OCCULT CHRISTIAN CULTURE (pt 2) w/ Allen Marcus of @DogfaceDudes| Hauntings Ghosts Poltergeists

➡ Paranoid American, a unique comic publisher, has been exploring the mysteries of our world through their podcast since 2012. They delve into topics like mind control, secret societies, forbidden technology, and occult symbols in pop culture. The podcast challenges accepted perceptions of reality and encourages listeners to question standardized narratives. The discussion also touches on Christian occultism and the influence of religious figures on the progression of occult practices.
➡ The Pope recently interacted with an ice stone figure, sparking discussions about climate change and human responsibility. The author also discusses the influence of upbringing and religion on a person’s life path, and the potential for rebellion against these influences. They also touch on the impact of technology on young people, and question the authenticity of performative actions, such as meditation recorded for social media. The author concludes by suggesting that overcoming the observer effect in such situations could indicate a higher level of skill or enlightenment.
➡ The speaker discusses the controversial figures like Aleister Crowley and Anton Lavey, and their influence on consciousness expansion and personal responsibility. They also touch on the importance of understanding different perspectives by reading various works, including the Bible and Crowley’s “Diary of a Drug Fiend”. The conversation then shifts to the idea of authorial intent and historical revisionism, using examples from movies and video games. The speaker emphasizes that different versions of the same story can lead to different interpretations, highlighting the power of perspective.
➡ The text discusses how artificial intelligence (AI) is changing the media we consume, creating personalized versions of movies or shows. It also talks about how small changes in a movie can alter its tone and meaning. The author suggests that this personalization and variation in media is the future, allowing viewers to experience their favorite content in new ways each time they watch. The text also touches on various topics like cryogenics, the law of attraction, and conspiracy theories, indicating a wide-ranging conversation.
➡ The text discusses various theories and questions, such as city planning leading to disease, the accuracy of Mayan prophecies, the purpose of ancient structures like the pyramids, and the possibility of living in a computer-generated simulation. The speaker suggests that the pyramids might have been used for practical purposes like chemical production, and that we might be living in a simulation layered over our reality.
➡ The speaker discusses various philosophical and metaphysical topics, including the concept of life as a simulation, the existence of an afterlife, and the idea of consequences for actions in this life. They also touch on the importance of maintaining friendships despite disagreements and promote their show, the Deliberating Dog Face Dudes, where they debate various topics. The speaker also mentions their upcoming debate on the validity of astrology.
➡ The speaker discusses various topics, including the process of receiving and interpreting ideas, the importance of self-expression and problem-solving, and the role of artificial intelligence (AI) in our lives. They also touch on the concept of copyright, suggesting it’s been misrepresented as empowerment when it’s often used as a tool by publishers. The speaker encourages exploring new ideas and not suppressing thoughts, even if they’re dark or challenging. They also speculate on the future, suggesting a shift towards smaller communities and the potential rise of Chinese language and culture.
➡ In the past, American entertainment dominated globally, but now other countries are creating their own stories. Technology, especially AI, is changing language use, potentially making some languages more effective for certain topics. AI is also creating a universal language, bridging gaps between different languages. The conversation also touched on the importance of real human interaction and sharing personal experiences, and ended with a call to action for people to share their unique stories and ideas.
➡ Paranoid American offers unique stickers featuring various conspiracy themes like cryptids, cults, and killers. These stickers, available at paranoidamerican.com, are designed to entertain and intrigue. The text also includes a metaphorical description of the author’s life experiences and emotions, expressing a sense of paranoia and defiance against those who oppose or misunderstand him.
➡ The text discusses the personal experience of art and symbolism, using the example of a controversial art piece. It explores the balance between individuality and group belonging, and the role of ‘outsiders’ in defining group norms. The text also touches on cultural influences and the power of imagery, using examples from music and video games. Lastly, it recounts a mysterious event where the author’s room was found in disarray on three consecutive Wednesdays, leaving a lasting impression on him.
➡ A person recalls strange occurrences during their puberty, where items in their house would rearrange themselves when no one was home. They considered various explanations, from supernatural to someone sneaking in. They even thought about setting up cameras to catch the culprit. However, they never found a definitive answer and the events eventually stopped, leaving them with a lingering curiosity about the unexplained incidents.
➡ The speaker is discussing a supernatural phenomenon that they believe could potentially harm or even kill people. They express fear and confusion about these events, questioning their understanding and seeking answers. They also touch on the societal and personal reactions to such experiences, suggesting that some people might be interested in investigating these occurrences. The speaker also reflects on their own experiences and how they have shaped their worldview.
➡ The speaker discusses their experience with religious-themed video games, which their parents preferred due to the inclusion of Bible verses. They mention how these games helped them memorize parts of the Bible. The speaker also talks about how some companies would modify secular games to make them Christian-friendly. They question whether supporting such companies is morally right, given that they also produce non-Christian content.
➡ The text discusses the concept of ‘catalytic exteriorization phenomenon’, a term coined by Gerhard Ware, which refers to an internal experience manifesting in the physical world. This concept is linked to Carl Jung’s idea of synchronicity, where a physical event occurs in tandem with a person’s thoughts or speech. The text also explores the potential consequences of challenging religious beliefs, and the importance of being sensitive when discussing these complex ideas with others.
➡ The text discusses the author’s exploration of the concept of ‘catalytic exteriorization phenomenon’, a term attributed to Carl Jung. The author reflects on their childhood experiences with media and how it shaped their understanding of this concept. They also delve into a hypothetical conversation between Freud and Jung, highlighting their differing views on paranormal phenomena. The author further contemplates the idea of adults creating spiritual scenarios for children to reinforce certain beliefs, and the impact of writing down experiences on their perceived reality.
➡ The text discusses a story of a mother’s superhuman strength in saving her child, which is interpreted differently by people based on their beliefs. It also explores the role of spirituality in overcoming challenges, such as addiction, and how positive thinking can influence our brain’s adaptability, or neuroplasticity. The text suggests that certain religious communities may be more open to new ideas and technologies, while others may focus more on fear and uncertainty. Lastly, it debates whether overcoming addiction requires a belief in a higher power, or if it’s possible without spiritual means.
➡ The text discusses the influence of religious beliefs and cultural heritage on individuals, particularly in the context of America. It explores the concept of deism, comparing it to a child leaving their toys behind as they grow up. The text also delves into the idea of life’s mysteries, questioning whether they are puzzles to be solved or experiences to be pondered. Lastly, it debates the impact of Aleister Crowley, a controversial figure, on society, suggesting that his ideas would have emerged regardless of his existence.

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I’m just gonna call you all of that. Randomize it. So we left off on a really interesting subject that I’m kind of a well known skeptic, but you’ve got me on this one. This one is. Is interesting and I want to hear the rest of it out and I want to talk about Christian occultism and how Christianity makes occultism seem cooler than it actually is. And I want to talk about these chairs and tables that were flipped upside. Can you bring us back to this moment where you were, like, running back to your car? Where were you going? Why were you running back to the car? Set us back up again? Yeah, we kind of left on a cliffhanger.

I kind of Gave you enough sense to want to chase down a trail. And that’s not like a red herring thing, because I’m still working through this myself. So this is why I’m here today with you, because these events happened previously. So recently now a lot of people are getting into the idea of retro causality. And is time a straight line or is it sort of the spiral? Does it spiral inward, does it spiral outward? This type of thing? And reminded of the seasons we had the conversation saying that I’m in Minnesota. So now that it’s November and the ground is freezing, that’s clearly a different season.

So to go back to a different season in my life, when I was attending a church youth group, I was, you know, 12, 13 years old. And the church youth group was the cool thing to go to, apparently. I mean, as. As far as my worldview understood at this time, I would be graduating into the. The next phase of my life, which would be in this youth group setting where there would be people older than me and they’d be more influential. So I’d be able to absorb their interest, music, culture, whatever, and then be able to sort of balance my own mental checkbook to say, do I like this? Do I like that? Sort of define an identity.

Was this all Christian music that you’re being introduced to, or is there like other mainstream stuff that they were sneaking in? Anything, in other words, anything that I’d recognize, because I wouldn’t recognize any popular, like, Christian music unless it was like DC Talk. Right. So the, the popularity of DC Talk was something that other people knew. But as far as other music, it would be like the tooth and nail bands. Go on mxpx. Okay. Okay. All right, so. So we’ve got a date range almost. We’re talking like late 90s, early 2000s. Well, this is the thing with, like, cassette tapes and, and then CDs.

I didn’t know what was new or old because you’d go to the Bible bookstore and they’d all be on the same shelf. So I based things off of the COVID art. So I have something, for example here. This is a Lawrence the Cat in the bi. Ble. Okay. I’ve never heard of Lawrence the Cat. So is this a music thing? Is it based on a cartoon or a direct to VHS thing? Well, there’s. I. I talked about Carmen earlier, and this is a Carmen property ca. Okay. He was into occultism and also making, like, children’s mascots.

I don’t know if you can kind of see him in this picture. It says, yo, Kids. It’s like car man presents. Yo, kids. And then it would be this. This cat, Lawrence the cat and the Bible. Right? So I know that you’re interested. Tell me this is rap. A lot of it is rap. It’s very cool. It’s like, this is just one of the artifacts I have, and if I don’t have it, then people won’t believe that it’s even a real thing because it sounds so ridiculous. Side note, there was also singing songbook character called Salty.

Do you remember Salty, the singing songbook? Of course. I don’t know. Who was this guy who dressed as a song book, like a hymnal. So, like, his. His front would be the spine, and then he’d turn around, and it would be the back of the pages, and he’d be, like, out dancing and teaching children music. Of course, these would be Christian songs. The. The Salty names throwing me off, though, because salty doesn’t imply happy or anything. It’s like. I get. I get that. Oh, was it like P S and psalms? So, like, the softer. I hope somebody goes to hell for that.

And I’m. I’m being genuine about that judgment. So, again, this is. This is the humor of looking back and understanding that the perception of it was different then than it is now. So you are immediately picking up on the joke that you call a guy salty, and he has to be happy. And seeing the kids, well, there’s that dichotomy of does he really want to be doing this job? Is this just a paycheck? It’s like the same thing with a character named Bible Man. Apparently was a serious adult actor, maybe in actual adult films, and he had the musculature to play a hero.

But did they do a full background check on the guy? I don’t know. Okay. I like. I like the backstory that we’re giving. This is all about the children’s cat Bible song. I’m gonna have to look this up. So is this. I assume this is something you could find on YouTube or Internet Archive. A lot of it has gone Internet archive. But again, to have the physical thing in the hand, it’s like, yeah, this is. Have you looked it up on ebay to see if that’s even going for anything? Oh, for the rarity, no, I. I haven’t even bothered with that because for me, again, it’s.

