And he lighted upon a certain place and tarried there all night because the sun was set. And he took of the stones of that place and put them for his pillows and laid down in the places in that place to sleep. 

The rest is history, right? And you see that symbolism a lot of times in what? In freemasonry with Jacob's ladder. Jacob's ladder. So I'm telling you. And Freemasonry is really good at taking a lot of things from the Bible and integrating it into interweaving it into its storytelling. And I think they do that for a reason. And just coming from myself, being part of a lodge at one point in time, understanding how that they sell it to you as being, oh, you're a Christian. 

Cool man that we all are. You know what I mean? Here's why. Look at the symbols. It's all Christian, but when you dig it's really not. There's way more behind that layer that you see what they want those symbols to mean. And I think that's something you got to look at, too. We were talking about on both ends of the spectrum, how that these symbols could have been good but they twisted those symbols and they said, no, those symbols were never good. 

They were always meant to be this. They were always meant to mean this. So again, whatever anyone believes, you always got to look at both sides of it and then derive your own system of what you believe out of that, though. But never take anything from face value, always do extensive digging. So let's kick it into overdrive here real quick. I'm going to be reading from Elias Ashmole. 

You have the theatrum Chemicum Britannicum and he talks about the philosopher's stone here. Now, Elias Ashmol, known for the Ashmolian Museum, the first museum in Britain. I've covered him before because he was an alchemist and he published a lot of works of Edward Kelly, John Dee, et cetera, et cetera. But he talks about the angelic stones, right, and which have in them no part of the mineral stone, for they are miraculous subtle and each of them differing in operation in nature, because fitted and fermented for several effects and purpose. 

Doubtless Adam with the fathers before the flood incense Abraham, Moses and Solomon wrought many wonders by them. Yet the utmost of their virtues they never fully understood, nor indeed any but God, the maker of all things in heaven and earth, bless forevermore. Now, this is from the 16th or 17th century, so this doesn't have right, we're not going to be taking this as like the thing he was repeating because again, he was an alchemist and alchemy was looked at as a natural science, okay? You're taking things in nature, you're mixing them and you're getting a result. 

So it's okay under the standards of God, it's Christian magic, okay? So there were a lot of friars and people of the church, paracelsus was very religious who were doing these things. And since they thought that they weren't having any astral or demonic intervention, any other sort of intervention helping them create these things, it was okay because it was natural. If God put it in nature, I can mix it up and do whatever I want because God put it there, otherwise God wouldn't have put it there and I would not be able to do what I'm doing. 

So he goes on to talk about, by the magical or perspective stone, it is possible to discover any persons in what part of the worldsoever, although never so secretly concealed or hid in chambers, closets or caverns of the earth. So he's talking about with this stone you can find people, right, you can divinate with it, et cetera, et cetera. So he's giving more powers to the stone also namor. 

It enables man to understand the language of the creatures as the chirping of birds, lowing of beast, and to convey a spirit into an image which by observing the influence of heavenly body, shall become a true then right here. And yet this, as Elias Asmol's so he put EA, assures you, is not any ways necromantical or devilish, but easy wondrous easy, natural and honest. So he's like, yo, this is okay for us to do, we're not divinating. 

So then he goes on here. Lastly, as touching the angelical stone, it is so subtle, saith the aforesaid author, that it can neither be so. Again, this is where it gets into the more metaphysical aspect of the stone. It can either be seen, felt or weighed, but tasted. Only the voice of man, which bears some proportion to these subtle properties, comes short in comparison. Nay, the air itself not be so penetrable, and yet, O mysterious wonder, a stone that will lodge in the fire to eternity without being prejudiced. 

It hath a divine power, celestial and invisible, above the rest and endows the possessor with divine gifts. It affords the apparition of angels and gives a power of conversing with them by dreams and revelation. Nor dare any evil spirit approach the place where it lodges, because it is the quintessence, wherein there is no corruptible thing. And where the elements are not corrupt, no devil can stay or abide. 

So he's like, this is the stone, this is what we want. So the philosopher's like everything and some right super magical and hey, and guess what? It's not necromancy, Joel. It's good, it's wondrous right here. It's honest. It's natural and honest. So then he goes on to say so he says some other stuff and he goes on. After Hermes had once obtained the knowledge of the stone, he gave ever the use of all other stones, and therein delighted moses and Solomon together with Hermes, were the only three that excelled in the knowledge thereof, and who therewith wrought wonders. 

