The Real Donnie Brasco: REVEALS Why Joe Pistone Stole His Name

➡ The text is a conversation about a man named Joe who was mentored by the speaker’s father, a former gangster turned pastor. Joe, who admired the speaker’s father, learned how to blend into the gangster lifestyle, even though he was an FBI agent. The speaker also mentions a wine brand named after him and discusses the confusion and challenges he faced due to Joe using his name as an alias. The speaker’s life was affected by this, as he had to lie about his identity and deal with people’s misconceptions.
➡ The speaker is a former undercover FBI agent who followed in the footsteps of his cousin, Joe Pistone, famously known as Donnie Brasco. He faced challenges due to his famous name, but he managed to maintain his cover and work on various assignments. He became a certified undercover agent in 2006 and worked on cases that were not related to organized crime. He also shared his thoughts on the movie Donnie Brasco, stating that it was accurate in portraying Joe’s experiences.
➡ The speaker discusses a recent conversation with Donnie Brasco, a high-profile figure, and the challenges Brasco faces due to his fame. The speaker also mentions an upcoming event on November 16th, the Harvest Crusade, which will take place at the location where Charlie Kirk was assassinated. The speaker encourages listeners to stay safe and healthy, and ends by promoting a wine brand named after him, Franz East Wine, which is available in both alcoholic and non-alcoholic versions.
➡ To become a certified undercover agent, you need someone to vouch for you and then you have to prove your skills in a meeting. If you pass, you join a pool of candidates and attend a two-week, 24/7 training school in a public location. The training involves various scenarios and role-playing, and your performance is constantly evaluated. If you pass, you can voluntarily take on undercover assignments as they come up.
➡ The text discusses the complex relationship between undercover agents, their informants, and the justice system. It highlights the personal bonds that can form between agents and their sources, and the ethical dilemmas they face. The text also touches on the challenges of keeping politics out of agencies like the FBI, and the importance of upholding the law fairly and honestly. It ends with a question about reconciling the country’s Judeo-Christian values with practices that don’t align with them.
➡ The speaker discusses the importance of strong leadership and how it impacts society. They express support for Trump’s policies, hoping for a better future for their children and grandchildren. They also discuss their respect for individuals like Cash Patel and Dan Bongino, who stand up to Congress. Lastly, they question the circumstances surrounding Epstein’s death, suggesting possible interference and questioning how such a high-profile case could be mishandled.
➡ The speaker discusses various issues, including the concealment of important information, the perceived corruption in the justice system, and the lack of accountability in leadership. They express concern about the current state of the FBI and the need for transparency and accountability. They also discuss the impact of media bias and the difficulty for ordinary people to stay informed due to their busy lives.
➡ The speaker discusses their political views, concerns about government transparency, and the impact of government shutdowns. They also express skepticism about conspiracy theories surrounding the assassination of Charlie Kirk, emphasizing the importance of factual information and questioning the status quo. They highlight the need for common sense in politics and express frustration with the country’s debt.
➡ The speaker discusses the challenges of maintaining secrecy and integrity in the FBI, highlighting the strict rules and consequences for dishonesty. They also mention the difficulty of being an undercover agent, living a double life, and the impact of social media on law enforcement. The speaker expresses their personal commitment to the FBI and their disappointment when its reputation is tarnished. They also mention a manuscript they’ve written about their experiences.
➡ The text is about an undercover operation involving organized crime, drugs, and money laundering. The narrator, an undercover agent, shares his experiences working on the case, including close encounters with criminals who unknowingly discuss other famous undercover agents. The story also touches on the challenges and ethical dilemmas faced by undercover agents, and the importance of maintaining integrity and professionalism in the field.
➡ The speaker discusses the role of law enforcement, expressing concern over statements made by Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett about police not being there to prevent crime, but to investigate it. The speaker also shares his experiences in law enforcement and his desire for truth and justice. He mentions his son’s involvement in a program related to law enforcement and his own past as an FBI agent. The conversation ends with a discussion about political division and the speaker’s hope for unity and understanding.

Always Donnie. I see. Because I would say if Joe would have picked that name and nobody in my former life had the foresight to go and check, or was there another Donnie Brasco, another Dominic Brasco? I never did that. Right. So I was wondering why, why would Joe pick a name of somebody on the street that might have been questioned? Because, hey, we know Dominic or Donnie Brasco from Pennsylvania. Right, Right. You know, so I’m wondering why. Why do you think that dad, you know, dad had a reputation. Joe looked up to him. They’re three years of years apart.

So you know how it is. You’re a freshman. You’re, you’re, you’re, you’re. Your buddy is a little bit older, younger. So he loved my father. I mean, if you asked him, you saw him today, he would, he will. And there’s, there was a reason. My dad was just that guy. He loved my father. And did, did your dad kind of mentor Joe as to how to act among the other guys? Honestly, I think that that’s how he probably saw my dad. Even though my dad became a pastor, he still acted like a gangster. Yeah. In the house.

And it was just the way he was. And he was old fashioned. He was old school. But yet. So I had a little bit of a different kind of upbringing. He wasn’t like the guy that was, he was still ran the roost. He still was. He was, he was one of those guys that was just his personality. My friends, you may not have heard, but I now have a wine branded in my name. Franz east wine. I’m very proud of it. It comes from the world’s first vineyards. We have alcoholic wine and non alcoholic wine. Several varieties, fruit varieties.

You’re going to love it. Different than anywhere you’ve ever tasted before. So enjoy this with your friends. Go to Franzeastwine.com and offer you shouldn’t refuse, but a taste you’re going to love. Now, did you meet Joe when, you know, during this time when he was talking to your father and. Well, you know, I was, he was. Joe came in in 1969. Right. So. So my dad actually gave his life to Christ in the late 50s. So it was like, I want to say it was 58, 59, something like that. 59, something, something in that range. So Joe never knew what dad was doing, but he knew when they’d see each other and whatever, that he wasn’t just a guy out there.

My dad wasn’t in college. I think he went a couple semesters. He wasn’t really doing anything. Quote Unquote productive. And you know, back then there’s no. There’s no computer, there’s no right. There’s a house phone. I think even back then they used to have that party line. So. Well, you know, Joe. Joe had to learn from somebody. Because I met Joe briefly. He came down to my dealership, I think with Tony Mira, if I remember way back when, we spent a couple hours together and then I’d never seen him again. But for him to be able to blend in so easily, he had to know the life.

He had to understand it. Because Donnie, to be in that life, six, to be undercover, and I’ve said this to Joe, to be undercover for six years and not get outed in any way. I mean, he was good. He was good, I’ll tell you. And this just came from me watching you with him on your show or listening. Joe was in three or four or five years in the Bureau maybe before he took on this, my. Our family name, the alias. Right. The truth is, you know how he became a wise guy? He was trained by the street.

You’re two or three years, four years in the FBI. You’re not an FBI agent. You don’t know anything. Even back then they probably had. I want to say it was. I don’t even know if it was an eight week course. It might have been six week. Everything was on the job training. So he was trained by guys like you? He was trained by them. He’s actually. He was made by the lcn. He was not as much as he was an FBI agent. He wasn’t doing crimes, I’m not saying that. But he learned from the ground up, from hanging around, from listening.

And when you and I, when you and he talked, when I listened to your. How long ago was that? Oh, it’s a couple years now. Yeah, it was, it was weird from my perspective because, you know, I talk to him regularly. It’s not like it’s whatever. And I could see that he was talking to. Not just because he was talking to you in an interview, but you knew what he knew. He knew what you knew. You were the real thing. He was playing the real thing. But he, he did a phenomenal job of learning. And that’s what you do.

You become. Well, yeah, I got to tell you this. She and I did a. For Major League Baseball. We did a. Some kind of symposium. We. Speaking to athletes and everything else and a lot of. A lot of people from the Major League Baseball and they were questioning us. And I got up to him afterwards and I said, Joe, you know what? I could have been. They could have confused me for the FBI guy and you for the street guy here. Right. I said, that’s how good you play that role. You know, how good you got into it.

It’s really. Even his mannerisms and everything. It’s who he is because we’ve been together a few times, different things that we’ve spoken together. Right. And his mannerisms. I mean, he’s the street, well, person. And trust me, when he got pulled out, you have to understand, five, six years, whatever the real total was, he’s in trial. He never became a real, quote, unquote, FBI agent ever again. He was whisked off here. He helped start our program that helps guys, that when you go under psychology and things like that, that you don’t start thinking you’re the other guy and keeping your mind straight and safety and for your family and everything.

He never went back to the street. He never went back. He didn’t run sources, he didn’t run cases. So he was. He was the consummate wise guy, whether he learned some from my dad, some from himself. But he was raised by those guys. Yeah. Did they have to take him off the street after that? Because he was so. You know. Oh, yeah. No, he was never gone. And that’s where, I guess. Not that I want to stop talking about him, but that’s where, at age 10, he takes our name, my name, me not knowing it. In 1981, I’m 15, 16 years old.

The book comes out, and we get invited to this party. My dad doesn’t say a word. We go to the house. It was a family member of. Of his wife’s, and you open the door, and boom. There’s all these pictures, all these books, all these magazines, these posters with my name on it, right? And then, bam. Here’s a kid who wanted to be an FBI agent, not knowing all the while that he’s using my name in these circles. And then that’s where he stopped being Donnie Brasco, even though he still takes on that’s what he was.