It’s not a collection of items I want to have. It’s just a collection of items that somehow are still around that haven’t been thrown out yet. I like this because before we talked last time, I hadn’t even heard of Carmen. And Carmen. The fact that Carmen existed and the aesthetic that he was able to do and the content, I’m so happy that that existed out there. And I’m a little bit bummed for myself that I guess I didn’t find it at a point when I could have appreciated it much earlier on. And not even in a mocking way, in a way that would have been like, wait, I’m Christian and I’ve heard about some of this stuff, but I didn’t know about this level of detail like that.

It had more detail than a Marilyn Manson album would have. In terms of occultism. No, I would say absolutely, because what we talked about last time was the fact that a lot of the occult mechanisms that are pushing forward a lot of the fuel from that comes from religious figures who are saying, don’t look at these things. So while they’re in opposition to it, without it, there would be no progress made on either side. Do you think that there’s at any point in the future like a, like a, like a Christian adaptation of occultism that embraces it more? Because it seems that it can get close.

Like my, my best example, I think, is Catholicism, where they’ve got a lot of the occultism in there. And if they just kind of add a few extra things, you’ve kind of got like an OTO ritual on your hands. Certainly recently, the Pope, the current Pope, I don’t know what his real name is or what his Pope name is, but he was seen touching this ice stone figure. Where’s the. I don’t know the location. I saw it on social media. Maybe it’s AI, but enough, enough publications have reported on this. But it was silly to me because I was like, that should have been a block of dry ice.

So the Pope was recognizing the fact that there might be a climate and that climate might be changing due to man. But the question in my mind is if there are so called acts of God that are weather events that are acts of God and not acts of man, then man just has to go along with it. But now here’s the Pope saying that man might have some sort of responsibility as to whether or not the polar ice caps are melting. Okay. I didn’t know this. This. So he’s like with Al Gore when he’s saying this, I assume.

No, this was. This was very recent. Within the last few weeks. Okay. It’s very topical. Well, right. I guess that. That’s kind of been the lean. Right. Like, like Especially the Catholic Church has been leaning more and more into green energy. And I don’t even know, like, I wonder what their stance on AI is, because I guess that would be in complete opposition to green energy, Right? Well, I think it’s just the resonant symbol of this ice cap, this thing, that it means something different to me than it does to you. But we see this symbol, and now the Pope is in some ways trying to wrangle it together to be like, this is our Catholic perspective on this specific issue.

Using a touchstone, which looks like a block of dry ice that hasn’t been cracked yet, so it’s not giving off the sort of smoky effect. So it looked like some plastic set design with, like, LED lights inside of it. And I was thinking, you know, we could have done a much better job of making this thing look like it’s alive, like it’s melting, like there’s something inside of it that once it melts, there might be a figure. Did you ever have those soaps that had little plastic figures in them? And then you get rewarded for using the soap by.

It just dissolves away and there’s a little figure. I think they were mostly dinosaurs, though. They would just turn out to be like a plastic dinosaur. Some little. Some little tchotchke or figure. And I’m like, I got them all over here. Like, it doesn’t exist anymore because enough people in the 80s and 90s hurt themselves on them. Yeah. Something that looks exactly about the size and the shape of that. So you. So you use the bar of soap, and all that would remain would be the dinosaur, and then it looks like an egg. Like the soap looks like an egg, usually.

Yes. Yeah. Because it would have to be enough casing to cover the. The thing. So this is sort of like my active imagination as a child to see any. Any simple thing could be so influential to me as an adult that I wouldn’t even know about him. So this is why, when it comes to raising children, people want to bring them to a Christian church to say that if I raise up a child in the church, that that’s. That’s the track we’ll set them on, and then they will continue along that track because we will have sort of built the tracks, that this is a train you’re on, this is the direction to head, and this is your life’s course.

But I’m not a trained guy, so I didn’t get on the track well. And I don’t know if that necessarily works anyways. Right. Because, like, the the typical thing you go through as a teen is to reject everything that’s been presented to you so far. It’s like, oh, there’s a whole nother world out there. So let me see if there’s something that’s the exact opposite of what I’m familiar with that might also be interesting. So I think that there’s all like, if you try and train your kid to be a certain thing or think a certain way, it could just as easily backfire like 50, 50 almost.

Right. Like it’s like it’s an absolute crapshoot. It is like flipping a coin. You don’t know which direction it’s going to go in and it’s going to be like the shorting of his cat where it’s like dead and alive at the same time depending on other factors. And, and the other factors aren’t necessarily. Do you even have any influence at all? If, if it’s just like a flip of a coin, like, you might as well just not. Well, there’s the definition of magic that we have to brush up against where if you recognize that we live in a magical world.

And the definition of magic has something to do with recognizing my own will and then being able to bring change to my own reality. And we’re talking about raising a kid and introducing them to like a religion, for example, to kind of shape what their path would look like. I would, I would extend that umbrella of religion to be also all cultures. So the way that, yeah, good, like laser focused version of that as an example and then it expands outward because the, just like the hierarchy of decisions, like if our church doesn’t celebrate Halloween or Christmas in these ways, are we going to be heretical for participating in these events in our own ways? So to have like a private Christmas ceremony at home would, would be different than going to the church and celebrating Christmas.

What do you think about heresy for or against? I’m for creative rebellion and not, not doing a rebellion in such a way that it is like so against the grain that it makes everybody angry because there’s some people that get rebellious and then everyone just like, man, that is cringe. So let me, let me give a practical example. There was the artist that got famous for submerging a crucifix into like a huge vial of urine or something. Yeah, Piss Christ. Right, right. So in your mind, is that heresy or is that just cringy? Is there like a line between those two? At that point in time, the crucifix submerged in human urine was going to be A catalyst talking about the culture at large.

So the function of the thing, depending on the artists and author’s intent versus how it’s received, could have various influences by other sides. So I’m talking about controlling the narrative. Let me, let me ask you on like, let me just split hairs a little bit. Yeah. If the artist had done that in private, just for their own, I guess fun. And never even told anyone about it. So therefore it wasn’t about starting like a national dialogue. Is one of those versions more heretical than the other? Now you’re talking about splitting heresies. Yeah. Damn you. Damn you, Marcus.

I’m here to unite them basically is what I’m trying to speak about. This idea that we want to sort of unite everybody under a symbol, under an art, under a creative expression, going to a movie, having a milestone cultural event versus having our own screens in our own private lives and being separated. So I’m thinking today in terms of performative meditation, where we’re talking young people at this point and you know, young people, the iPad generation, you give a three year old a young iPad and YouTube and they’re just going to scroll through it and it’s going to make all the sounds and slide up and they’re going to.

It’s going to alter their brain and they’re going to do different things. So when they feel anxious, then they think, well, the reason I’m feeling anxious is because I’m getting too much information. So it’s an information overload. And to self soothe, I might just go sit in a corner, cross my legs and focus on my breathing. We would call that maybe meditation or prayer or timeout, depending if it’s punishment. It’s like you need to have a go, go, timeout. So these young people today are giving themselves time out while they’re setting up their camera to record them sitting still in a corner for a period of time.

So at that point, because of the observer effect and knowing that it’s being recorded, are they really doing the meditation? Are they really doing the inner work, or are they just sitting still and smiling and making mug faces for the camera? This type of thing. Well, hear me out. Out of those two options, right? The person that would just go and sit down and meditate versus the person that would set up a camera, hit record, and then go and sit and meditate. The latter of those would seem like it would cry a higher level of skill and enlightenment in order to continue to actually meditate, even though they’ve got that observer effect, like they transcend Whatever, you know, metaphysical property that enacts the observer effect, if they can transcend that, then technically they’re training at a much higher level than the person that’s not setting up the camera.

And this returns to your question, the heresy of, of contemplating the meaning of a crucifix covered in human urine. The piss Christ art piece, if that becomes the focus of contemplation during a meditation, it might even just be like you’re in an art museum and you sit down and you stare at a painting for a while and then you’re just looking at the colors and your eyes go wonking cross and you see something that isn’t there, but then you’ve gotten something out of it. And it might not be what the author intended for it to be, but the personal experience on an individual level is different from a church congregation focused on a symbol together during a worship service.

So this is the individual versus the group. And now we’re talking about how to be an individual who belongs to a group but remains an individual through their own creative rebellion and not make everybody angry to the point where you stick out so much that you purposely become the outsider and then no one likes you on purpose. But that archetype still has to exist. Now, like some, like there has to be someone that plays that role, that defines what the other pole is, to like, actually go out there and stand there with that flag so that everyone else can be like, oh, there’s, there’s the flag.

And we did talk about the so called see you at the pole event in front of high schools in America where Christian teenagers stand around the American flag pole on their school campus to unite in prayer. So in that way, literally standing around a flag to pray for the nation, to pray for the school to want to have a positive effect in their minds, a positive effect on their school, to claim it for Christ. There’s like an interesting relative theory at play here, right? Like, even when we just first started talking about, and you mentioned like, all the cool kids went to this youth camp and it’s like, man, like you’re already inside of a microcosm, a bubble of sorts, for that to be the cool thing to do.

And now we’re talking about another example of Christians that are standing around flag poles. I assume, at least how I am interpreting you bringing that up is that that is these outsiders that are literally saying, like, hey, here, here we are in his opposition to everything else that’s going on. So we’re at least one version of this polarity. But that Again, is inside of like a microcosm, right? Like in one school on the west coast, maybe, then that might be weird to have those kids grouped around. But if you go in the Midwest or if you zoom out and you look at the US versus, say, Europe now, it’s really like anyone doing that would be a complete outsider.

But it all. It all seems to be completely relative as to what would ostracize you right there. There’s some groups that if Marilyn Manson stepped in the room. Forgive the continued example, but it’s like if Marilyn Manson set the room, there’s some groups of people that’d be like, look at this poser, you know, versus if. If he went into other groups, it would be like, oh my God, the Antichrist just showed up. And again, Marilyn Manson is a symbol that’s etched on my mind at a very. A suggestible period in my life. I. What age? What was the first, the first time you heard or saw Marilyn Manson? Probably 1998.

99. Do you remember on the release of Final Fantasy 8? No, I was hardcore 7, I think. I. I didn’t make my way all the way through seven, so I didn’t. I didn’t pay attention to eight, but I know the time period we’re talking about. Okay, so again, time, being what it is, can only do one thing at a time. I remember standing outside of a Funko Land, later became Gamestop at a game store that carried the media. And in the. The window they had the poster art for Final Fantasy 8. And it had this. This woman, this figure, and she had like this ship’s helm behind her.