So we're talking about again, this was a gift, actually from Professor Longo, and this is Elias Ashmol, and it's a collection of works that he picked out, some alchemical works. Now, there's another theatre chemical that I am translating, the Genesis commentary, because apparently the book of Genesis, according to some alchemists, is the greatest alchemical book that there is. Now, this is part of why we're here, and I'm going to translate it from Latin and I'll probably do a narration later on because it's about 30 something pages long. 

But this idea of Hermes, we had Moses, we had Solomon in there. There's something to be said about that. Because in the Bible, one of the things that made a lot of sense to me was, you have methuselah, right? He lived to what, 969 years in the Bible? And people go, well, that's just a mistranslation they wanted to paint a picture of. This was a very long time ago. 

But how were these I remember as a kid, Joel, asking my grandma, how were these people able to live for so long? Well, Joel, if we follow the story, and I know that this is in your ballpark, right? The nephilim, the watchers, okay? If we follow the origins of that, that's where alchemy came from. Now, the term watchers, joel, when I started to really look down these rabbit holes took on a whole different meaning for me. 

And the term watchers right in the Book of Enoch. Right? Because Enoch methuselah right? He's the children of Lamech, and his father was who? Enoch. Okay, so the term watchers were the watchers up in whatever dimension that is watching the divine alchemist at work transmuting and creating reality itself. Well, who passed on the secrets of all this to the daughters of men? The watchers. Right, the watchers and the fallen ones. 

Yeah. Specifically, Barakael was one of the main watchers. That was a part of doing that on Mount Harmon when they had sex with these women. But for sure. And I think that the Nephilim were created not only to disrupt God's divine creation, but to create alchemists that could combat these other alchemists on the other side, like Adam and Adam's lineage, and they were direct line from God. So he walked with guys. 

Why wouldn't he have understood know was going on in a spiritual realm? You got to think I think the Garden of Eden was in a different dimension. I just think that the rift was wide open between Eden and Earth. So I think that when he was cut off from that, I think that that was just a closing of that dimension, and he couldn't get back in there anymore. 

So you got to understand, from his point of view, being cut off from that and being cut off from God in that way was pretty rough when he had to just be here on Earth and figure it out. But he still had a close connection with God, and he understood this for lack of better word magic or alchemy. And I think that these Nephilim were not only there to disrupt the DNA, but to create powerful alchemists to combat this godly lineage of Adam into Seth. 

Yeah. And here I have in the translation that I did with Mind Unveiled. It brings up, right. It's about the creation of a homunculus, what it talks about here Brandon's secret writing, speaking of all hidden things, et cetera, et cetera, a substance can be created. This substance, when combined with the power of words and rituals, will radiate a light that can transform the ordinary into extraordinary. So we're talking about a substance in an alchemical book of creating a homunculus. 

Interesting. And so to really start cooking, I got one for you that'll piggy off that real quick. Go ahead. You're lagging real bad, bro. Oh, you're good. Go ahead. Because I want to talk about Adam and how he was potentially an alchemist. And it's funny because one of the first alchemists, not to get too lost in the sauce here, zozimos was actually a big fan of the book of Enoch. 

So it just makes me think because he saw the Book of Enoch as, like, revealing these secrets and if you look at the Book of Enoch and it kind of shows you what right at the end of it all. Well, he becomes metatron, right? And I think that maybe perhaps the church knew of these secrets hidden within the Book of Enoch to where they wanted to take it out of the right, the mainstream Can, King James Version and all these ones that are more well known ones. 

But it's funny that one of the first alchemists that we attribute the oldest literature to, Zosimos was like a real big fan of this book. And I have some stuff here, some excerpts that he talks about. But go ahead and link that. Yeah. So you were talking about a substance. So first Peter two, seven and eight. This precious value then is for you to believe, but for those who disbelieve the stone which the builders rejected, this became the very cornerstone and a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense. 

So remember I told you earlier that the New Testament, there's not a Hebrew for it. It didn't derive from the Hebrew because when the writers wrote in the New Testament, this was Greek culture. So it was Koine Greek that you have to go back to the original text. And if you go back to the Koine Greek stone in this verse is lithos and lithos. One of the meanings for it is stone as a substance. 