But I never stopped being me. From 1981, I had to lie. My family had to lie. And up until now, other than some few close family friends, we’ve had the lie. You use your credit card, you try and rent a car, try and make a dinner reservation. Then you. You go up and pay with your. You can’t be like. It’s no matter where you go, your name is everything. And that’s where we sort of separated. He could say he’s Joe Pistone doing this and go and talk about what it was like to be under. But I never stopped being me.

We never. We were never trained from the Bureau to ever, you know, operational security. Nothing. I mean, we had. It was. So during your time in the. In the Bureau, when you use your right name, right? It was Fresco. Yeah. Every time you mentioned your name, did somebody look at you strange or. You know, it was. It was weird because there were people that were sort of, you know, this is. Not everybody’s together, right. And they thought that I was him. Sometimes I’m like, I’m 30 something years old here. He’s. He’s in his 60s now. But it was always.

I’d get a look, and not everybody likes them in the Bureau. Not everybody liked them, you know, just like me. Just like you would. And so I always had to do a little bit better, do a little bit more, be a little bit more understanding of. I don’t know who I’m talking to. Is he really a friend of ours or is he not? And that’s how it was. I mean, even to the point where I called him about coming on your show, I said, what do you think? He goes, michael, he’s a good dude. He said he squared away.

He’s, you know, one of us. You don’t have to worry. And that was it. Boom. I think our conversation. We didn’t say anything. It doesn’t. He doesn’t know. Doesn’t elongate the conversation. Are you kidding me? Well, let me. Now you get in the Bureau, right? And because of the name was so popular, Right. I mean, everybody knows Donnie Brasco. Did they have to put you in different assignments so that the name wouldn’t stand out in any way? This was such unchartered territory. I mean, it was. No. People would think it was a joke. If I go to the knock on somebody’s door, I’d say, hey, you know, FBI.

And I’m here with, you know, Special Agent Parks, and it’s a. And I’d show my creds, and they’d laugh and say, what’s your name, Agent? What’s your real name? That’s not your real name. So I constantly, you know, he was able to go off and be his new name. Right. All these years, 45 years since. Or 40 years since. I’m 16, 17 years old. I’ve had to stick with this. Yeah. And really be undercover and lie all this time. So it was even. Now, I guess, you go to rent the car. I go through T. We just went through tsa, and the guy starts laughing, and.

And it’s hard for me because I’ve. I’ve talked to some people. I have to try and promote myself, that I’m not Joe Bastone. He did his thing. I have got my thing. We had our relate. We have our relationship together. But I was an undercover agent for 21 years. I was trained to do the same things that he did, and it was a little more difficult for me than a regular guy. You’re not family. You’re just really close friends, right? No, no, he’s Joe’s. Joe’s mother. Yeah. Or Joe’s father and my father’s mother, brother, and sister, so he’s my second cousin.

He was always Uncle Joe, everybody. You know how it is. Yeah. You can have uncles and aunts that aren’t yours because they’re close. No, he’s my. He’s my cousin. He’s. Now we’re blood. Wow. And when I tell you when I’m with him, it chokes me up a little bit because he is my father. Yeah. To see him. If I have pictures of my dad and he. And I. And it’s just. He’s got that. He’s. He’s a Bastone all the way through. He’s. They. They just. It’s just a family. Wow. Yeah. So. All right, so now you get into the bureau.

What. Did you ever do any undercover work? Well, that’s what I. I became. I became a certified undercover agent in 2006. I started doing things before with organized crime. Again, I never really worked. I had some superficial cases that I found out after the fact. There were a couple of guys from. From New York. I actually looked them up recently. Well, I would think you would have to change your name. Yeah. No. Oh, no, no. Well, no. When I was undercover, I used. You know, obviously, I had four or five different aliases, but I never really worked.

I worked probably every other violation except for organized crime. And not because I didn’t want to. Just the opportunity never arose. I mean, I’ve been prayed into Islam by a guy who spoke fluent Italian from San Diego. And in my manuscript, I write about some things are undercover cases. Like, they’re signed off. You know, this is the objective. You’re going to do this. They put the money out there. You need to follow this, this, and this. These are the predicated offenses we’re going to look at. And then there’s other ones that are like. They’re just a bump.

You’re at the grocery store. You are somewhere surveilling somebody here. The bad guy walks up, you strike a conversation up with them, and you try and get as much information as you possibly can to give back to the case agents. And were you inspired by Joe Pistone to do undercover work that the. I hate to say the truth. I wanted, Always wanted to do it, but I had no idea when I got in. You have to understand, I got in. I didn’t tell him that I was applying. I get a phone call that from him after I applied, and he used language that I try not to use.

What are you doing? And I’m like, hey, what are you doing? We go through this whole dog and pony show about, what are you doing? I’m working. What are you doing? Why are you calling me? What’s going on? And he goes, you applied to the bureau? I’m like, yeah. He goes, well, you don’t think they were going to call me and ask? I said, well, they asked if you have a relative. I just put it down. I don’t know. I have no clue. So we didn’t talk about it until I actually got. Was he upset? Did he not want you to? No, he was shocked.

I think he was shocked. I don’t think. I don’t think. I don’t think he even thought about it. I mean, he knew before that I was in the process to be a New Jersey State trooper and I was accepted to go into New Jersey State Police, and it really wasn’t what I wanted to do, but the bureau wasn’t hiring, and they were only hiring people that were already on. On board employees. They used to do that a lot because they didn’t have to do background checks. They knew that you were already as somebody that’s working for the bureau.

So it streamlined the process a lot more. So in the late, late 90s, early 2000, when I got in, they opened it up a little bit more. So they were hiring more agents just prior to 9. 11 got it, but he didn’t know. He didn’t know. And then the day before when I got the call that I actually got in, after they do all the background investigation and everything, I called him on the phone. I said, hey, just want, you know, I got in, I’m starting, whatever. And I said, any advice? And he said, yeah, don’t blank it up.

That was it. Yeah. And I was like, okay. Boom. And that was the end of the conversation. The next time I saw him was on the, on the, the stage as I’m. He’s handing me my Creds and my badge. Oh, he did, yeah, he did. Yeah. That was it. That was a privilege to. If you were legacy, that. What did you. What did you think of the movie Donnie Brasco? I’ll tell you what. Let me ask you. From your perspective as an agent now, having gone through this for 20 years, right. How accurate do you think the movie portrayed what really happened? The truth is that whatever Joe says happened, happened.

Whatever is in the transcripts, whatever’s in the 302s, that’s what really happened, what Hollywood did to it. I have to tell you the truth. I don’t know. I thought that obviously. I mean, one wonderful thing about that whole thing is a lot of the family members that were able to leave, we went to the premiere. So I flew out and we flew out to the premiere. We were at the backstage party, met. I have pictures of myself and Johnny Depp and Pacino. So that was the only perk that we really got. But I thought the movie was great.

I mean, it was Johnny Depp’s really. His role of not being his. I don’t know what to say, how to describe it. The characters that he played were not mainstream characters. Right. And I think that was his first one that he really was a serious actor. Not that he wasn’t an actor, but it wasn’t knowing Joe. Do you think Johnny portrayed Joe the way he would have been on the street like that? Oh, I. I think that’s probably. Probably the most accurate thing he learned. I know that he learned. Learned his mannerisms. They used to hang out, and he would follow him around and try.

That’s where he’s very cerebral. He’s a really smart guy. He did like Joe did. Learning how to become a wise guy. Well, I can tell you this. I knew Lefty Ruggierofredi, and I thought that was Al Pacino’s greatest role as a mob guy. Right, right. Without. He just killed it. He was great. No, I agree. I agree. But we. It was the. That whole. To answer your question, it’s really difficult because when you work undercover, when you work casework, there are things in that era that may or may not have been left on the table. I don’t know.

So in our. In the new era, since when I was certified to do undercover work in 06, there was much more emphasis on making recordings. We had better devices. I mean, back in that era, whether it was Joe or somebody else, and make no mistake, I’m related to Joe Bastone. I’m Donnie Brasco. I did Undercover work just like he did and just like 300 and something other guys. I don’t know how many there are now, but when I left, There were not 400 certified undercover agents in the FBI, period. Out of 14, 13, 14,000 people. How do you get certified? So there’s a, there’s a, there’s a, I don’t want to call it a preschool.

You sort of have to have somebody vouch for you and somebody vouches for you. And I had a guy named Juan Jackson who is a super undercover guy and he’s, he vouched for me. You go to a sort of a sit down and it was a little bit odd. You sat in like a, I don’t know, like a boardroom area. And boom, you’re like, okay, you’re going to sell, sell me some, some dope. You’re going to sell me this, you’re going to do this, persuade me that you’re going to be this guy. And they see how good you can act off the, off the cuff.

Oh, and then they sort of have a little sit down afterwards and say, what, what do we think of this guy? And, and then if you, if you pass that, then you get all these people get put in a pool. And back when I did it, I don’t know if there were more than two classes a year because maybe 30, 30 something people actually get to the point to do it. And I want to say we had 50, 60%. There was, we had a nutrition rate, there was 10, probably 10 people, I don’t know, that didn’t make the cut.