So she’s kind of like the ship of state. So she’s kind of steering the drama behind the scenes. And then there’s the characters that are gonna be in it. And then juxtapose right next to it was that. Was it Antichrist Superstar, where Marilyn Manson is the androgynous figure, alien, with kind of the dolphin skin. So that image was next to Final Fantasy 8, which I think was next to probably the Legend of Ocarina of Time poster. So this is a music slash video game store. Correct. So that being the symbol. Now if I would have seen that symbol on the wall, I might have thought, well, maybe this is not a Bible bookstore.

Maybe I shouldn’t go into it. But this is the place to get used video games. So I would go into there. So in that way, that’s how culture might have seeds of destruction. Because the Antichrist Superstar clearly is not the Christ Superstar. So it’s Not Jesus Christ Superstar, but not knowing the cultural reference to what it was about. It’s just going on vibes, right? So as a kid, you like your intuition, your gut feeling. Does it feel like it’s going to have a devastating effect on my psyche? Is it my. My aphantasia, my images in my mind that are just going to be like, so resonant.

I don’t have control over that. So that’s why there’s the idea of like guarding your eyes against certain images. Because of the strength of the image, know, until you feel the effect of it. I. I can agree with that. I mean, or because that could apply to something that you see out in the real world. It’s just a series of images, right? So there’s definitely people that can see things that will change them for light. Do you think Marilyn Manson is one of those things at that kind of level? I mentioned Marilyn Manson alongside of Final Fantasy, knowing that at that time in my life I would not be.

Be open to exploring that media, but in the future I would be able to do so at my own time. So there’s this idea of like a hype cycle release to say, like, what’s coming out this week and you want to be with the current releases versus being with the evergreen sort of media that is more of a timeless quality. Okay. So we’ve. We’ve kind of got a good established time frame, time period. That brings us back to this event that I want to finish out. You go with it with a mental image that I’ll never forget.

So the. The mental image of a house of in disarray is a very striking image due to the memory of the thing. So. So the brief reminder is I think I have, like. See, I didn’t have cell phones then, so I didn’t really know what the time was, but I did have, you know, my Bible. You’re seeing some skillet stickers. Project 86, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles came out in 2003. So that was like a newer thing. I might have had a different Bible at the time. And I. I’m not even sure if I was bringing my Bible to youth group all the time.

But there was something I needed to get. It might have been like I borrowed a CD from someone that I want to listen to. But then I got. I was in the van to go to church. I’m like, oh, no, I’m not going to see this person for seven more days. And I promised then I would return the CD to then get another one so I could listen to it. This is how I get the media. I’m like, hold on real quick. Just, I need to go back to my room. So I unlocked the door, ran back upstairs, and things were unsettled, shall we say? It was like a game of pick up sticks.

You know, you put sticks in a container, you shake them up and you just kind of drop and plop. And the way that they fall interlace over each other is like it all happens simultaneously. What, what specifically are we talking about? Like all the chairs, all the tables or just like certain things that you noticed? Dress. I had shelves on top of dressers and they all just fell kind of into the center of the room, kind of off center. So like everything that was able to move had moved and sort of collapsed in on itself. In the three bedrooms upstairs.

They weren’t that way because I was just in my bedroom, ran downstairs to get in the van ready to go to church, and remembered. Oh, but, but what I did, I mentioned this happened three weeks in a row, three Wednesdays in a row. You didn’t mention that. I thought this was a one time event. No, it wasn’t a one time event. It happened three Wednesdays in a row during the. Some like August, like late August. And you, you’re what, like 13, 15. 17. This is like a personal puberty question. I’m trying to remember. Well, when did the puberty happen thing.

And I haven’t question because there’s, there’s patterns. Exactly, exactly. So this was a series of Wednesday evenings in August when I was 12 or 13, going to youth group. Okay. I mean this, this is like classic prime poltergeist age. Right. Because when you go through puberty, it seems that sometimes this is where the anomalies get reported. More often than not, if there’s a kid around going through puberty, then your chairs might get rearranged. What I hadn’t mentioned is like just bringing it back to memory. The fact that, you know, strange things had happened while we were away.

So, you know, we left the house and we came back and then that would be like 90 minutes to two hours, which would give plenty of time for neighbors who might have had a key to walk in and have a little mischief on our behalf. Yeah. I’m curious. Let me just cut in really quick. Yeah. Because some people will hear that and they’ll already be gravitating towards a whole bunch of different explanations. Right. And I’m sure one of those explanations, let’s just say like ghosts. Let’s just put like a big category that Includes everything supernatural and call it ghosts.

Right. But then there’s everything that doesn’t go in that category. Like, what are the things that you were thinking of that. That wouldn’t go into the supernatural ghost category? Like, someone snuck in and rearranged everything within two minutes. Or, like, what. What did you go through in terms of trying to explain all this? Well, after the first week, we. The. The first inst. There was multiple instances of it to various degree. But when it happened on these specific Wednesdays, this is when I started. Should I leave, like, a trail of dust on doors and fingerprints to see if there’d be human things? This is where I started thinking of, like, putting up security cameras.

This is before trail cams were a thing. I don’t think I had a camcorder at that point. So I was, you know, trying to figure this out. Well, how would you. How would you get evidence of whatever was doing this activity that. But I didn’t have a lot of time because I was doing school, and then I have to go to the youth group. Then we come home and have to go to sleep because there’s a. Like, going to school the next day, this type of idea. And did you tell anyone as soon as this happened? Did you keep it all to yourself? It wasn’t something I was publicizing because I didn’t know what it was.

You weren’t like, mom, dad, the crazy. They. They knew because it happened to their bedroom as well. So there we had to pick everything back up, which was kind of the annoying aspect of it. So at that point, I was like, I don’t. I don’t know what this is. I. I didn’t have the mental capacity to care. It was just an annoying thing that I had to deal with. And then it happened again. But the third week, I was like, it’s. Whatever. It didn’t. Didn’t feel like it was something I should even be thinking about or concerning with.

I had. I had other concerns. That was not the biggest concern. But then at that time, when I ran back up to my room, that’s when I was like, things were in place now. Things weren’t in place within a very small window, like, two minutes. If you had put up the trail cams or if your parents had decided, do you think the observer effect would have canceled that out and it would have stopped the activity? That’s what I was thinking about more recently, this idea that had I been there to observe it, had. Would it have happened? Toy Story rules, that sort of idea.

So, like, if I Could keep an eye on something, then something isn’t going to happen. But in the periphery of my vision, maybe I could see something out of the corner of my eye that sort of thought. But to have direct vision on the thing. And maybe I think that’s why we’ve gotten to the point of, like, security cameras everywhere now, because then everything, everybody will have to be on their best behavior. I’m seeing the security camera up in the corner of this screen. It’s like, we didn’t have those. It’s off right now. The little red light’s not blinking, so you can tell it’s off.

Oh, it’s not recording. Okay. So we can get away with things. Oh, yeah. No one’s gonna see this. Perfect. Perfect. I got so the. Because in my mind, there’s two. If I. If I have to boil it down to be overly simplistic and just get two options in retrospect, looking back at the concept of putting a camera up to see if this would happen that third Wednesday, for example, one. One line of thought, like, one fork in that road is that observer effect means it would have stopped it or would have. Like, it wouldn’t have been caught on camera.

But the other one is almost like investing in bitcoin early. Like, what if you’re the one. What if you’re the person that finds visual proof that gets solidified just like the. Like the Patterson, Gimlin, Bigfoot footage, Right? Like, you could be that guy. And I’m not. I’m not saying that there has to be, like, ego involved. I’m just saying that out of all the different instances out there, the next person that gets, like, some really good conclusive ghost or supernatural footage that’s not a paranormal activity advertisement. Like, that’s kind of like getting a bitcoin, or is that.

Is that the wrong way to think of it? I’m not thinking of it in terms of the metaphysical mysteries. I’m thinking more in the mythopoetic mysteries as to, well, what does it mean? What is the meaning of it, and what is the effect of the thing? I’m not going to be able to go back and recreate all of the factors again. Time being either linear thing, a linear progression, depression, or seasonal thing. It was like, I can’t go back to account for all the qualities of the situation at the time to recreate it. So you can’t make Mercury.

Mercury go back or in and out of retrograde and, like, align everything as it needed to be for that exact instance. So the word catalyst like something triggered, a cosmic trigger was pulled, something happened and then there was a visual effect of something. I don’t have all of the information as to what caused that, but I think it would have been everything leading up to that point caused the exteriorization of inner thoughts. And there’s other people involved. So the group mind effect saying, well, my family and, and the pastor that we had at the time, who was the spiritual advisor who got the call to say, and we came home, we’re a little bit upset about something.

Can you offer us some guidance and sort of like a soothing, calming voice of reason? And then later on when I, I spoke to him a few years ago, I saw him again. I was like, do you remember that, that, that, those, those Wednesday nights when you get a phone call from us? And he said, yeah, I remember. He said, I think that maybe I’d call her id or they just had a sense of who it was going to be. And his wife was like, you know, you don’t have to answer the phone right now. You don’t have to answer that call.

But being a man of the cloth, you know, that is the calling. When someone calls, you need to be on call and answer the call to provide whatever sort of guidance necessary at the time. So you, your parents and the spiritual advisor of the cloth at this, at this point, is anyone thinking demonic or possession or haunting or anything in that genre of words? Or is every, is everyone dancing around saying things, you know, do you know, I’m getting that, like, because like you, I assume that you’re the, if it’s your house, you don’t want to be the first one to drop the D word.

Right? You don’t want to just drop that D until someone else says it. Like, you almost want a person with a cloth to imply what it means. And otherwise it’s almost like a home inspector. You’re just hoping that they’re just like, yeah, no, everything seems normal, you know, like sometimes the house settles and that’s what’s causing this weird supernatural like phenomenon. Yeah, there was that immediate sense of call the pastor. It’s like a crime hasn’t been committed. So you don’t call the police. The Ghostbusters are on a movie. They don’t have a real life counterpart. So then who do you call but your spiritual advisor? And that’s his job.

But he’s not equipped to handle the job of going above and beyond figuring out the metaphysical mysteries of the thing. The point is there’s young children involved. They’re young family. They’re in our church. We just want to de. Escalate and calm things down, recognizing that it may be spiritual warfare in that sense, that there’s some sort of oppositional thing happening that causes sort of a friction which would catalyze the event in an exterior way. And I’m saying the. That’s. That’s where I came across the phrase catalytic exteriorization phenomenon when I was doing some research for it.

Man, so many. I’ve got questions for people that aren’t even here right now, But I’m just thinking that this. This concept of, like a. Of a spirit that’s trying to communicate or some kind of. Maybe I’m assigning malevolence to it because that’s. Ultimately, it’s like, if it’s supernatural, I don’t understand it, so I’m afraid of it. So I guess it has to be evil. But I’m thinking, like, it could. It could harm you. If something can rearrange your furniture, then it could also do that while you were in the house and rearrange it right on top of you and technically kill you.