So it actually stands for a substance. So even though metaphorically, this is talking about Jesus being the cornerstone, it does attribute him to being this substance, this metaphysical thing that we're talking about in alchemy. So I think for sure that when you're reading the Bible, you have to look at it from these aspects because it's right there in the text, especially when you're looking at the original the coine Greek and the Hebrew and the Old Testament, you're going to see these things pop up time and time again. 

Absolutely. And the Genesis one was looked upon by many European alchemists as a guide to the work they were able to undertake. And the process of creation world by the alchemist and his curcumit was compared to the creation of the world by God as described in Genesis. So according to some historians of alchemy, the importance of Genesis in the history of alchemy cannot be ignored. And the first chapter in it is, quote, the greatest page in alchemy. 

So we have these alchemists. And that's why I think that at least the original 1611 version of the King James version could have had some alchemical code hidden within it. Again, I've heard people talk about that before, but we have Adam and we have various people throughout history who write about how Adam was the first teacher of alchemy, followed by Noah, followed by other people. And because they knew alchemy and they could achieve the Philosopher's Stone, the magnum opus, that's how they were able to live for so long. 

So all these patriarchs in the Bible were able to live for so long because they had access to this technology, which, if we follow the lineage, it came from these watchers that passed it on to man and woman. And we have here Paracelsis, talking about in a commentary that there is an indestructible essence, the quote perfect equation of the elements, the subject of the art alchemy, which was revealed from above to Adam. 

It is the secret of all secrets, the last and highest thing to be sought under the heavens. The life elixir, the stone of spirit and truth, the water of life, the oil and honey of eternal healing. It is the spirit of God which in the beginning filled the earth and brood over the water. So we have Daddy Paracelsus, ariolas Philippus, arios Theophrasis Bombastus bon hohenheim. Talking about how the alchemy was revealed to Adam. 

And again, we have other let me find here I want to talk about, right? So we had David and Solomon was his son. We mentioned that at the beginning. Well, we have first chronicles where the Puck stones, right? We have David leaving Solomon some things and whatever translation and there's a really good article on it. It's called a paper, it's by Raphael Patai and he is an esotericist in alchemy. 

And he talks about biblical figures as alchemists in this paper. And he goes hard, like he goes deep into it. And he talks about how there's a translation where it says the stones of Puck because King David left Solomon right gold god, the gold for things to be made of gold and the silver for things of silver. The brass. For things of brass the iron for things of iron the wood for things of wood onyx stones and the stones to be set glycerin stones. 

But in some translations, the stones of Puck, which there's no translation for the stones of Puck. So what the Puck is going on? Who's Puck and what are his stones? And what was David doing with the stones of Puck? Were those philosopher stones that David passed on to Solomon? Because one of the interesting things that I found here, right, you had Solomon and the king made silver and gold at Jerusalem. 

So we had Solomon creating silver and gold. But let's not forget a familiar face here because Solomon shamir, for those that saw my videos on the Titanic, Solomon shamir, it's interesting because the shamir is a worm or a substance. So we have this, again, alchemical connection to the Solomon shamir that had the power to cut through or disintegrate stone, iron and diamond. And supposedly King Solomon used it in the building of the first temple in Jerusalem. 

So again, was it a worm or was that a cover story for a philosopher's stone? Joel and we're dealing with alchemists here, which I believe we're dealing with alchemists, I mean, the oldest alchemist of all time. Well, you brought up second Chronicles 29. And when I looked at it in the Hebrew, the word stone does go to aben, which is also the firestone. So if we're talking about where you're going with it, and it's using that word aben with puck, so you've got this firestone and this puck, which is a word that we don't understand. 

Yeah. So you've got those two words together. So you are looking at something probably alchemical there. You definitely are. And I think that as we look at these texts and as we're looking, especially at the Old Testament and we look at what these guys had knowledge of, I think that we have to start looking at it with a different lens, with an Esoteric lens when we're looking at the scriptures as a whole. 

Because again, and I say this a lot, I don't think God ever wanted us to be separated from that. But I do think that the legalistic view of the church was implemented for that reason. And I think that you had the guys who wanted to cook up what they wanted to cook up, literally on the outside of that, creating this whole other regime, this whole other thing that they did. 

So I think that's kind of where we're at today with it. So that's really kind of where I'm at with this whole David and Goliath thing. For sure, man. It's definitely an alchemical story. Yeah. And I'm going to leave plenty on the table because I have a whole bunch of other stuff. Real quick set. Adam's third son obtained the secret of the stone from his father. We have Two Ball Kane, because I know you like Two Ball Kane, forger of every cutting instrument of brass and iron, the smith's craft. 