But there’s a process of doing that. And then when you go to the school, the school’s two weeks long. It’s 24 hours a day for two weeks. You live, eat, sleep. Mine was actually in a. We use, I’m going to try and be as, as correct as I can. We use locations that are public. Nobody knows, except for maybe the owner of the establishment where you are, where you’re staying, that the government’s doing something. They don’t know anything in particular to make it as real as it can be. You’re with regular citizens. You’re right, you’re doing stuff and you’re there for two weeks.

And they have a set amount of scenarios that people go through and they, they lead you a little bit. You start off a little bit slow. Legend building is who I am. And then the next thing in each one you get done, they critique you and there’s a bunch of role players. And I became one of Those role players at several schools. And you’re there looking at saying, yeah, Michael was good, but I don’t know, he seemed. He got a little blotchy in the face. He was a little bit nervous. And then if you’ve got a rabbi there or somebody that say, hey, give him another shot.

Let’s whatever. But there weren’t any, like, another shot that you’re going to make it. You’re on the bubble, they call it. And when you’re on the bubble, now, they press you even harder. And if. If they don’t think you can make it, because I guess they want to know your temperament. Well, the big thing is, is there’s been. There’s never been a certified FBI undercover agent killed in the line of duty, ever. So me going through. They’re not going to give anybody anything. They. I. Michael, when I went through the undercover school, I. I was hazed beyond anybody else.

Yeah. And you know how I know that? Well, I knew it because I knew it. But I talked to Scott Payne three weeks ago, and we were on the phone, and he apologized to me because, hey, man, he was certified, I think, two or three years before I was. So now he was a. He was a role player. Proctor counselor. Right. And he’s like, donnie, what they did to you is terrible, because it wasn’t right. Well, you think they did that because of the name Donnie Brownfield? Of course, they didn’t want. They did not. They’re not going to certify anyone, period, if you weren’t any good.

And I know some really good guys and girls that have gone to the school that got bounced. I mean, good cops, good agents, good case agents, but they just couldn’t handle the pressure of the crucible that you’re under. And let me ask you, now that you’re certified, does the Bureau come to you and say, hey, we have a number of different places we can put you that we need undercover work. Do you choose at that point or do they assign you? The great thing is it’s all voluntary. So if anybody tells you, hey, I became this.

I was this. And they called me to do this, they can call you. And if your mind’s not right because you got problems at home, if you’re feeling sick, whatever it is, it’s all voluntary. But what happens is people get to know you, you do a couple small jobs, and then it builds from there. Hey, he’s a pretty good guy. Mike’s a good guy. Donnie’s good guy. Give him a call for this. And that’s how it happens. And if you want to know another, I don’t know, truism about what happened to me besides being hazed like crazy, I was put through, like, I had to go.

These. The girls in the class. The girls, the counselors in the class thought that I. I was like a woman hater. I have three daughters. I mean, nobody’s more in tune to women than. Than me, as far as I got five. So. Okay, there you go. So you understand? I do. So. So. Well, let me tell you, I got accused of being a misogynist because I took a picture with Andrew Tate. Well, there you go. Yeah, I know Andrew Tate. You’re kidding me. I have an independent wife, five daughters, granddaughters, you know. Right? Yeah. People are crazy.

So these girls, they actually, I was partnered up in some drug scenarios during the school. And there was a girl, super girl, and they told us, hey, the females are as good as you are. You don’t let. Don’t. They’re not just eye candy. You let them. They can listen, they can do the same things you do. And I believed it 100%. So we go into a drug scenario, me and this girl that was partnered up with me in the class, and she got blotchy, she got red. A guy asked me a question, say, hey, who is the girl? Who’s the skirt? And I would.

I said, hey, she’s. She’s my partner. She’s. She’s a. She was an accountant. She’s great with numbers, but she’s free, you know, like you’re asking me because she’s cute. You want to go give it a shot? Go ahead and give it a shot. Well, these guys, now, they press because these the role players. These guys are seasoned guys, and sometimes they have a little bit more fun than they should, but. But they know that the real world is guys and girls. The mixture is tough sometimes. And they pressed her and she broke. She did, huh? And she had to be asked to leave.

So now the girls in the course think, hey, this Donnie threw her under the bus. So now they went to the guy that was running the course and said, we want to put him through some stuff. We don’t think he’s going to be good with female agents. And it was just another thing because I was politics because of my name. They made me wear girl shoes in a shoe store, go in and act like I was gay in a Bed, Bath and beyond to get a man to lay in bed with me. And I told Scott this.

Scott didn’t even know. And he says, dude, I really apologize. They put you through the wringer. But to answer the question, you get called, hey, there’s a case in, you know, Laguna beach, whatever, guys looking for money, launderer. Do you think you could do it? And that’s how it happens. That’s how it goes. That’s how it happens. It’s funny. I had an undercover investigation on me. They were trying to prove organized crime to infiltration into boxing, right. It was me and Don King, and I had an undercover agent, Victor Quintana. His name was. His real name was Guerrero Quintana, who posed as a.

A South American drug dealer, right. Who had cleaned up his act, had a lot of money, and now wanted to get into the. The fight business. And I was running for eight months and we became good friends. Actually liked the guy. And, you know, I’ll tell you what he did. My brother had a drug problem, and my brother was trying to do some drug business at the time. He came to me and told me, you know, and he said, listen, your brother’s going to get himself in trouble. And I mean, he was like a friend, you know, he really meant it.

And I gotta just relay this because you’ll probably relate to the way we think on the street. I didn’t know he was undercover. Right. They had to close the investigation because if you remember, Boom Boom Mancini, when he fought and he killed that guy in the ring. Yeah. Dooku Kim, right? Yes. The FBI got concerned and said, hey, we can’t let something like that happen. We have to close down the investigation. So they closed it after almost a year. I don’t see him again. I’m on trial with Giuliani and I find out that he’s an undercover agent and he’s going to be testifying against me.

But here’s what happened. Donnie, he went on the stand and he told the exact truth. He said, I got Michael on tape 83 times. He never said anything that I could indict him for. He was just told the absolute truth. And I was standing there because my thinking at that time was, agents, they’re going to lie all the time. They’re going to put us in trouble. And I believe that I got acquitted because of his testimony. Right. I really mean that. So my point is, you could really bond with an undercover agent if they’re good. And I’m like, Donnie was.

And my Joe Wise, I should say. I mean, you can really bond. Well, I can. We’re friends now, by the way. He and I are friends. I can tell you this. And and we can have whatever conversations you want to have with me, because I’m. It’s an open book, you know, legit. There’s. There’s undercover work, and there’s making friends with guys when they don’t know who you are. And then there’s relationships you build with confidential sources. And I’ve always considered working with a confidential source a little bit more. I don’t want to say it’s higher level, but yet you get to know them, you know their family, you know their issues.

You’re. You’re sending them like a hunting dog out into the woods to find the rabbits, to find the. Whatever it is. They don’t have any cavalry coming after them. They’re doing this now. Some of these guys, they turn over because, hey, they don’t want to go to jail. That’s fine. You got guys that are doing it because they need the money. That’s fine, too. And then you got guys that really love the idea of they turned a new leaf. They didn’t get caught. They hear stuff and they’re like, hey, I don’t want to be involved with this stuff anymore.

And they want to help law enforcement because they know it’s the right thing to do. And I can tell you, I can say this now. After being retired, I had relationships with confidential sources that the Bureau would absolutely frown on. I mean, actually not frown on. It was against bureau policy, not against the law. But it has to be hard, you know, when you get to know somebody, get to know their families. I had here. I can tell you this, the truth. I’ve had guys and their families to my house for Thanksgiving. I knew they didn’t have anybody.

Their kids. I knew a guy, this one guy, he was going away for, I think he did seven years. He got back out, he had to do another six or seven because he got jammed up again. I had him and his little boys to my house in the backyard. We had a swing. My son Donnie was there, and he doesn’t remember because he were 3, 4, 5, 6 years old. And I let him play in the backyard. And so these people are willing to give up basically their life and their freedom. They lose everything. They lose it all.

Their reputation. Yeah. I mean, I asked Joe, I said, joe, that one scene when you were at Lefty and his son had overdosed or something, he was in the hospital, you know, in the movie, you really had feeling for the guy, right? And. Right. And Joe said, yeah, I did. Yeah. But he always said, but I’m still an FBI agent. I Still have to do my job. It comes first. And I get it. You know, I, I had somebody, Sammy Gravano, he was like, I mean, this is ironic. He said to me, how could you be friends with Joe Pistone? Do you know what he did? That’s coming from Sammy.

Right? I said, joe, Sammy, he did his job. I said, the problem with guys don’t. He did his job better than we did our job. Right. So what do you meant him for? Right. That was his job. Right. Know, we should, if we anything, we should have figured it out or did a little bit more homework. But you know, I, look, I would always say to somebody, I remember my dad, we, we said the same time, look, we understand if you’re doing your job and if you get us, fine, just don’t frame us and don’t harass our family.

Right? Right. That’s all we ever said. Right. And that’s, that’s, that’s the problem where I think the perception of society and people think that, that we would do that. No, you see. But see, Donnie, that’s when a guy like Comey, who we know would step over the line. A guy like Weitzman, you know, he was an FBI agent, but he was a prosecutor. These guys just, it’s like they have no ethics about them. There’s a different set of rules and it’s the truth. And I always tell people because I get asked the questions about what it was like and what do you think about this? If you look at, look at that.