Right. Like, there. There’s versions where I’ve heard a lot of different people have ghost stories that I know of people that. I don’t question their credibility whatsoever. And one of them is just, like, big items just being, like, knocked off of top shelves or cabinets. And I’m always thinking, like, well, what if you just happen to be on the ground looking under a cabinet or something, and this thing falls from, you know, six or seven feet up, and it just, like, slams on your head on the right angle? Technically, these would seem just like, oh, the windows rattle and things getting off the shelves.

That implies that it could kill you. Like, something could murder. Like a ghost could murder you. And again, forgive my, like, just, you know, oversimplification of this, but that’s essentially what it boils down to. Now, this is where I take a step back to say that I’m not thinking in terms, again, the metaphysical sort of opus operandi. What is modus operandi? What, like, what is going on here? I’m going to have to use some foreign words to sort of work through the language of describing the ineffable. In some ways, like, this is something that you don’t talk about in polite society.

People are going to be very uncomfortable to. To bring this up. There’s no easy way to say, okay, we’re going on a metaphysical journey together. Prepare yourself. We’re going to have to face reality. Well, this is relative, too. Again, right so if you were to take a sampling of the people in your zip code, for example, yeah. There’d probably be people that are like, what a weirdo. Like, don’t call me again. Maybe even put out, like, a trespass on you. But. But if you were, say, able to get into, like, a specific psychology slash, like MIT persons, you know, like, like, like reading group, now all of a sudden you could have, like, your, Your actual, like, Venkmans and like, your actual Ghostbusters.

They just don’t realize it yet, but there are groups of people that would be wildly fascinated and actually have resources to investigate this in, like, extreme depth. It’s like, yeah, okay, an earthquake happened. Let’s send in the geologists. They’re only going to see the after effects. Yeah, true. So it’s like you call in the Ghostbusters. The underlying assumption that there was a cause followed by an effect of which I witnessed the immediate effect. See, I was the only person, so I was the only witness of what seemed to be an immediate effect because I was in the space.

I left the space, had an inkling, oh, I gotta return to space. And when I returned to space, whatever had happened had happened. The exteriorization of the. The phenomenon. If there was some sort of getting all the kids in the van to go to church and there’s that sort of, I don’t want to. I don’t. You know, it’s like, I want to stay home tonight. Or I don’t feel. It’s like, no, you’re going. Well, all that sort of psychic energy together of we’re doing the thing. You can’t say no. And there’s some psychic pushback to say, I’d rather not do this.

That being in the air. I mean, certainly that’s. That’s what we’re looking to apply a reason to it. But I have to step back and pause the tape to say, why do we think that we had anything to do with anything? We were just at a place in time, experience something, and then maybe it didn’t happen after that. So when it happened three times in a row, then it’s sort of like, okay, this seems to be a pattern. But then we can’t predict accurately a fourth or a fifth time. We don’t know at the time or even now.

Do you question your sanity over this event? This is me not questioning my sanity, but rather stating again, how I felt then was, I don’t know. And the adults in the room here, they don’t have a sufficient answer. So the best they can do is just calm things down, de escalate and offer some spiritual support, some prayers for peace and guidance and this sort of thing to calm things down. I don’t know. It just. It’s. It’s insufficient. It’s wildly insufficient for me that that would be the answer. Like it would. It would eat away at me.

I would think of nothing but that event for the rest of my life. That’s why I’m saying as a symbolic representation of the strange reality. The image is forever ingrained in like three neural grooves in my gray matter for this thing. And then other events as well contribute to that. So what I’m saying is my own world view is framed by the things that I seeked out and then the things that I just was a witness to. Did you ever at the time or even afterwards, did you ever. I know you’re saying that you weren’t trying to figure out what caused and how it happened, but I feel if I was in that position, and I know we’re not the same person, but I’d be thinking like what did I do to call it? Was it like.

Because I saw that Marilyn Manson post coaster at Funko Town. Is that like was. Is it my fault? Did I watch a scary movie? Did I, you know, eat after midnight? Sure. Did I get water on me? Like what did you ever consider like it was your fault and that something you did contributed to it? Like the. The placing the guilt on. On a certain party. That was certainly thoughts that were had. But again, being able to de. Escalate my own mind to say, you know what, let’s just wait and see a little bit. What about anyone else? The spiritual advisor, parents? Did.

Did anybody at any point try and say here’s what’s causing it or this might be the cause or it was just a hundred percent. Let’s all just say a prayer together and calm down and have some tea. There is probably conversations between different family members about it that I was not privy to and maybe I didn’t want to be a part of. It’s his fault. Is his fault. He’s. I saw him play in Final Fantasy 8. I know it was, you know, at that point it would have been Legend Zelda on Nintendo Entertainment says with the gold cartridge and, and the manual had, you know, symbols on it.

I mean the, the printed manual for Legend of Zelda had these really strange symbols on it. And it was this fantasy adventure. It has the triforce, which could be construed as the Holy Trinity though. No. Right. But the idea that certain totem objects in one’s home could have a resonant effect. And only having pictures of Christ and crucifixes and Christmas trees, all the Christian accoutrements somehow would, would have the overall resonant effect of one. This is a Christian family, Christian home sort of thing. So maybe that would outweigh one little triforce over there. Again, I’m sensing a small pattern here that if there was, if the devil got a foot in the door to your soul, it sounds like it would have been through video games.

Because video games for whatever reason doesn’t sound like you had an access to a good selection through just the, the Bible friendly stores where you could get your music or your books or everything else from. Well, you know, I don’t want to go on the complete tangent of purchasing unlicensed Nintendo Entertainment System games through a Christian book distributor catalog to receive Bible based video games through Wisdom Tree. So I had every single Wisdom Tree NES game and there were oftentimes Christmas presents and Easter presents until I had those ones are by the way go for a lot of money on ebay.

Just I, I know that, I know that that’s not what, what your vibe is, but I’m just letting you know them complete in box. Yes, I, I understand, I understand the burden of having those relics complete in box with everything in them. Yeah, I, I understand that you have, I mean, complete inbox. Wow, that’s, this is amazing, man. Okay. All right. So because, because they were purchased brand new, so I remember, you know, the tax return season. Now we got a little bit of extra money. Now we can finally purchase the overpriced brand new video game from the catalog.

What was overpriced? Because I, because I remember video games at that time new were like 50, $60 if you went to Toys R Us or something around this time period. This was after the Super Nintendo was released. So, so they were, they were still selling them from the catalog at full price. And I, at some point I recognized it made more sense to go to a used store to purchase a inexpensive game because I might not like it. But my, my parents attitude was if they’re going to play video games, there should be some Bible verses in them.

So they were willing, as were other parents willing to pay full price for the new object because of the spiritual quality of the thing. Let me ask, did in your opinion, did any of that work? Did it, did it make you more receptive to Bible verses that your parents were buying you Bible specific games? Or do you think it had no impact Will having the scripture memorization certainly sets a framework from which I will have like the instant recall or the. The thought that comes to mind as a reaction would be a Bible verse. So you said that you were able to use the Bible video games as mnemonic devices to memorize different aspects of the Bible.

So there’s certain times when you’re accessing Bible information, you’re calling up like the Noah’s Ark, Mario Brothers bootleg. Well, so there was a game called Spiritual Warfare, which was basically a Legend of Zelda clone. So it was the top down view and you’d go around and get objects to be able to interact with the world. In this game they had fruits of the spirit. So you’re a character walking on the map hurling fruits at sinners and cities and then little demons would get out of them. And then you have to shoot the fruit at the demons and to then make sure that they were.

Their soul was saved. Were they just swapping out sprites and music from actual Zelda? Is that how they were making these games? They were a company called Color Dreams and they were kind of doing like a reverse engineering sprite swapping thing. What they did do is they had their secular version of the game and then they swapped out sprites to turn into Christian version of the game. So there was this skateboarding game where you’re a cool skateboarding guy and you’re trying to get to save your girlfriend who’s about to be disrobed by the bad guys. And at the end of each scene she’d have less and less clothing that’s not Christian friendly.

Let’s call it Sunday Funday. And now the story of the game is it’s Sunday morning and you’re trying to get to church on time. So on your skateboard, on your. So the skateboard remained, the enemies remained, the end screens changed. And then they added some sort of spiritual component to say that this is a Christian skateboarder going to church. What do you think? Let’s take that example. Like right now for you, I don’t care what you thought at the time, but like right now, do you think that that’s a case of your money is going towards a company that ultimately is doing things that you’re opposed to? Or is it that like, like you’re still thankful that the company provided a Bible skateboard game? Like they couldn’t, they could have just not provided anything at all and then you wouldn’t have had a skateboard game to play.

It’s like that meme that we have today where it’s like we have Zelda at home and it’s Sunday and it’s Spiritual Warfare Game or you know, we have, we have that at home, but it’s, it’s salty. The Seeing Songbook, it’s like, it’s like not quite a replacement for it. It’s not quite swapping out certain things to make it Christian approved. And I did want to talk about fan edits in terms of like movies where maybe certain things have been removed from the film to make it more family friendly. Or like when you ride on an airline, they’d have like the airline approved film where they’d remove certain things that could be offensive.

Like any movies about airplanes crashing would not be shown on the in flight entertainment in certain movies except when Loose Change came out. They, they played it on certain Virgin flights. That’s interesting. I don’t think they kept it on long, but they, they definitely did that. So. But the ultimate question I think that I’m stabbing at is that is, is do you have any view on the company itself that it’s either a profiting off of Christians while not being Christian itself because they also had this more illicit version of that same video game. And if, if they were truly Christian, I guess like setting like an unrealistic bar, then they wouldn’t have even made that the nude version.

They only would have made the Christian version. So is it that the company itself shouldn’t, should not be supported and ultimately like no one should have been even buying the Bible Skate or Die game because the company is making this other filth or is it that let the company do what it does, you know, laissez fair attitude. But like we will purchase this Bible friendly version because we want our kids or you may personally like I want to just consume Bible friendly media. So like is there even like a moral debate in, in your head? Clearly the market decided that they wanted these religious versions.

And when I talk about the, the joys of walking into a Christian Bible bookstore in the 90s, there was a whole mystery on the shelves of what any of this stuff was. And again, buyer’s remorse, who knows, you’d feel bad to bring it back because you didn’t like the thing. So you’d sit with it, you’d learn to like it and make them all acquired tastes is what I’m hearing. There is that aspect. And the idea that in America we would celebrate Easter and Christmas and birthdays with gifts was already well established. Now what those gifts were going to be.