So again, alchemy is the religion of fire. So we have the furnace and the alchemical fire. So if anything, we can revisit it on Shadow Band Syndicate when we do the old Earth episode and really go deep. Because I found a rabbit hole, bro, that I peaked, I stuck my head and I was like, yo, what the fuck is going on here, bro? And it's a deep one, so I want to get your thoughts on it when we do it. 

So definitely. But yeah, I think that alchemy is present in the Bible and whether people want to admit it or not. And again, we presented some of the evidence, and mind you, we're dealing with alchemists that speak in code and symbols. So who knows what's behind all these other words, right? You're talking about the stone word and the fire stone and all that stuff. It's really interesting. Yeah, man, absolutely. 

And I'm really glad you came on today. I had a blast. I was looking forward to doing this because these type of episodes are a lot of fun for me, especially when I get to go real biblical, because I kind of go to a different place than most people do. With the Bible, because I do think that there are so many hidden gems in there that people don't really look for and they're not taught to look for. 

We're actually taught to not look at the supernatural, even though we're looking at a book that was told to us, that was given to us by a supernatural being, which absolutely makes no sense to me. If you believe in that, then how could you not believe that? There's fantastical things within these texts. It's all over the place. I just think that we've been dumbed down to not look for it. 

And again, I think that whereas you've got these alchemists that hide all of this knowledge, I think the alchemy that came from this Adams line and this Seth line, I don't think they were open with it. I don't think that they didn't want it to be for everyone else. I think it was supposed to be for everyone else. I think that you've got what considered the occult, the hidden knowledges. 

I think it became something that we only want these elites to have, that they can only control, that the masses need to be controlled by these elites who have this hidden knowledge. And I think that's where throughout history, it just got deeper and deeper. And here we are now, you and me, digging around in these texts that we can try to get our hands on, to try to figure out just a smidgen of it. 

We got to figure out what the puck is going on. Bro, thanks for having me, dude. This was awesome. And as always, right before he jumped on, I was like, bro, I don't know if we're going to be able to go for the time, but yeah, dude, this is great. We'll do it again soon. Yeah, for sure. And if you can just let everybody know where to catch your stuff at, you can find me TJ Ojp. 

com, any major podcast platform, the one on one podcast, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, all that stuff, bro. Tjojp. com. And you can find me@killthemockingbirds. com at Killthemockingbirds podcast on Instagram, and at Vantesslamusic. And you can catch all of my music on any platform. Just type in Joel Thomas. And I'm going to end it today with the song I did called Plato's Cave, and I thought it would fit the vibe of what we were talking about today. 

Peace, y'all. Vance was music. I'm feeling what shax us does a thing we just love a toxic and we binge think we're free when we're on the fringe ropes full of death and bones when we chase the mound what we acquire will be composed what do we want? Do we want, do we want shadows dance on that came from our master bars closing in behind us it don't matter jesus prayed in the garden while his friends slept we're just broken pieces to the gold and no missteps I'm here to break down all your idols ritualistic. 

If you don't like it. I don't speak in you for mystic terms. The world is run by Charles Montgomery Burns. They keep in it hooded like CERN. They've done it in thirds before the earth was occurred. And all the friction I'm getting is warranted when your chambers don't echo the entrance needed for what I'll be saying don't come from Progressive or Gecko. And why are you popping prosecco if you ain't putting in labor? I'm taking shots of espresso every second I favor more than the last? We never get a return on time lost with the divine laws but people looking to rapid like tacos with lime sauce hey, I never cared too much what they say and matter of fact what I'm saying I ain't here to explain it on the levels all they see, but they don't see my creator campaign of politicians for your souls. 

No debate after the next. I'm calling them Benedict Arnold. I got me a chopper. Most of our collars are blue most of us can't even afford one. Lining up for new iPhones and Jordans. It ain't our blessings then. We praying for misfortune on others, on our socials feeling so important I'm breaking you down. Ain't here to make you feel comfortable. Just avowing the opposite sex while creating the monsters potness details we create for ourselves. 

Timelines are nothing but cells. Shadow dance. On that cave, I'm a master behind us. It don't matter what was dancing to the flicker here, the laughter. We just think that it's normal in the chapter. Become a one with the flame, with the flip. When they think I'm going left, that's when I'm going right. Looking back into the cave, I want to help you close. .