What I gave you. Justice is blind, but justice isn’t deaf and dumb. And with some of those things, what’s happened with the politicians and things that have happened, they’ve closed their ears and their eyes. And also the things that we’re supposed to protect and how, how hard is it to keep politics out of an agency like the FBI that’s supposed to be non political in any way, shape or. Well, there’s. How hard is it? You, you have you familiar with the Hatch Act? Yes. So literally when I’ll use Biden, so I won’t use Trump, so I don’t want to be biased in any way.

If I had a hat that said Biden, go vote for Biden or whatever, even while he was president, that’s a violation of the Hatch act because I’m a federal employee and I can’t show that I’m biased towards one side or the other. Did that happen? Absolutely not. People very comfortable with one side of the aisle talking about things and being. But if you’re on the other side of the aisle, you would never have something on that you supported Trump or anything. Even though every federal building is pictures there. So it’s sort of a weird thing, but keeping politics out is I still have lots of friends that are there and not everyone are.

I don’t want to say they’re not God and country. Their view of God and country is a little bit different than mine. And the oath that we take, justice is blind and it’s unfortunate. We’re people. So emotions get in it. So if the law isn’t followed for you, for me, for whomever, the same exact way, there’s a problem. And that’s, I think where we are, a lot of things now are a problem. Let me ask you this. I mean the FBI, the Department of justice, they have so many weapons and tools to go after people effectively.

How do you feel about. And I’m going to relate this to my dad. My dad, you know, did 50 years for a crime he didn’t commit. And Donnie, I’ll take that to my grave. I went to jail for a crime I was guilty of. And no question, my dad did a lot of bad things in that life, no question. But I always maintained a position that, listen, you can’t get somebody for what they didn’t do. You got to get them for what they did. And if you allow the government or the Department of Justice, the FBI, to break the law, to go out and get law abiding, I mean to, to go out and get the offenders, well, if they do it to one group, they can do it to anybody.

And so I always maintain, listen, get us honestly, get them honestly. You’re not okay to break the law because if you do that, then you’re going to do it continuously. Right. And where do we go at that point? How do you feel about that? I think I know that’s the point. We are, right now, the truth is, is that there are things that are visible because of the Internet, because of just, just the way society is right now, that nobody trusts anyone anymore. And we used to be, the FBI, used to be the bastion of truth when we were even.

Today, if you go in and you talk to a local cop, maybe an older guy, we were always straight laced, suit and tie. Those guys don’t mess around stiff lipped, you know, only the facts, ma’. Am. And we’ve gotten, we’ve gotten away from that because we, we have allowed, the bureau has allowed opinions, we’ve allowed some of the things that have creeped into the world into our Halls of justice and the emotions of some of the, the things that, that, that the. I don’t want to say Democrat. I don’t want to say, I don’t want to say anything.

But the conservative. Our country was founded on Judeo Christian values. Absolutely. So how do you have a country that is founded on Judeo Christian values that wants to accept things that do not align with that? Judeo Christian values aren’t the Constitution, but they were the basis for the Constitution. A lot of people, and people are ignorant to that fact. And they’re not only ignorant, they deny it because it feels good. And it’s. We’re in a feel good. It does not feel good to go to jail. I’m sure it’s not. No. And not for nothing, I wasn’t locked up for too long, but I also was handcuffed and shackled and put in a prison van and did an undercover job like that.

And I know what it was like for a day. I can’t imagine what it’s like. I wouldn’t want to lose my freedom for anything. And it’s just we’re shackled by some things that we shouldn’t be shackled by, you know, not being able to speak your mind and not your mind. But what’s the, what’s the. There was an old thing like say, speak the truth in love. Right. And there really is. Nobody knows what love is anymore. Nobody knows what respect is. But don’t you think it all starts with leadership? I mean, if you have, you have strong leadership at the top and, you know, it’s, it’s like I say often, all of these things that are happening today in society, it’s really because our leaders, all this hate, you know, it trickles down to the bottom of people that are a little unbalanced, stop putting guns in their hands and thinks that they have to crazy stuff.

But it’s all leadership. We have a dearth of leadership, hopefully. Now, look, I’m an outspoken Trump supporter because I support his policy agendas, right. You know, people. Oh, Michael, you’re in his pocket. What do you mean in his pocket? I’m 74 years old. What, what is. Trump is not going to do anything for me and I’m not going to. He doesn’t need me. Right. And fortunately, I’m okay. But I do need him to take care of my country properly so that my kids and grandchildren can grow up fine. That’s all I care about. But I mean, we have, there is a dearth of real lead.

I’ve, you Know what, Donnie? In my whole life, I never thought I would witness some of the things that I’m seeing today. Doesn’t come into your mind? No, it’s. You don’t even think. How could you ever think. Even think this way? It’s crazy. But I don’t know, you know, I hope it straightens out. Let me. Let me ask you, the FBI today, how do you feel about Cash Patel? Dan Bongino, we already spoke about. You know, I. I know him. He’s. I think he’s a great guy. Good guy with a lot of integrity. I like what I see from Cash Patel.

You know what I like? I watch them in front of these Senate, these hearings. That. And he speaks up. He’s not afraid. He talks back. He doesn’t get bullied. You know, and I like that because sometimes these people in Congress, they try to trip you up. They bully you. They do. You know, it’s a big dog and punny show, but he stands up. And so does what’s her name for. Bondi. Yeah, Bondi. Oh, yeah. And they should. They should get bullied by these people in Congress. They’re sharp. Yeah. What I like about them is they’re sharp.

And when you flip the sword on the. Someone who’s got the sword at you and they don’t like it, and that’s really what happens. They don’t. Not that they don’t like them as people. They don’t like that they understand the game. They see the game, they see the cards, and they flip them over and they’re upset with it. Yeah. And you ask about Cash Patel and Bongino and those guys. Even Pam Bondi. I wouldn’t want those jobs for. For all the tea in China, literally. If I think they all were doing pretty good before they took these jobs.

Hmm. Just like Trump. Here’s a guy, he didn’t need the money. His family didn’t need the money, even. I told you about me coming on here and exposing sort of my life, my relationship. If you don’t need the money and you don’t need the notoriety, you’re already somebody who’s recognizable, and you’re doing a pretty. Pretty good job in life. Why would you do it then? So is your ego that big? Are you that dumb or do you care? I tend to think these folks care. They care. And somebody taps you on the shoulder like the President of the United States.

If you don’t like them, but you’re aligned with the values, you’re jumping at the chance to do that. And I think that they. They talked a huge game. Cash, Patel, Bondi, Bongino. There was a bastion of these. These people that were private citizens at that point, even though Cash was a. He was a prosecutor and Pam Bondi as well. But I think that they were given the opportunity and they knew somebody had their back. Yes, and the President has their back, but on the other side of that, they don’t owe him anything. He can’t keep you in that job.

You’re at the pleasure of the President, and those are tough things to do. Like you said, I don’t wish it on anyone, but I’m glad that there are people that are willing to step up and not go against the grain, just go against the falseness, the things that are misunderstood, that are mixed up by people who want to mix people up and divide and conquer. Let me ask you this. Do you think there are forces at work? And I’m going to bring this to the whole Epstein matter. I just recently did a video, probably dropped next week, of.

Of the investigation into Epstein’s death. Alleged suicide. Right. I have to set this up. I spent a lot of time in that same cell on that tier right in. In Manhattan. I don’t believe there’s any way you could have committed suicide. I just don’t believe it. And nobody’s going to convince me of that. I recently saw there was an article about how badly that investigation was botched by the FBI, who’s practically right across the street. Took seven hours to get to the cell. Now, I don’t know if they weren’t called for, you know, several hours later, or they were called and they just didn’t come over.

But if you see the crime scene, it was terribly botched. And what I’m thinking, you know, we have all this stuff about Epstein being a Mossad agent and all this kind of stuff. I absolutely, just from what we’re seeing, have to believe that there was sinister forces at work with Epstein, that he had. He had dirt on a lot of people. Is there another force, a sinister force that can tell the FBI, the Department of justice, even the President, United States, and this is just from your perspective, hey, this is what you need to do. Keep your mouth shut or don’t do this or do that.

Is there somebody pulling strings? Do you. Do you believe that that’s possible in a country like the United States? You would think absolutely not. But the last office that I was in, Federal Detention center, was right across the street, and we had an agent that worked those crimes. Anything that happened inside the Prison. Those guys that had relationship with the warden, the. Is it a block captain? Is that whoever. Is that the lieutenant? Yeah, so. And we had a guy, I mean, I had a really good friend of mine that was acting warden. A lot of times, man, if something happened like this, if they knew there was something of interest, you’re running across the street, I mean, they’re opening the door for you, you’re going in.

So I hate to say again, my opinion is like yours. I mean, you see what you see. I wasn’t there. All I can tell you is that in my opinion, if they don’t want something to happen and they want to look the other way, they could do it. They do it. But a guy like this is so high profile. Why, who would want to risk their reputation? I mean, you’re talking about major careers. One guy can’t do it. How do you keep all you were in the life. I love to throw that out there. Or we had the life too.

Who in the world would make a phone call? And how do you keep all those people quiet? That’s the question asking me the question. My opinion is good, but how could you keep all those people quiet? Right. That’s a bigger question. Because you believe it’s true. I believe that if you know a guy has, or a guy or girl has suicidal tendencies or there’s. This is a serious deal, we need to get to this guy. They’d have 40 people around. This guy’s not going to go to the bathroom without somebody assisting him or her. So it’s really odd to think that they’re going to give some extra special treatment or freedoms or something to let this happen.