Well, here’s a whole catalog of safe things that you could circle. It’s not like the Toys R Us catalog or the, the Fleet Farm Christmas catalog or a Sears catalog. No, it’s the Christian Book Distributors catalog, which were sent to pastors who would then use that catalog to purchase tithing baskets, like felt tithing baskets and wafers for communion and communion table. All, all the accoutrements that would go with religious ritual and running churches and things, plus books to put in the Christian library. Some churches would have libraries where they would buy the media and put it on their shelves.

So whether it was the church, the families, the home school, there was people flush with cash buying this stuff. So they kept selling it and they kept producing it. What, what denomination were you again? Pentecostal. Do Pentecostal believe in holy water? Do they believe in it? I was more familiar with the idea of anointing oil. And the catalog would sell anointing oil in little jars. So a lot of the deacons would carry the anointing oil in jars with them in like pocket size, kind of like a trial size cologne type container. So like just a little container.

Is there any expectation that anointing oil would have the same properties as holy water is usually ascribed? Well, the symbolic representation of going through the ritual and having the authority of being a deacon in the church ordained, having the credentials to then use the oil as a physical manifestation of touching the person and leaving the trace of the oil in a cross on the forehead. Now you’ve been blessed, you’ve been anointed. And that was one of the things that happened after the Wednesday night event where we came home, we prayed, we were all anointed, and then we calmed down and went to sleep.

And then it’s like, well, let’s get on with our lives here. Let’s not continue fighting a battle because again, who’s to say it’s even a battlefield? Now I’m at the point to say right time, right place, or I was just at a place and then things happened. This type of thing where it could be completely acausal. So this is where we get into the idea of synchronicity, where a broken clock is right twice a day. Well, I don’t, I don’t know if a causal is the right word. A causal would be like without cause, period. Right, because.

Because clearly if we’re taught, if we’re laser focusing on this one particular and it’s, let’s combine all three as if it were just one. But I understand the repetition emphasizes it. It makes it more than just a false memory, especially after the third time. This is something that is actually changing physical reality in some capacity objectively. Right. Like this was not in your mind. This is not a subjective thing that you were going through that maybe you’re just seeing things on that third time. Is that a right assumption? That is why I brought it up in the first place, because it was witnessed by my family and, and the pastor.

So the, the group mind was not a group hallucination. It was physical in terms of the metaphysical. That’s where I step back and say I’m not hot. This, it’s not a fresh crime scene. As soon as, as soon as other people walked in and we started moving things around and just like putting things back together, it’s the, the crime scene is now influenced by other things. So it wasn’t a hermetically event in time that could be studied by. Anyway, I get it, I get it. Yeah. I. So I went into the folkloric mythopoetic interpretations which then led me to Carl Jung who was writing about some of this stuff.

So that’s where I stumbled across the phrase. And I don’t have the exact memory of where I found it it exactly, but I wrote down the word catalytic exteriorization phenomenon. And now recently I was like, I’m going to track down the source of that phrase, having an understanding of the meaning of it in my own mind and wanting to understand what the literature says. So in my search for this is going to get a little literary, a little academic. But that’s kind of what Jung and Freud are. They’re food for the academic grist mill where people are just chewing on every word they.

They say and then writing books about it. There was a guy who translated the book from the German and that’s where I found the phrase. So Gerhard Ware W E H R wrote the, the. Oh come on. He exclaimed. That’s sheer bosh. As a character reacting to someone saying that that is an example of a catalytic exteriorization phenomena. So I will jump to the chase to say that was a phrase found in translation, not lost in translation. It was a phrase created, as far as I understand it, by Gerhard Ware to explain what was being in the German.

So he used his knowledge of the English language to make it more colorful, to give it how accurate is the translation? Because the way that it sounds is if it’s a Catholic exterior, what was it? Phenomenon. Is that the catalytic exterior phenomenon. That’s the correct phrase. So break it down one word at a time. What was the Catalyst for the exterior meaning not in the mind but in the physical manifest matter reality. So there was a catalytic experience that was inner brought manifest in the outer world and then together it’s the phenomenon of the event. So that, that’s the phrase that I began looking into and finding out that it was going back to the so called event where Carl Jung was in his office and he was discussing synchronicity.

And then he heard the, the loud rap in the bookcase. And then he pointed to and said see that’s an example because of the timing of the thing because I was speaking about how it’s not all in the mind and it physically manifests in real world. And then a loud bang knocking in the wall of the bookshelf. And then he pointed to it because on the timeline it happening. This sounds like synchronicity. He’s, he’s describing a version of synchronicity that involves something like, like a physical thing happening while you’re talking about it or referencing it. Correct.

So he’s saying there, there’s an example of it. Okay. I mean here’s an example that I, I went through recently that I’ve given guess. It’s, it seems like a unique experience, but I don’t necessarily know I ever like try and find a phrase for it. But I was talking to a friend and we were talking about a very specific person that you wouldn’t even expect for anyone to know. And that person calls my friend mid conversation as we’re talking about them. And it was like, I mean there were acquaintances but not friends of any kind of mind.

And it was just wild. And, and I’m sure everyone’s gone through something similar where like you’re thinking of a thing and then the exact thing happens and you’re like damn, did I actually have any impact on that whatsoever? And you don’t know because you can’t capture that moment in time and analyze it in the future. Precisely. So that’s, that’s where I was explaining to you last time how my world view just sort of came together in this way to say well of course things are strange and there is another layer of reality beyond nuts and bolts.

Reality beyond, beyond the Bible or compatible with the Bible? How would it be incompatible with the Bible? I mean, are you asking the questions now? It’s a pretty deep question. But I mean there, it does seem that there are things that would be objectively incompatible with the Bible. For example, complete denial of the Holy Spirit. Although maybe I’m giving away a very specific denominations Ruling on that. Right. But that, that, that would be one thing, is that if you were to advocate suppression or ignorance of or apathy of the Holy Spirit, then that would technically be incompatible with some versions of the Bible.

Or, or am I being too hardlined to even to make that firm of a stance on that? I, I, I do remember that being kind of the one unforgivable sin. It’s like, you know, sin can be forgiven, but the one unforgivable sin is blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. And that’s, that’s a side theological discussion for another time. But that was the kind of, the one thing to say. Well, you know, if you were to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit, if, let me phrase it this way. If you were going through some sort of chaos, magic, ritual thing where the goal was to break apart from a religious tradition, you might attempt to do a ritual where during the ritual, whatever it is, you would blaspheme against the Holy Spirit because you’ve never done it.

Like, like a whole, like the, what is it, Unholy Eucharist and a black Mass where you basically profane everything and invert everything. If you were to join a group to do it, that would be the working of the group. If you were to be an individual to say, okay, I’m at this crossroads here where I’m just annoyed by everybody in my local faith community. I’m gonna try, I’m, I’m just gonna try to see what happens. And then you do the thing that you were told to never do. And then does lightning strike you down in that moment, that type of thing, which sometimes there are immediate reaction, sometimes it’s more delayed.

But the course of the person’s life after that, does it completely unravel? Do all of their relationships just fall apart? Do they turn to drugs and alcohol and all the coping mechanisms? Do they have a complete mental breakdown? Maybe for some people. Maybe for some people, I was fortunate to not have a total mental breakdown over all these little strange things in my mind. It was just interesting. I didn’t, I didn’t find it particularly frightening. For me, I think the most difficult part was the emotional reaction of other people around me because I wish that they would contain their emotion in such a way that it wouldn’t spill over.

So, like, what did you have people, like, freaking out over this when you told them, Again, being the, being the, the messenger, to say that our reality is a little bit strange. This could certainly break people. So I found out to be very gentle in introducing these topics. So give me an example of how you introduced it before you knew that you had to be gentle about it. Like, what would the icebreaker be like, hey, Marcus. Hey, man, I haven’t seen you for a few days. What’s going on? What’s new? Since last Wednesday. I haven’t seen you since last Wednesday.

Again, wouldn’t bring that to that social situation. Would. Not the right time. But it came up at a certain point. Right. With, like, some friends, that event. Eventually you broke the news to them, I’m sure, to, like, test the waters. Not right away and. And only after they have gone. Gone through enough other interesting sort of. I wouldn’t call them diatribes, but sort of diametrically opposed journeys of the mind to say, can we play in this area or is it not a safe. You know, you kind of test the boundaries with people a little bit? Well, I mean, is there a fear of being ostracized from, like, a small niche community that if you start being the weird ghost boy, that, like, now none of your friends want to play anymore or the opposite, you attract all the goth chicks? So win.

Win, as it sounds like. Again. Yeah, that’s sort of the. The dynamite that you’re trying to deal with. Do you diffuse the situation, or you use the dynamite in your favor to blow some up and cause a ruckus? And I mean a Nobel Peace Prize. You use the dynamite. It’s what it’s named after. Right, right, right. Yeah. I mean, that’s. That was sort of the. The Wolfgang Paulie talking to Young, and they’re writing all these letters back and forth to each other, so they’re documenting all this stuff. And I had a quote about how I think Young was basically saying, while I’m alive, don’t publish an autobiography about my life.

So he already understood the complexities of a rich, inner spiritual life that could not be written in a linear autobiography where you start with chapter one, birth, and then it ends with death, and then the afterward as well. This is the effect Carl Jung had, the lives of people around him, this sort of thing. So he was already warning against that. And probably because of this phrase that I found, catalytic exteriorization phenomenon, by some guy who translated it into the English in, I think, 1985. So this was the time when Joseph Campbell was on PBS talking to Bill Moyer, and they’re bringing out the.

Was it the power of myth? Series. It was the power of myth, yeah. So this is where I’m now going back and recognizing that I remember reading in the TV Guides. Joseph Campbell Power of Myth Having a sponge like mind, just absorbing all this stuff and knowing that hey Arnold, is what I’m going to watch tonight. But as an adult I’m going to be able to go back to review all of these media things that we have one television in the house. We’re going to watch the Goonies tonight, eat a Big Foot pizza. That’s what we’re doing.

All five of us are sitting there and watching it. But as an adult with multiple screens and more time on my hands, I can pursue other research methodologies in my own time over the course of my lifetime. So where I’m at now is I found the phrase catalytic exterior phenomenon that was attributed to young realizing that as far as search engines and AI and all the search that I could do with what was available to me, you know, during the last month, I did not find that exact word for word translation. So what it was is from that Gerhard Weir translation.

And it, it’s not even considered to be the best. So the actual phrase from Memories, Dreams and Reflections, which was published in 1963 as the English edition says. I was sitting opposite Freud in his library and we were discussing the paranormal. I had defended the idea that such phenomena could connected with the psyche. Freud was of the opinion that they were to be explained solely in terms of misinterpretation or sensory illusion. I had not yet finished my argument when a loud noise came for the bookcase. Some translations say cabinet or wooden cabinet. We both started and Freud looked at me with a startled expression.

There, I said, that’s an example of a so called catalytic exteriorization phenomenon. Freud was startled but then dismissed it as a mere coincidence. So to me that is more of a mythopoetic retelling of the dialogue that Freud and Jung might have had, whether or not they were actually in his office at the time. This goes back to a creative retelling of an event. So when you write a comic book and you know you’ve got a certain amount of panels to get the message across, how do you get directly to the point in the panel with the fewest amount of panels to set it up.

And this short paragraph gets right to the point because it mentions it’s not a mere coincidence. The it could be misinterpretation and it shows Jung’s view of the thing versus Freud’s view of the thing. But as I’ve stated already, this wasn’t their view of the thing. This was another guy’s view of the thing who was writing his book, and then later it was translated to English. So that’s where the actual phrase originated from. Okay, that’s. That’s very specific and interesting. I’m. I’m wondering what do you think of Freud’s stance on that? That about, let’s say, let’s say that you, you called your spiritual advisor when this had happened, and the spiritual advisor is like, oh man, I got this uncle from Germany.

Like, he’s got, he’s got some cool ideas. Let me call him over here. And Freud shows up and Freud’s like, this is you misinterpreting like some kind of a phenomenon and, or like a sensory illusion. Like, would that have just been like, you don’t know what you’re talking about, bro. Like, this happened three times in a row. It’s not that. That would be sort of a black and white either or explanation, which I very quickly found out to be a limited worldview of thinking. So to make things so simple as to shave off all nuance and say, this is clearly demonic because we represent the good thing.

So any. Anything that is an annoyance to me somehow is a spiritual attack would be to say that I would always have to be engaged in warfare on. Or that metaphysical level. You, you could stay at that same metaphysical level and invert things and say like, well, technically in this life, unless we’re in hell already, which is a whole nother discussion, but like in this life right now, wouldn’t it seem that, like, the things that an angel would do to you, it’s. It would almost be being corrected by a parent where it might not feel great.

Like if an angel has to interact with you in this space, it might actually be uncomfortable or, you know, discomforting versus something that provides just nothing but incarnate pleasure in the material realm. Like, like a pure Saturnian urge, maybe that would be more likely to be demonic so that things that scare you or hurt you or shock you could also be good things? And that’s how we’re misinterpreting, like angelic influences, demonic influences, vice versa. Sure. So I will just go right to where my mind is thinking immediately. It’s the idea that because there is children involved, this is on the cusp of puberty and being a teenager, which leads into adulthood because it would.

There are children involved. I wondered at some point if this was sort of the stage show to say, see, the spiritual reality is real and this was all the adults putting on this sort of kind of a live action role play of a spiritual scenario to then cement the idea in our minds, that was a thought at some point to say again, going back to the idea, like, do I. I trust the adults? So in other words, it’s. You’d almost be envisioning like dad dressing up as Santa Claus and putting all of the. The presents under the tree.

Like maybe, maybe the adults are putting on this big show for the sake of the kids. But now there’s a version where adults are going into a house and rearranging furniture just to be like, see, we told you, like this. Spiritual warfare does exist. Exist, and supernatural does exist. I’m saying that was one of the thoughts that came to mind. And any sort of thought that my limited mind could think was not really a pleasant sort of thought to have. So I, I was. If it’s a traumatic experience, how does one cope with that? Or to sort of minimize.

It’s like I did not want to maximize it, I did not want to minimize it. I did not. I did not know the shape of the thing. So my wisdom at that point became I don’t have the tools to measure or to talk about or explain. So that’s just one of the mental images that’s going to be filed away for now and maybe I can completely forget about it and then it’s fine, go on with things. Apparently not, because it sounds like it’s. It’s not still tucked away in that file collecting dust. Correct. So there are other instances of things being filed away.

I mean, little little things written down on sheets of paper, little little journals, memories and. Okay, so I will say I. That the thought that writing things down makes them real or true in some way. So this is the idea of like, it’s like a hyper Sigil or something. Having the idea that if I write things down, they would need to be a true account, meaning not clouded by my imagination or my emotions or what my favorite interpretation of the thing would be. Which seems impossible literally, because this is the same thing with even eyewitnesses in court cases that you just can’t get over the fact that people patch different things, like the way that our senses work.

The very nature is of an act of patching things together, but. And filling in gaps that we can’t fill ourselves. Correct. So in watching the media of the time, all the like unexplained events, and it’s a mystery or it’s a miracle. These sorts of chicken soup for the soul programs where they’d collect real life anecdotes and then they’d reenact them dramatically. I would see a Lot of those shows. And I laugh at them because I. I immediately kind of understood that the writer, director, producer had a say in what the event was going to be. So it wasn’t the actual event being described.

So there was a separation there. Give me an example. The memories of watching, I think, PAX TV at the time where they have it’s a miracle. And the story headline would be, a mother forgets to set her parking brake and her infant toddler crawls behind the car to follow a ball. And then the tire goes over the infant and the mom races out and has superhuman strength to lift up the tire and grab the baby in that. And it’s a miracle. So where did the strength come from? The weak mother who doesn’t have the arm strength and in another situation could not lift the vehicle.

Vehicle. So then my thought at that point was the tire itself was not causing damage to the child because it was the appearance of such. So the distance might have been misjudged where it was like the tire was over the. No, it might have been like three feet away. But now the story is told in such a way where it was a miracle. I saved the child. And then due to the retelling of the story, the believers in the situation want the miracle to be in a miracle. So the details of it are shaped and influenced by the retelling of it to make it more miraculous over time.

This is actually a really good example though, because I remember this exact same, like, word for word, the exact same story about the mother and the infant and she can lift the car are. Where does she get all this superhuman strength that you could be completely secular, atheist or agnostic. And this story still was like, yeah, man, just. It’s crazy that it shows you how, like, how the human body can work and like the mysteries of what we don’t know or capable of, yada, yada, like, it didn’t even necessarily have to be interpreted as some kind of a religious miracle.

So I think everyone went through that same exact scenario. And some people are just like, man, it’s crazy what, you know, science can show us what we’re capable of versus man. It’s crazy how God can work through us. That’s really the individual having encountered the, I’ll say myth or the fable or the story, and then that feeds their need in that moment. So if there’s a moment of spiritual cris, this and that story gives them the idea that you can be strong when you feel weak. And when something. When a challenge that seems insurmountable arises out of no cause of your own.

Again, we’re talking cause and responsibility and blame. It’s like things just happen. You will be ready and then you do the thing thing. Don’t be afraid of your lack of courage like boy Scouts, always be prepared type of a thing. This is why the spiritual guidance is, you know, remember these Bible verses, listen to these music, ingest this content because life is going to be difficult. And these, these sets of tools will then provide the strength and the courage and the comfort. This is sort of like the power of positive thinking might get into like Neville Goddard and listening to Affirmat, how those have real world effects in the physiology of the brain.

Neuroplasticity, this type of thing. How if, if we were to use neuroplasticity as a metric, do you think that there are certain Christian denominations that have more neuroplasticity and others less? Yeah, absolutely. There are a lot of different churches. There’s a lot of different. So when I say church in my mind I’m speaking of the building in your community where people physically go and meet. Now they will describe all of those people together collectively as the capital C church. I’m talking about a physical building that has a Sunday service and the people there are constituted the congregation, that sort of thing.

Your question of are certain communities, church communities, congregants having more neuroplasticity and the ability to handle new technologies and thoughts and things? Certainly there are some of them take on a more positive, life affirming approach to say we are here to be alongside of you through, you know, births and marriages and funerals, these types of things, that’s for a good. That’s where you find the community. Now what seems to be more popular is the opposite of that. Here’s the deal. The book of Revelation talks about prophetic end times. And because of these politicians all aligning and the moon being a blood moon, well, let’s not be afraid.

But now they’re invoking the element of fear and uncertainty. So now by providing answers to prophetic questions and giving a framework for evaluating that, that attracts a different vibe, which makes the tribe a little bit different. So I want to put words in your mouth. So here’s how I’m interpreting that almost if you were to isolate this from the religion, just connotations of it, that positive thinking might be more neuroplastic than negative thinking or that like doom thinking and that doom thinking might lead to less neuroplasticity. The example I’ll give is religious substance dependence Counseling. So if people are using substances, drugs, alcohol specifically, and have a chemical dependence to the thing, the result of having a spiritual component to the therapy, having a spiritual, religious sort of, there’s a thing greater than I am that I can lean upon tends to have a better result where people aren’t reoffending or returning to what their addiction was.

So this idea of setting the captors free from their drug pornographic, whatever addictions that might form around life is tough. Going to a spiritual advice. It might even be court ordered at that point where if it’s a court ordered thing and they’re like, well, you gotta get your life together. Well, there’s a bed at the teen challenge. This is a real thing that I’m aware of. It’s a teen and adult challenge. They do chemical dependency courses where it’s a live in community and you go and you have a bunk bed and then you go through the rituals of hygiene and then cleaning your mind, cleaning your body and then expelling the chemical dependence thing and then having to figure out, well, also they have to consider how do you wean people off of these highly addictive substances? So you have to have that and the spiritual component.

So it’s not just one or the other. So I don’t know, it’s. It’s an interesting concept, one that I’ve actually, I want to say struggle is the wrong word. I’ll say struggled with. Is that the only real options? And I’m, I’m being hyperbolic a little bit, but it’s. But in terms of like the actual options, it might as well be the only option for N A or AA or a number of other similar groups. Is this, this overall requirement of you have to believe in a pat in something that it’s more powerful than yourself. And when I got into like a very annoying, nitpicky situation in a, I’ll just say court ordered version of have a new 10.

One of these, one of the, one of the guys running one of these things. He was just like, he was like look kid, the president. Does the president have more power than you? I was like, yeah. And he was like, there you go. Like, let’s go to the next step. Like, so some people are. Can think of it as like a very utilitarian thing pulling a rank card, right? Like, like something has more power than you. But I always interpreted that as that you have to believe in some sort of a supernatural higher than. Like you can’t just straight up be, be a true atheist and then go through N A Or go through AA and.

And I almost wondered if they shooting themselves in the foot a little bit of like think about all the people we could be helping if we didn’t isolate those that didn’t have like a, like a, a spiritual, I guess door open versus maybe I’m thinking about it all wrong. Like you can’t, like you can’t actually fix somebody’s addictions without God or without religion or without this concept of something higher than yourself. But I, I don’t know. I feel that that would be objectively wrong. There have to be people out there that have gotten over an addiction that it didn’t rely on spiritual means.