It’s hard to believe. Yeah. Well, listen, spending time on that cell, I would tell people, you know, at times it all depends. Sometimes you had bars, sometimes you had a steel door with a flap. But I mean, it was constant war and I was never under. Suicide. Right. But constantly between the cameras and the people walking, it was annoying. And it’s a different era now. I mean, you realize back then when you were there, it’s probably 30 years ago. Yeah. So now, I mean, and especially the way things are, these guys know who this, this guy is so high profile.

Right. So. And apparently he was probably a pretty nice guy. He got a lot of people to come to his island, paid for some things, whatever. But guards make friends with guys too because they’re looking for information. Well, why do you, why do you think we, we can’t get any information. I mean, look, it’s apparent that There was tons of video that this guy had on. Right. We can’t see the video. And I understand. Well, we don’t want to put the innocent women. Well, you blur them out. You know, they have the technology to do that, but there’s no question that they’re hiding this stuff.

Why would they do that? Why did they not? It has to be, again, just from an. I don’t have any inside information. Right, None. I want to make that clear. But there has to be some reason that either there are very important people involved that have a lot of weight and are able to keep this undercover. And that’s what I think the American people. That’s what they’re yelling about. And I will say this. You know, all the Trump haters out there are claiming Trump is doing. Trump’s not doing this. This investigation happened. I mean, the Biden had all this stuff, too, right? This.

There’s something more involved. It’s not about Trump, in my opinion. Well, you just said the Biden thing. You want to go back to him with the cocaine. Yeah. That to me, is more than Epstein. Epstein’s behind bars. This is. Somebody was in the White. Either they’re coming out of the White House or in the White House and they don’t have. Are you kidding me? We get pee tested. They’d call you on the phone and say, hey, look, come in now, wherever you are. So is that totally absurd to you that there’s cocaine in the White House and they don’t know anything about it? It’s absurd.

It’s absurd. In 30 seconds, they would, you know, they’ll ping everybody who was in this building at that time. Where were their phones pinging at this point? It’s absurd. It’s absurd how that was overlooked. So again, if you could overlook that, you chose to overlook that. It’s. It’s a slippery slope. It is. And it’s not slippery. It’s decisive. It was specific, and the world just didn’t care. And I think going back to you, asking who and why and what our laws were made to protect an innocent guy from not going to jail. They’ll let a thousand guys go that are dirty so the one guy doesn’t go to jail, that’s really what happened.

Now the laws have switched to, wait a second, we’re going to push this guy over here, but we’re going to let these guys go. It’s. Everything’s backwards. It’s backwards. It’s not protect the innocent anymore. No, it’s not. And that’s why I Am totally against the death penalty. It’s because they make mistakes, whether intentionally or not. When 200 people are released from death row because of DNA, if you’re going to kill one innocent person, then the whole thing is wrong. You can’t do it. So that’s why I’m against the death penalty for that. Re. And life in prison in solitary is not a bowl of cherries, believe me.

You know, So I think people think, oh, he’s still alive. I spent three, almost three years in solitary. I don’t want to live my life that way. Put me to sleep if I had to do that. But people don’t realize that, you know. No, but, no, you’re right. The system is for. It’s not for one person. It’s for everybody. Right. The general population. But do you think the way things are trending. I know the FBI has been under a lot of controversy over the past couple of years. The way it’s trending, you think it’s going to get back to.

The FBI is the elite law enforcement agency in the world, no question. But it’s been faltering a lot. Do you think it’s going to get back to where it should be? I think the old saying that it’s got to get worse before it gets better, I think that unfortunately, President Trump, the things that he does towards, whether it’s agents, whether it’s prosecutors, whomever it is, it seems like it’s retaliation. It seems like it’s, you did this to me, I’m going to do it to you if it’s valid. It’s not that I’m going to do it to you.

I’m just going to uphold the same laws and apply the same things that you made me accountable for that I was either proven guilty or innocent of on you. And I think that it’s going to get worse. I think, honestly, I would have thought by now that we would have heard more with this transparency stuff with Kash Patel and Bongino and them about who was fired. Why is it legitimate or not? I don’t want anybody to get fired if they shouldn’t. But if I signed off on something against Michael Franzes, that goes against the Constitution and my job and my responsibility to uphold the Constitution, I should pay the penalty, whatever that penalty is, lose your job, whatever it is, and then it should trickle down.

And I think that we started at the wrong way. I think everybody looks at. There were guys, street agents, that were told to do things or not overlook something or don’t show up, whatever I’m sure there were. They didn’t know why, but they did it because you. Chain of command. And it’s a lot more, it’s a lot more detailed than what? How do you run the country? How do you run the FBI? How do you run these organizations that are bigger than they ever were, down to like the minutiae of five or 10 or 15 people? I think the majority FBI agents and the people that work for the Bureau are good, honest people.

But honestly, it’s not the wor, it’s the leadership. Right. And you’re only as the. Who’s responsible in the end. President of the company. They don’t go to the guy that’s putting the apples together who let the worm go through. It’s the guy at the top. And it’s. But, you know, don’t you feel that. I mean, with Trump, anything he does, I mean, they’re gonna call it revenge. To me, it’s accountability. Because how do you put a stop to it if people are never held accountable? I mean, the people that, with the dossier and all of that, and they knew it was false and all this Russia, Russia stuff, how do you not hold those people accountable? They hold, they hold the whole country hostage.

They hold a president hostage over something that was totally false and people should just walk away. And so too bad, you know, didn’t work. But didn’t. No skin off on it. We’re not going to do it to you. Don’t worry. You’re okay. Yeah. I mean, these people have to be held accountable. So they know that you can’t get away with this kind of stuff. And that’s, unfortunately, that’s, that’s where we are. It’s, it’s the accountability thing. And I, I can’t do it. You can’t do it. But the leaders at the Bureau, the leaders of the doj, it’s a huge job.

It’s, it’s, it’s no joke. And the trust from the American people has been lost. They need to reassure us. And if they reassure us by doing things that are tough and difficult, then that’s what they need to do. Yeah, well, the problem is that people on the opposite side just keep, you know, degenerating everything that they’re trying to do. And then the people on the street listen to that. Well, that’s not really, you know, the FBI is bad, you know, and the Department of Justice is bad and ICE is bad, and all of this is bad.

And so when they hear that, they think that it’s corrupt. Even though they’re trying to clean it up because they’re making you think that it’s corrupt. Well, if you only watch one channel, if you only listen to. To you listen to me, whoever. You’re only going to get my opinion. You could say it’s filtered by all the other things you do and you listen to, but still it’s your opinion. Yeah. And you have to know all. All sides of the equation. And most people don’t because it takes too much time. We’re in the swipe world. They don’t care.

You know what, too, Donnie? It’s normal people, you know, especially in this economy, in this environment, what are they doing? They’re working, you know, they’re taking care of this family. Some people working two jobs, they don’t have the luxury, like myself, my wife and you do, to sit down and watch the news, you know, maybe for an hour or two hours a day. They don’t know. Right. So somebody gets up, they hear, oh, yeah, I’m a Democrat. I may as well keep voting that way. I’m a Republican. They don’t really know what’s going on. Right. You know, and I feel for those people because they don’t understand.

They’re ignorant. And I don’t mean that in a demeaning way. They’re just ignorant of what’s really happening. They don’t want to know. Yeah. Because they don’t have the time. I’m going to be. It wasn’t until maybe 10, 12 years ago that I started really paying attention. You know, I did some things with guys on the street and all, but really started paying attention. Then I said, wow, I thought things were a little dicey when I was on the street, but look what’s happening now. You know, it’s crazy, but look, you know, we gotta hope whoever is in power, you know, whether it be Trump now for the next three years, that he can get it to a point where, okay, we have a lot of respect again for the FBI because I think it’s at an all time low.

Department of justice, too. All time low. And I think it’s being fueled by people on the other side that don’t want people to get an impression that these agencies are doing the right job. They don’t want people to think that because that hurts their position. Right. And that’s what you have going against you in the FBI or the Department of Justice. Well, people are in fear of being shamed for having an opinion or questioning the status quo. And when you get it like that, like Nobody. You don’t want anybody knocking at your door because you have an opposing opinion of something that’s going on.

You want to actually be able to say what you say with facts and get the truth out. And the old saying, they don’t want, they can’t handle. People can’t handle the truth. It’s like, it’s like the thing when you’re fat, you can’t handle the truth, right? Yeah, but they can’t handle the truth. And sometimes somebody, even myself, we don’t like to handle the truth. Sometimes you’re doing things, you’re thinking things, you’re acting a certain way. That’s human nature. But absolutely right, that’s human nature. So you got to go back to the common sense part about, I want to protect my own.

You want to protect your family, you want to safety, security, get out of my pocket. Does anybody, I don’t care if you’re on welfare. Do you want anybody taking your stamps away from you? No. If you’re humping out there at the gas station, you don’t want, you don’t want anyone taking what’s not theirs. I agree. Listen, you know, I tell people too, you know, this country is 36 or 37 trillion dollars in date in debt. You didn’t do that. I didn’t do that. It’s the irresponsible people that are running our government that put us in debt and then coming back to us for more to say, you help us clean up the mess that we created by you spending more money on it.

Well, how come you, well, how come you never see how politicians vote? Before the election should come out, it should be the 42 guy, whoever is going up to get voted on. Okay, we had this. It was abortion, it was this, it was this, it was this, it was this, it was this. How did they vote and how did they campaign? Nobody knows. And if you’re, if you got the keys that, if you have the keys to the kingdom, you don’t want people to know that. You just want them to tell them the story they want to hear to keep voting for you.

And not only that, you know, we’re in a government shutdown and there’s certain agencies that are not getting paid. Like, how do you not pay TSA agents and air traffic controllers, you know, too vital in my opinion. They’re vital. And you Senate get paid, Congress gets paid beyond. They caused the shutdown and they’re getting paid. Right. But it’s the, it goes back to the blame. It’s, it’s the blame. It’s the. It’s always been a blame game. Right, left, center, it doesn’t matter. But shouldn’t they all agree and say, listen, if we’re going to cause a shutdown, we’re not going to get paid? There wouldn’t be any shutdowns.

True, but that’s common sense. Common sense will not. You asked about common sense. When common sense comes back, that’s when you’ll have it. And it’s not that common. Let me ask you this. Are you. How familiar or how. How closely have you followed the whole Charlie Kirk assassination? I followed it a lot. A lot. And I only. Maybe in the past three or four or five, six months, really started watching him and listening to him. You want to talk about Bright? Yeah. A horrible thing would happen. If you go online now and you go on the Internet, social media, all of these influencers now have all of a sudden become detectives, investigators, and they’re tearing this apart, going through the video, tearing this apart, saying that, you know, Israel is behind this because Charlie Kirk was, you know, starting to go against Israel.

And I’m just summarizing, looks like, again, from an outside look, it looks like that they didn’t do a complete investigation of the crime scene. And I asked my, well, why not? I mean, there’s a guy that just got killed. Why didn’t you have the yellow tape around? Why didn’t you. You freeze everything like you normally do in a crime scene, so it leads you to believe, even though you don’t want to, that there’s something sinister going on. And it’s things like this that make people believe. And then, of course, it’s fueled by these. Half of them, I don’t even pay attention to these amateur sleuths now that become, you know, want to be FBI agents that are trying to prove the crime.

What do you. What is your whole opinion? I’ve watched a lot of the things that, what you’re talking about, and in the beginning, I didn’t even think about it, that there’s a conspiracy. He was a friend of Israel. There’s. There’s no doubt he was not against it. I don’t believe that in the least. Well, not to a degree where maybe he was changing a little bit of an opinion, but not to a degree where they’re going to kill him. No, you’re not that influential. I have to tell you, I was a counselor at the FBI Academy for the National Academy, and it’s the highest level of law enforcement all over the world.

They get a slot to come to this academy to learn the FBI’s method of investigation, to take college courses to help further their career. It’s the who’s who. Anyone that’s a lieutenant or better, their goal is to go to the FBI’s National Academy. I was there the year before I left. And they had a guy come in with a technology, and you’re talking. This was like 2021. 20, 20, 2021. There was a prison guard that they showed this thing about. This prison guard attacked an inmate. This guy lost his job two or three years. He went.

I don’t know if he was still out of jail. He’s getting ready to get sentenced to go to jail. Somehow there was a technology that was out that his attorney found, and they were able to analyze the tapes. Now, here you go. You want to talk about Epstein? There were videotapes, or, you know, video of the cell area where the intake, I think it was. And it looked like he did. You were like, ah, close closed case. He. He attacked the guy. It’s incredibly expensive. Nobody has it very select. Few people know it even existed. This is three years ago, four years ago, when they played it at a certain speed, at a certain angle, and I don’t even remember because I don’t understand it.

You could see that the guy had a shiv. He had something in his hand, and he attacked the guard, at the guard, and the guard was defending himself. And when I saw that. You want to talk about conspiracy now? This is something I saw with my own eyes. It was being taught. It was being showed that this technology was incredibly expensive. I don’t know what it is. Now, you won’t trust anything. Any video you ever see, you’ll never trust. If you saw this, I’m telling you, you would have believed beyond a shadow of a doubt, which they did, that this guard had attacked this guy, and he didn’t.

Yeah. Look, so if they had it, then we have technology beyond that you can even fathom. Let me ask you, and this is totally subjective on your part, just an opinion. You believe that the FBI would cover up the real cause of the assassination of Charlie Kirk because Israel was involved, and Israel had this done, and Israel now controls America in some way. Do you believe any of that? Not. Not at all. And. And you’ve looked at. You’ve watched the video. I’ve watched so many videos. I’ve watched so many things that I. To the point where I was nauseated looking at it.

And I really do think again. I go back to this. I reverse the Question to you. How many people. How could you keep that many people quiet in this day and age? How? That’s what I say. Could they do it? Sure, you can do anything you want. You’re corrupt. You can do what you want. You’ve got the keys to the kingdom. You got the keys to the audio, the video, whatever. You could do whatever you want. But how many people can you. One guy can’t do it. And as weak as people are today, I think that they’re strong enough not to be that weak, to realize, holy crap, there’s no way I want to be involved in this.

I mean, they’re going to the point where text messages between the alleged killer and his girlfriend, boyfriend, whatever that was, they were created. They’re not real text. And you know, the FBI, I got to tell you, law enforcement has a tough job today because everything that’s out there on social media, people are dissecting and questioning everything that the agency does or everything that the bureau does. Right. You know, because of they’re becoming alleged detectives online or investigators or whatever. So I think your job in the FBI becomes even twice as hard and 10 times as hard as it was.

Transparency part, there’s some things that people shouldn’t know about. First of all, techniques investigate. But. But there are techniques that people know that exist just because of AI so they realize there are things out there that are out of your understanding, out of your control, and they’re. They’re. There are tools that the FBI, law enforcement, have at their disposal. So if you know these things exist, you can be a little bit more transparent. I think that there’s a fine line between giving things up and being transparent, because people would like to know and to have a conspiracy that big would be.

I think it would be really outlandish. And you’re saying that not only, you know, as a. As a layman, but as your experience in the FBI for 20 years, it would be very difficult. I just can’t imagine it. I mean, we had. I mean, like I said, I worked. I hate doing the eye. We have support at the FBI, and it’s just amazing. And I’ve worked so many violations as a case agent, as an undercover agent, that I’ve seen so much that there’s things that I can filter out knowing that I can’t imagine that you could get 10 guys, 15 people to lie about something that’s that grandiose that are going to cover up for what.

I just can’t imagine. You’re never going to get another job. Right. I Mean you’re done, you’re cooked. So being fired is one thing that’s huge. If you’re good and something happens, you’re afforded to resign and then you could get another job somewhere. But to put your talk, these are things that are major. Fired, go to jail. Our biggest thing was lack of candor. Lack of candor, you’re fired. Period. Really, Period. Really strict with that. Oh, yeah, lack of candor is, period. When you go through, when you become an agent, you get this whole background thing that happens.

But 50%, and this is two or three years ago, I know this to be a fact, two or three years ago, 50% of all applicants, master’s degree, military, law enforcement, whatever, the highest. You could be the highest graduating class of whatever and accomplished. They lie on the polygraph. And I can tell you this. They as a guy who took the polygraph and the guy told me, hey. He goes, hey, what are you Catholic or what do you think you’re talking to the priest? Because you kept telling me things. I said, well, I wanted to be honest with you.

I don’t want, I don’t want you to think I’m lying about anything. And 50% get booted because of lack of candor. Really? And you do not. We have. We have. It was strict. And again, I can only talk to three years ago, but I have friends that are still there. When you go through the application process, if you fail the preliminary part, there’s an interview and there’s a writing thing and some tests that you do. If you fail that part, you can come back and try. But if you don’t pass the polygraph, you. You’re done. So the good thing, you have at least everybody that’s gotten through at that point passed the polygraph.

But on the other side, because I. People talk about things and I can’t really remember all the names of them. TS SCI Gamma. There’s four levels that are above top secret clearance. Everybody gets top secret secretaries that support personnel. But there’s SCI Gamma. And there’s. I think there’s another one. And I had all of those. So when you have those, guess what, you get a phone call, hey, come into the office, and you get drug tested. Boom. No questions. No I may follow you into the bathroom. And is that because they’re always checking on those security clearances? Exactly, exactly.

So we deal with that. But. And you get random and you get polygraph too. There used to be a five year, it was mandatory. You didn’t know when it was going to happen. So maybe Something’s happening at home. Maybe you screwed up or something. Whatever. Again, it goes back to, we had a few bad agents, so the rest of us are screwed because we generally hire great, great people. Donnie, you want to know some of this is going to sound crazy to you, but after even now, meeting you and Joe Pistone and a couple of agents, I’ve made a lot of friends with agents or retired agents.

I take it personal for a guy like Comey to give the agency a bad name, because I want the agency. I want the FBI to be the elite agency, and I want them to do their job. Trust it. Yeah, we want it. Trust. We love trust. Yeah. It isn’t like before. All agents lie. When I was on the street, it was different. But I’ve come to the realization, got smart, you know, got wise, got whatever, that I get personally offended when. When they’re doing something that’s going to besmirch the FBI because the FBI should be the premier agency in the world.