Or is that like I’m just ignoring the guardian angels? We’re talking paranoid American occult topics. So I will say that the aspect of the egregore is already implanted in the person’s life life. So the person that would go towards a Christian discipleship program to overcome their chemical dependency. Being a, is a chemical dependency. It’s a substance. You put it in your body, it changes your body. And now you’re told you can’t put that in your body anymore. And you choose because of the insurmountable sort of hole you’ve dug yourself into. Now it’s somebody else’s constraint concern.

So the, so the state steps in to say you’ve got kids, you got a family, you got that, you got things that you are responsible for. We need to turn you back into a executive decision machine where you can decide your own life. Because there’s already the egregore built into that person’s mindset. Their neuroplasticity having hardened around certain aspects of faith and religion. Meaning the book is the Bible that sets out the morality for a culture and it’s the Good Book and God is good and the Trinity maybe, but having that basic understanding of, you know, I pledge allegiance to the flag, one nation under God, God, government, this type of thing.

Those aggregors exist in the mind, so they work because the person already has that language set installed in their mind. So if someone comes from an atheist family and it’s all atheism and the chemical dependency thing is going to be a challenge. They may find faith and spirituality to be beneficial at some point or they might just have hardened against it entirely. I’m specifically talking about people who have that set of religious ideas already implanted in their mind. Because we’re America and we say the Pledge of Allegiance, we say under God, it’s on our coinage. Everyone understands that, you know, this is a God fearing nation, our government, this type of thing, separation of church and state aside, there’s an understanding of this is our cultural heritage.

And this is what? Well, a little bit, I mean my, maybe completely incorrect interpretation of this, but the, a lot of the founding fathers were sort of deists as opposed to some specific denomination and I guess one extra level out of me making more assumptions. But my interpretation of deism is sort of like if I have to use Toy Stories, the example, Andy’s gone away to college, he’s not playing with these toys anymore. So now these toys are left contemplating like our creator. Did our creator abandon us? Is it because we’re bad? Is there something that we can do to, to correct this? And in reality, again, my interpretation of deism is just like Andy just doesn’t care anymore.

He’s like got not God made his thing. He played in his sandbox and now he’s off playing in some other cooler sandbox and we’re just kind of an out, maybe not even an afterthought. It’s just like, oh, I think I left that box in the attic in my parents house, whatever. If they want to sell, they can sell it. Like, and I’m not saying I’m a deist, but that’s my interpretation of deism and that’s my interpretation of the true religion of some of the founding fathers, at least relative to what someone might think as like a pious Catholic, Protestant, Pentecostal approach where it’s, it’s maybe more involved like Jesus is here with me, God is, is accessible to me versus I don’t know where God went.

He went out for a pack of smokes and he hasn’t been back in 20,000 years. And this will circle around the greater mysteries, the deeper mysteries of this sort of understanding happening. And there’s maybe two worldviews on this position of the mysteries. Is, is it a puzzle or is it a mystery? Meaning if all of this is a puzzle that can be solved, then you could do a metaphysical detective work to figure out what caused this and what is the source of this and then it can be solved and through like talk therapy and then you can solve the thing and then it’s resolved.

I’m more inclined to understand the mysteries as something to be experienced and pondered and there might never be resolution. I think there’s a third path here too if I can just inject one. But okay, there’s the accept everything because it’s a mystery. There’s the approach of like let’s, let’s break this thing down, deconstruct it, find the formula so that we can like quote unquote solve it. But then there’s also a version that’s like, hey, if we can find out how this, this thing works, we can make this run. You know, my lights, I can use this to get my job done faster.

Like I can exploit this, this phenomenon, whether or not it’s divine. Like if it’s objectively real, then exploit it and it can turn into the new fossil fuel. And that’s somewhere along what I might call a middle path method. Trying to avoid the extremities, trying to not force polarities because as soon as you begin to force polarities then you’re going to have magnetism or the opposite where things will attract or push away from each other. Other. Let me so with, with you mentioned dichotomy earlier, you mentioned polarization. So I feel like I’m not putting this too much on you, that you, you can appreciate those flags being planted so that you know what the lay of the land is that you know, like okay, here’s my relative distance from this other approach.

So let me just ask you in, in a more specific way. Do you think that Aleister Crowley was a net positive or a net negative on humanity? Like his very existence in his works. So having existed and published his writings and his experimentations with drugs and alcohol and mind altering substances, popularized beyond just published, but popularized? Certainly, certainly. If not him, then someone else, right? At some point these ideas would emerge and maybe it’s from a third mind, maybe it’s again this idea of a hallucination or a found in translation thing when cultures cross. And I, I recognize now when we were talking about the faith based drug and alcohol recovery program, well, maybe you’re not Caucasian, white blonde haired American with a Christian background.

So you might be like, well you know, I don’t want to, don’t want to go hang out with all the drunk Karens in the drunk tank Karen tank over there and they’re going to read their Bible. That’s just not my flavor. That’s recognizing that what I’m understanding is a cultural crossroads where there’s this mix, mix, mix of like a cosmopolitan thing where you got three flavors in your ice cream. So you have chocolate, vanilla and strawberry, but then you don’t eat them separately. You stir it up, it all melts together in the melting pot. And now what is the flavor profile? The Neapolitan.

Yeah, the Neapolitan. I’m saying cosmopolitan because that’s how we describe a city, the ice cream is Neapolitan. Well, who brought that about to the city? You know, did the Italians bring pizza to Chicago? Or who claims that sort of idea of the invention? So to answer your question of Aleister Crowley, if not him, it would have been someone else. So then we’re talking about the idea of occult currents of like a river flowing and tributaries and like the, the separation of the fresh water and the salt water. That’s basically maybe a religious organization to say we are a fresh water.

We. Our church name is living Water. We’re not about that oceanology, that, that salty stuff where again, our talking songbook is named Salty after the Psalms, the books of the Bible. It has nothing to do with saltiness or bitterness or going against what is a positive sort of Christian lifestyle. So all these words have meaning and they’re intertwined and interchanged and inter. Like trying to convey a message. This is where there’s biblical authority and you have commentaries, the exegesis on the books. To say this is as close to the authorial intent as we can get based off of all this other providing evidence.

So this is the best theological interpretation and we’re sticking with it. Other churches aren’t really concerned about that because they just want to have the fellowship and have the marriage celebrations and do the baptisms and this type of thing. You, you can definitely dance. Well, just because I’m still trying to pin you down on any yes or no, true or false answer. So the idea of like rock and roll music causing people to rock and roll. Right. I discovered that if your feet are not leaving the ground, then you’re just kind of moving around a little bit.

It’s not actually dancing. So the definition of dancing would be moving your feet to the beat and moving around. But if I planted and just doing a shoulder movement. Well, but if you don’t have feet though, you could still dance. What about a break dancer that’s spinning around on their back? Are they doing it to a D.C. d.C. Talk song? Is karma involved? Are they? If it helps you, then yes, guess. Right, right, right. But I get, I get point being that I’m really interested if, if you think that. So for example, Alistair Crowley, I was like, is he a net positive, net negative? Your answer is like, well, if not him, then it would have been someone else.

But. But I. Is there no answer from you on whether Aleister Crowley himself was a net negative or net positive? Like it could have been just some boring dude, dude that didn’t popularize it as well, as Aleister Crowley did. Right. So the evidence that exists for me having this opinion exists through the, the Weaving Spiders, occult symposiums that were held on Saturday nights, people would gather together and when I pitched the idea that, hey, this is our 93rd episode, well, what does 93 mean? It can only mean this one thing. So this is what we’re talking about tonight, everybody.

Are you ready? There were certain people who were saying that they would not publicly declare that he was a positive force and that they would only poo poo him to say that clearly the disclaimer needs to be that we are not advocating for his ideas. Okay? My very explanation, my very push to explore the ideas because they are in the public is evidence of me saying that clearly this is a tool and some people could cut their fingers off if it’s misused, but to hold it back from adult conversation or to say that it’s clearly evil and wickedness, this I’ve never gone on the record to say that I’ve said these ideas exist.

And as a metaphysical physician sort of working with these tools for healing and wholeness and wellness, clearly the tool set offered through Crowley’s rituals had, have been catalysts for consciousness expansion. Now whether or not someone’s consciousness expanded to the point where their morality tended more towards a gray area and then they had rationalization for committing acts of terrible things, again, that goes back to personal responsibility, right? Just because Crowley wrote about some doing some of these things for you to then go and do them and then say, well I can do it because this guy wrote a book about doing it, so therefore I’m justified in doing it.

So I could see how some people would see that as net negative. And let’s just not even bring him up. Let’s. Or if you do bring him up, make sure you condemn him. There’s also a version of this again, like I guess my 12 or 13 year old mind where there was a genuine concern that if I went and read that Anton lavey Satanic Bible, which I know now is it was just kind of like a, an Internet troll post a little bit, but that there was like a very real thought in my mind that you know, I could go to hell.

If I go and I, if I purchase that book and I bring it home and I read it, it, that there’s like something bad could happen. Me, I, I would get possessed or a poltergeist or I’d get an F, or I’d fall down and scrape my knee or something bad could happen to me and that that would be the reason. Like that thing, what would have been the catalyst. And I didn’t even know who the hell Aleister Crowley was at this time. Aleister Crowley has. If you feel that way about Anton Lave, then you could definitely feel that way a hundredfold hold against Aleister Crowley.

So it’s, it’s a very interesting point for me when I hear about other people that are similar, that if they talk about them, they have to put all these disclaimers out. It would almost be if you were doing a, like, hey, did the Holocaust really happen? Episode. And then you’d have to open it up with a whole bunch of disclaimers like, look, we’re not Nazis. We don’t believe in Hitler. Like, like all these things you have to like, make sure that you’re not, not associating with this personality. So Crowley is definitely one of those with. When you’re talking about like religion or occultism.

But is. Do you. So you’re more neutral on this. It seems like. Is there anyone at all, from all of history that you’re thinking, like, that guy was a net negative. Like, we never should have had that guy. Yeah, I’ve thought about that. As far as like, claims to being the most evil and wickedest man on earth, I, I would not attribute that to Aleister Crowley or Robert Plant or Led Zeppelin or let’s say like Genghis Khan or, or, I don’t know, Ozzy Osbourne to some people, could be seen as a very frightening figure because of his stage shows.

And then, you know, his final appearance of Mama I’m Coming Home is like, you’re going to tear up watching that. And then you realize this guy was an artist. And that Mom, I’m coming home thing, that’s going to emotionally move a person. Person. Now someone who doesn’t want to be emotionally moved by a secular artist is just not going to watch any Ozzy Osbourne to begin with. So someone who’s not willing to read in his own words, Diary of your jug fiend, Aleister Crowley. That person is severely limited in their tool set. And would I trust them with greater metaphysical mysteries? No, I would not.