No doubt. I. I wrote. So in my manuscript, I wrote 59 vignettes, starting from when my dad’s relationship with Joe, my relationship. Wait a minute. Let me. Let me set this up for people to know. You. You now have written your manuscript on your life. 300 pages. Yes, continue. But what is it going to focus on? So, basically, what it focuses on is really love of family, love a country, love of the FBI, truth, justice, the American way, and a kid who followed in the footsteps of the greatest undercover agent to become an undercover agent, just like he.

It’s really the. It’s the story. Have you seen the other one with Al Pacino, the Recruit, Colin Farrell, he plays. I know the movie, but I haven’t seen it. No, this. This was just a random movie about a guy that they thought would be good, and he recruits him all the way up. Well, I am the recruit. I didn’t know that I was being recruited, but it’s in my blood, it’s in my DNA, whatever it is, to become what Joe became. Different level, different things. I worked a lot of different things than he ever did. It’s.

Have you ever seen Black Mass? Yes. Okay. So I’m. You know, I’m working undercover while Joe’s a retired agent, and I’d call him for advice and ask him questions, and I’m working the job. I mean, I’m. I did two. I did two or three jobs that I was gone for two years. One for a year, really. A couple for six months. So, I mean, I. When you say gone away from Your wife away from your family? No contact? No. Well, not no contact. We had minimal contact. Minimal contact, yeah. But no. No badge, no credentials, no gun, and nothing.

Just in another alias. And you’re living. You’re living this other guy. And you could have get locked up, thrown in jail. Oh, yeah, I was. I did job. I did jobs overseas that. That. Oh, yeah, they were. Yeah, it was. It was a lot of hairy stuff. A lot of hairy stuff. Really, Dice? And you’re not in the States. And what was I saying? I can’t even remember. You were asking about your manuscript. Oh, yeah. So I wrote. I wrote the manuscript about. About what it was like being Donnie Brasco. I mean, he was undercover, but he.

When he was done in six. When he was done in six years, he became his new identity. Right. I’ve been Donnie Brasco since you had to live with Donnie Brasco today. And he doesn’t have to. He doesn’t have to. So I’m really the longest running undercover agent. Yeah, until now. But it was. It was the whole. I. I’ve totally lost my train of thought. Michael, help me. No, just on the book and what you were focusing on and what the book was really. What the book is really about. Really about. I mean, I did undercover job.

I was working the job when Joe was mentioned. You’re not a rat, are you? To me, and here I am. Donnie Brasco, right? The real Donnie Brasco. Who asked you that? I was working a case. And you could look this up? Anybody can look it up. It was Operation Black Eagle, and it was a big case. It was. It started in Newark, and it was Russian, Baltic states. Organized crime kind of stuff. Disorganized crime. They weren’t organized crime, but these are guys were selling anything they could. We bought drugs, heroin, mdma, illegal cigarettes, money laundering, you name it.

And I’m sitting in a bar restaurant with a guy who just got out. We had made a relationship with him. He just got out doing 12 years for heroin. Using a different name, right? Oh, yeah. No, no. I was fully undercover, just like Joe was me, I was somebody else. And so we’re sitting closer than you and I. I mean, my other undercover, Nick was super undercover agent. Guy looks over and he says, you know, I hate rats. Nikki and I look at each other and, oh, yeah, we hate him too. So what’s your point? He goes, well, you know what? Now we’re in.

I don’t know if you know, New Jersey, but we are in. We are in. Next town over from Patterson. You know who’s from Patterson. Yeah. He looks over and he says, you know who the biggest rat was? We’re like, please get this. Where are you going? He goes, donnie Brasco. But me and this other guy look at each other, and we’re like, yeah, yeah, so what? Believe it or not, we’re like, holy crap. You got to be kidding me. Yeah. He goes, guess what? He’s from the next town over. And I. I looked at the other guy.

I said, well, yeah, you got his address. Meanwhile, I know his address because I’ve been there 50 times, right? And of course, he had moved out by the time. And we look at each other like, oh, my God, you can’t. You got to be kidding me. And he knew where Joe was from. And he’s asking me, who is Donnie Brasco? Telling me, are you a rat? And he was the rat. It was just. It’s hard to believe. And in the same case you mentioned Lefty. Same case, totally different guys. They don’t even know each other. We’ve got video and audio.

Our apartment was all mic’d up, whatever. And we’ve got this meeting. We got undercovers from Miami, from D.C. and Nick and I were the. He was originally the primary. They bring me in because Nikki had a couple of problems. They thought that he was going to have an issue, policy issue with the bureau. Great agent, but he had a policy problem. They thought, hey, this guy gets out, we need somebody else. They bring me in, so I’m going to be the new number one guy. Turned out, things got polished up a little bit, and he was able to stay, and we stayed together.

We’re having this meeting about shipping. I don’t know. It was 400 kilos of coke from Jersey to Florida. And I was the Florida guy, and I was in town, and the one guy says, hey, tell these guys who you were in jail with. And we’re like, ah, you know what? We want to go home. Like, go ahead, tell us a story here. He was Lefty’s dental hygienist. And he mentions. He goes, hey, you know the movie Donnie Brasco? He goes, I was Lefties, Lefty, Two Guns. He goes, two guns for Jerry. I’m like, who was that? You know, never heard of it.

And, you know, so it was just a. It was always a surreal experience because the impact that he made. And here I am undercover, doing the same thing to some guys, unknowing that he did. Yeah. And. And it was just the. The whole thing was. And that’s what I wrote about. I wrote about Being me. If. If he was. If he was Michael Franzes and an undercover agent, it wouldn’t have mattered. I wanted to be him. Then I find out that he uses my name, our family name, as an undercover. It doesn’t stop me. It fuels me.

And how I got hazed in the. In the FBI academy the third day in didn’t stop me. I called Joe on the phone. Some guy sees my name plate, and he was an instructor, and he says, he looks, there’s like, there’s 50 people other agents knew. And, you know, your name plates are on your thing. You get your shirt and tie. And he goes, ah. He goes, I know the real Donnie Brasco. I was like, oh, really? Now? The whole place, I don’t know any of these people. Half them don’t really know who I am either.

And he goes, yeah, he’s a real. A hole. He’s full of himself. And he goes this epitaph against Joe to me not knowing that I’m related to him, Right. So everybody’s silent. And I looked at him, and after he’s done, I said, well, you know what? I said, after we’re done, class, I’m going to go to one of those offices. I’m going to give him a call and tell him you send him his regards. Now everybody looks like, holy crap, what’s going on here? I pick up the phone, I call Joe and he goes, you tell that guy I’m going to come there, I’m going to.

I mean, he went right into wise guy mode. Yeah. And you tell him I said, I can’t do that. I’m in school. But I just want to let you know that I don’t think this is going to be easy for me. And it wasn’t. I mean, going through, it was just. It wasn’t easy. But there was nothing that anyone was going to do that was going to stop me. If they told me to jump, I jump high if they told me to, whatever. And it was just an incredible family story and going back to a black mass when I was under, asking Joe questions, I’m undercover, asking him, hey, what should I do here? What did you do there? He would tell me, he’d say, remember John Connolly? John Connolly was the agent that got jammed up and went to jail.

And, man, I mean, you think about that. And he was, I’d have to say, doing what he did and knowing what he was. Quasi. Framed. Yeah. What about De Vecchio? I mean, that’s a tough one. It’s a tough. They’re all tough. Because they’re just tough. I have to tell you something. I have a good friend of mine, his name is Michael Sessa. No problem. But they really. Frank, they really hurt him bad. And it was all the De Vecchio scrap thing. And he’s doing. He’s 33 years in prison. He’s got life. Yeah. And I’m hoping he gets out.

But. But you gotta understand, the Bureau in that era, they wanted the Russians, they want the Mafia, they want. We want. And we want things so bad that they push the agents to the point where you make relationships. Like you said, everything’s about. You can have all the AI you want sooner or later. You joke. This isn’t a joke. It’s a. Sit down. We’re sitting down. We’re having a con. I’ve never met you before. I don’t know how long we’ve been talking, but it’s. It’s a relationship building thing. And he built relationships because God, country, and the job, and it went a little bit too far.

And truthfully, I had a supervisor just superb. He was. He was just after Hoover, and he used to say, hey, look, Donny, if you got a guy that wants to buy you a meal, source somebody you’re trying to, whatever. And this is not undercover, this is me as an agent. Because a lot of guys want to. They want to become friends with you. They want to whatever. Some of it’s legit, some of it. They want to get you on something so they can do it. If they buy you a $50 meal, you buy them a hundred album, so they never have any.

And you document. Yeah, you document. And if you can’t document, you call me on the phone and say, hey, I’m having a dinner with blah, blah, blah. And I just want to, you know, I’ll bring the receipt in. He gave me this, I gave him that. Because you don’t want to turn down, I don’t want to say, gifts from people. I’m a regular guy. You’re a regular guy. I brought you something in there. I don’t want anything from you. It’s a token of my appreciation. And that’s just where it is. And, well, you know, look, Donnie, I hear a lot of time, you know, that the FBI is corrupt and the police department is corrupt.

I said, listen, they’re not corrupt. I said, there is an agency on the face of the planet that doesn’t need reform. The Catholic Church needs reform. The government needs reform. Foundations need reform. I said, you always may find a bad apple. And yes, reform is good. You don’t label the whole agency as being bad because it’s going to happen. It’s going to continue to happen. You’re always going to have a bad egg somewhere along the line. But people just get carried away with that. And then it’s fueled by a. By the rhetoric that you hear and all of that.

Listen, I think most of us want our law enforcement agencies to be what they’re supposed to be and protect us. You know who Jasmine Crockett is, right? Oh, yeah, sure. You know that she made a statement in front of Congress. Not Congress. It was at a hearing. I don’t know if it was a congressional hearing or what, but she got a. And quote, quote, she said, the job of the police department is not to prevent crime, it’s to investigate crimes later on. Yeah. And she was a. She was an attorney or is an attorney. She’s got a law degree.

How do you have somebody like that as a congressperson? Because it’s a popularity thing. It’s not a credibility thing to me. She’s gotta be ousted. She’s immediately disqualified. In other words, when a cop is out there in his uniform, that’s not supposed to be for crime prevention. When they’re. When they’re walking the beat or driving in their patrol cars, they’re supposed to wait until it happens and then investigate. Well, but this is a congresswoman saying. Yeah, she’s not the only one. I know. I mean, she’s not the only one, but look at the pressure that puts on law enforcement agencies.

Well, when I talk to my son, Donnie Jr. Yeah, he. He’s going to have the same. Oh, yeah, well. But guess what, Believe it or not, while we’re here, he’s actually starting a program. He’s a part of the family business, and he’s in a program right now as we speak, trying to learn some of the things that. Okay, is he. Is he going to be going. I don’t know. He’s with another large, large agency. I don’t want to give. Give them up too much. But we were talking and I said, you know, son, he’s met a lot of people now that he’s in the business, so to speak, and who knew me, I’m like, I’m not sure.

Remember that guy? Yeah, this guy do. And they’re like, yeah, dad, they spoke highly of you. And you work this case. And, you know, because my last. My last job that I was in, I was in the Philadelphia area, so, you know, you work with Jersey troopers, Penns Troopers, city guys, I mean, you know, you name it, it’s Alphabet soup. So you forget after 21 years how many people you dealt with. And he’s coming across guys that say, I work with your dad and your dad was a good guy and whatever. And I said, you know, son, there’s a lot of things about the Bureau and law enforcement that need to be taken care of.

And sometimes they can’t be taken care of internally. My worry is a guy like you, whom now I know, that wants to know from a guy on the inside. I don’t want to be a guy that bashes the Bureau, bashes police, bashes the President, Trump, Biden, whoever it is. I want to be a guy that stands for truth, justice in the America way. Not Superman, fake Superman, not Whitey Bulger case and all the fake things that happen. I’m a real guy who was a real FBI agent, who was a real undercover agent, who’s related to the most famous undercover agent, who’s sitting here with a former wise guy.

Why can’t we just tell the truth? I know, right? Why do I have to be fearful of saying something and I shouldn’t be and you shouldn’t be? And to go back to what I said, I get in trouble for being long winded sometimes, but I want people to know that how I feel. I really do. It’s love of God, love of country, love of my family. And my son said, dad, if you don’t say things, how do things get changed if people are too afraid to talk? And so I can’t. It’s hard for me not to pick on the Bureau because I love the Bureau.

I love the Bureau. That was during the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s that were under the Hoover guys. There’s no reason why we can’t be that today. We just have to have people, leadership, like you said, to stand up, be accounted for. And if you’re wrong, people will forgive you. Right? Jasmine Crockett? There’s people that still love her. They overlook that because they love her. Trump can be a. I don’t know what the word is sometimes. He could be an arrogant guy who doesn’t listen. But he loves country. There’s no doubt. He loves his family.

He loves everything that his dad created, he loves. And he wants that, like you said, to be to the next generation, for our kids and grandkids. Well, I could tell you this and we can wrap it up. I wrote a book, Mafia Democracy. And because I see our government system acting so much like we did on the street. You know, sometimes for certain people, it all becomes a question of maintaining power and maintaining control. It’s very Machiavellian. And, you know, I think that we have forces that don’t want to give up power and control, but they’ve taken it to a degree and it’s always been that way.

You want to be in control, you want to be in power, but it’s been taken to a degree where they will destroy, like they did with lawfare and everything. They’ll destroy the opposite agenda, the opposite, you know, person that’s trying to take that away from them. It never went to that level before. When I was growing up, we grew up as a Democrat, our family, mine too. But we weren’t mad at Republicans. We sat down, have dinner. I mean, there wasn’t too much difference between the two parties. You know, one was for the working class, allegedly, one was a little bit more elite, one was more law and order.

The Republicans, Democrats, less. But you still got together. Everybody was having fun. Now it’s my God, it’s like you’re, you’re communist against the Democrat. It’s terrible. What it’s got to. And this is what we have to. We have to try to overcome somehow in this country, this hatred for each other. I heard someone say, and I don’t know who it was, and I would quote them if I could. They said that currently one side would rather rule over a burned down city than to stop the fire. Absolutely. I mean, it’s crazy when you think about that.

It sort of sounds. How hard can you not understand? It’s the truth. They’d rather rule over. Instead stop the fire and take the blame, take whatever it is. They’d rather rule over rubble than. It’s, it’s become that way and it’s obvious and hopefully it’ll turn around. But any. Anyway, Donnie, I. This was a great con. You know what I would love to do? I’d love to have you and Joe Pistone on at the same time. I think that would be, it would be awesome. That would, I would, absolutely. When I, when I started this whole journey of writing my manuscript, I went and got his approval.

He says, yeah, do what you want. Absolutely. And when I started saying, hey, I’m going to get on social media, I’m going to try and promote. I need a literary agent, I need a publicist, I need a publisher to publish the store. Because it’s not just my story, it’s our story. It’s. It’s the story, it’s the UF’s. Government. It’s. It’s our family story. It’s is the FBI story. And I said, you’re going to be 87 years old. I said, I don’t want to tell this without you here. I want you to be able to support. Not support.

I want you to be able to say, yeah, this is. You and I could talk on the same level together. And that’s how I end up doing this. Let’s do this. I’ll talk to him. I think I know where he’s located now. We don’t have to mention. I’ll go see him. I’ll be home. I’ll be. I’ll be back up in. In Florida tomorrow night. I’m going to maybe see him this week. I’ll tell you what. Mention it to him because I come to Florida, you know, on Occas, and we can come down there and we’ll do it, you know, we live barely an hour from each other.

That’d be great. Yeah, no, it’ll be. It’ll be awesome. Joe. I am Donnie Brasco did that on purpose. Yeah, I know. I know Donnie. You checked him on and see. Do I know who I am? Yeah. Oh, I’ve been like this. I’ve been this name a long time. Well, listen, and it’s going to live with you. There’s no going away, that’s for sure. All right, my friends. Well, there you have it, you know, very, very interesting, you know, what. What Donnie is going through. And not that he’s struggling or suffering or anything else, but he has to prove to people that he is the real Donnie Brasco.

After all of the, you know, the celebrity that Joe Pistone had as Donnie Brasco. Very interesting conversation. I. I like what he said. We agree on some things. I like what he said about Epstein matter and certainly about Charlie Kirk, things like that. And how about those photos and everything that he brought? You know, this is. This is the real deal. I wonder how it is, you know, living in, you know, I don’t want to say somebody else’s shadow. It wasn’t that, but because Donnie Brasco is so high profile and because he has the same name, you know, I’m sure there was many incidents when people just look at him and say, you know, who are you? Are you for real? You’re fake.

Did you just adopt that name? But that’s the real Donnie Brasco. So it was a very interesting conversation and people, we try to bring you as much of the mob stuff as we possibly can. I always told you I’m not going to make things up, but when something interesting in that genre comes up, you know, my old life, I’m going to bring it to, you know, to our podcast. I’m going to let you judge whether you like it or not. If you have any comments, please give it to me. It probably won’t be the last conversation that I have with him.

I was thinking about maybe sitting down with him and Joe Pistone, the real Donnie Brasco and Joe Pistone. And let’s see what comes out of it. It should be a very interesting conversation. But on November 16, Greg Laurie is taking his Harvest Crusade to Utah to the very location that Charlie Kirk was assassinated. I will be there that night and it’s going to be a great event. They’ve asked for us to come there and, and just have a very special event. And if you’re at all familiar with the Harvest Crusades, you know that it’s going to be very special.

So that’s November 16th. I’m going to be doing a live from there. So mark that on your calendar. It’s going to be an amazing night. I guarantee that. That’s it, my friends. There you have it. Tell me what you think, you know, put it in your comments. I’d love to hear it. We got some good things coming up, very good things coming up that you’re going to enjoy. So how do I always leave you, my friend? Same way. Never going to change. Be safe. You know the deal. I’m not going to preach it anymore. Be healthy.

Very important, of course. And yes, I like the fact that Joe is a, is a real person of faith and he’s expressed that throughout the interview and through me many times after the cameras were off. So be safe, my friends. Be healthy. God bless each and every one of you. God bless your family, your neighborhoods, your communities, and yes, God bless our great country of America. Take care. See you next time. And my friends, before I go, I want to remind you, Franz East Wine. I now have a wine branded in my name from the world’s oldest vineyards.

We have alcoholic wine, of course, non alcoholic wine, huge seller now. And the taste is terrific, my friends. Really, you’re going to enjoy this family atmosphere wherever you want. It’s wonderful wine. You’re going to enjoy the taste. You’re going to love it, I guarantee it. So go to franzisswine.com before we sell out because it’s moving fast. That’s an offer once again you can’t refuse with a taste you’re going to love. Sa.
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