I like that. Honestly, man, I think that you’re, you’re helping me slowly define a bar that like, I would prefer that everyone in my, my talking circle or anyone that I have a conversation with has both read the entire Bible and has also read Diary of a Drug Fiend and has an. An equal opinion on both. Well, I mentioned like, Carl Jung’s Memories, Dreams, Reflections that’s been trans to English and now there’s audiobook version. So it’s, it’s more easily accessible. I know there’s a lot of people who will talk Carl Jung and maybe call his name Jung.

And, you know, it’s like they’ve only ever in their own mind, read the work in their own mind. They never talked to anybody else about it. And then the way they pronounce certain words, they clearly haven’t gone to a Carl Jung fan club club to understand. Well, we say young. It’s not Jung. There’s people that say Alistair Crawley. And then people who know him, it’s Crow. So if they’re purposely or mispronouncing the person’s name, that’s sort of a. A red flag of like, are they purposely doing that? But now the idea I want to talk about before we forget it, is this idea, idea of authorial intent and like historical revisionism.

So going back and watching certain movies on Disney plus, for example, there’s going to be screen with text to say that this was a relic of its time. And cultural sensitivities have changed. Certain aspects of the movie have been changed to reflect modern sensibility. Now, I understand that children are voracious consumers and they just want to watch all the cartoons. They don’t care about what it means, they just want to see it. And a parent’s like, okay, that’s fine. But at some point, if we watch Star wars and we have to settle the argument of hand soap, the content of his character, There’s a scene in a cantina where, you know, his little phaser.

No, he doesn’t, he doesn’t shoot first because the version I saw was him reacting to the bad guy and using his weapon as self defense. Yeah, but you saw the modified Zapruder footage that’s missing like the 13 frames. Right. So the weaponization of only presenting one version of a story is very upsetting to the artist. There’s a movie called Phantom of the Opera, Brian De Palma film, Familiar with it. You mean movie based on the play? Yes, the Phantom of the Opera film. De Palma had put in this idea of Swan Song being one of the names in there.

And then one of the Led Zeppelin people are like, no, we’re gonna, we’re gonna use that idea. So at some point there’s a timeline of who came up with the idea idea first and when the film was released on the big screen. Before it could be released on the big screen because of legal reasons, they had to go back and change what would have been the definitive version, final edit of the film. And they had to mask over the swan song imagery. It was just in the background. But they had to change that for fear of being reprimanded.

So then, before the movie could be released, because of the fear of a legalistic sort of attack on the film creators in the company, because of the commercial interest, they volunteered to change the thing on the own. On their own. Now, recently, fans have recompiled, deleted scenes and released the definitive fan version of the film. And it’s been shown in theaters unofficially. It. Can you even have a definitive fan edition because fan implies, like, the entire audience. So all it takes is one person to say, I wouldn’t have done it that way. And now it’s not the definitive fan version anymore.

Work. Right. So now there are multiple versions with slight tweaks in the experience. Well, just like. Go on. I was gonna say just like there’s 40,000 denominations of Christianity, there’s, like, 40,000 different cuts of different movies where everyone thinks, like, this is the version of Star wars. That’s the real one. Or this is the version of Phantom of the Opera, that’s the real one. Right. Was there some talk of, like, release the Snider cut at some point? And people had eyes. W. Just. So now. So now the idea exists that because we have the technology right now to take a video file and alter it and then publish it in different versions, that we could experience things differently.

Now, this applies to video games as well, where there are fan hacks and home brews of commercially released games. Kind of like the Bible versions of the Nintendo games you were talking about. Indeed. So you could present one version of a media to one child, and then the other child in your own family could see a different version of it, and then you, you know, destroy the evidence. And then later on, they would talk about what they saw, and then they’d get into an argument over the details of the thing. Well, I feel. I mean, that’s a real scenario that could have happened from what you were describing.

Like, you get different edits, or one person sees the theatrical release, another person sees and. But now we’ve got the same version where, like, with AI Changing the media that we’re consuming, that literally everybody will have seen a different version that just, like, just slightly catered it to their perspective. So maybe you get the same script or maybe the. The general plot points or, like, there will be some kind of consistency. But your version of when you go and see Titanic 2 and my version of when I see Titanic 2 to that there will be different enough that we won’t be able to like, really discuss the small details, but we might be able to discuss the general premise and that that’ll.

It’ll be not the exception, but the rule. So I bring up the tone policing, like microaggressions. Like your tone right now is just a little bit loud. Bring it down. Speak to me gently. Okay, thank you. The tone of a movie can change based off of one little edit. You know who shoots first. You just flip, flip the frames. Like this scene. In this scene, no A goes first or B goes first. Or the firing of the gun. I mean, that’s pulling the trigger. Who’s responsible for pulling the trigger? And were they. Were they the criminal in that situation because they caused harm, or were they protecting someone’s life? That changes the intent of the thing.

So the author writes the story with a certain tone in mind. The movie Hackers had a certain soundtrack and there are certain jokes in it that made certain characters a little bit more goofy. Someone didn’t like that and preferred it to be a more serious picture. So certain jokes were removed, certain soundtracks were changed, and now it’s a much more mature picture for the film Hackers Now. Side note, I love the movie in all of its forms because I’m a fan of it. I’m gonna want to watch different versions of it, and little changes in it are a joy for me to see because I don’t want to see the same movie twice.

And I can appreciate the variations. I’ve. I honestly think that that is the. The new way that we’re headed with media. Just on its own tangent, but let’s say that your favorite movies, Phantom of the Opera, or if my move, I’ll say mine, mine’s Demolition Man. Like, at a certain point, there’s one version of watching your favorite movie when you, like, you know all the lines and you know what to expect that satisfies one part. But you’ll never get that same feeling of like discovering a new scene or like something that takes you by surprise. And that is what the new media seems to be promising is that, hey, would you like it that every single time you watch Phantom of the Opera, there’s a new guest celebrity walk on.

That might be a minor role, it might be a major role. And. And that every single time a new actor or actress comes out onto the scene scene, you know that now there’s another version of Phantom of the Opera that you’ll eventually be able to watch, whether you care or not. But if you like that artist now, all of a sudden, now there’s a reason, like, oh, my God, this new actor is out on the scene. I can’t wait to go back and watch my favorite movie again because now they’ll be in it. Well, this is like, you know, I.

If I’m writing an autobiography on my life, I don’t want to write it now and have the paint dry because I still have. Have more life to live. So if I’m writing a story and I just want to, like, cement certain events and then reframe them in a certain way, where I control the tone of the story in my authorized autobiography, that might have unintended consequences down the line because of retro causation and the idea that the past is not in cement. Like, physically, whatever happened in the past due to this conversation today could change the tone and tenor.

Like, literally change the tone and tenor events in the past because we’re reframing them now with authorial intent and again, authority to say, this is my life and I’m taking control of it so it will conform to my will. Are you down to do a little bit of PCP with me? Pcp? Yeah, you know me. Hey, conspiracy buffs. I double dare you to take some pcp. The Paranormal Conspiracy Pro Probe. On your marks. Get set and go from 1 to 10. Where would you rate the validity, feasibility, reasonability of cryogenics? Freezing the entire body or the brain and.

And thawing it out somehow, either now or in the future, that. That this is something that we could practically do in theory. Like, how hopeful are you on a scale from 1 to 10 that this is something that humans will do? I’d give it a 10 because my dad went through the process and it saved his life. Okay, well, let me. Let me. Reese, let me restate cryogenics. This would be like freezing your entire body, brain, everything, and then thawing you back out in, I don’t know, a month or, you know, know that reasonably. Right now, the technology we have would imply you would die from being turned into an ice cube and that we don’t have a way to bring you back.

So. Or I guess I’m asking two things. I’m asking can we go farther than that right now, or do you think we can ever go farther than that in the future? Yeah, the process of cooling the body to be able to work on it in your own timeline, it does buy you more time in terms of putting someone in a chamber and freezing their body and then extracting wealth from the family infinitely until they unfreeze them seems to be the scam for me. So I’m making the distinction to say that in practice where someone has a cardiac event to cool the body immediately to input cool fluids in their body, so you could do work on the heart.

That will save you time, precious time to bring the person back to life. That is, is. That is real. Putting Han Solo and freezing him and then shipping them across the galaxy and then waking him up. That is science fiction in terms of selling it. It’s a. It seems to be a scam because the business creates the business that grieving family members want their relative to come back and they’re the ones paying it. So it’s. So there’s a financial interest there. So great point. So. So give me a number though, from 1 to 2. 10. 10 for the medical procedure.

Negative 10 for the hand solo expression of it. How about the law of attraction? If I wear certain pheromones, women are going to like me more. No law of attraction of like attracts like that. If you go around putting positive energy into the universe, that it comes back to you. You know the. The Secret movie that got really big in the early 2000s. Thousands. Not that expression of it. Not the little coffee table book of like the Secret, but the hermetic principles behind it. Yeah, clearly. 10. What’s the difference between those two? There is a more childlike wonder in saying this is my wish for this thing in my life that I need versus the materialistic output of saying I need much more than what I currently have, wanting all the health and all the wealth and all the attraction to all the material things.

How about the concept that crystals have magic powers? The properties of crystals are metaphysical, certainly. We saw that with the Pope. He touched a big ice cube rock thing and that was very metaphysical of him. Is that. Is that a ten? There are fakers, certainly. I’m seven and a half. How about I’m making some of these ones up? But I just wanted. I wanted to see how receptive you are to any of these being. True, true that the Black Plague was deliberately engineered by an earlier form of population control. The Black Plague being some form of illness that is isn’t quite explained by science or religion, but causes people to become ill and it spreads like pandemic.

Yeah, bubonic plague. But like, like the general conception was that it was. Was poor waste, poor refuse sort of collection in addition to rats, in addition to poor food preparation, in addition to the fact that microbiology wasn’t necessarily considered a thing and no one washed their hands. And I mean, I’m sure that you’ve, you’ve heard all the different explanations of how something like the bubonic plague originally was created, but all of those imply it was purely nature at work. Work. And I’ve never really gotten deep in any rabbit holes that stated like maybe that was, you know, someone meddling.

Whether it was intentional or they just put the bat and the pangolin into the room and things just worked out on their own, but that there might have been human intervention where someone, you know, like they were an unintentional arsonist almost. When certain land owners build tenements and they stack them up and they want all the undesirable into one small area, they already know that not everyone’s going to have a equal opportunity outcome. So they’re already setting them up for failure in a city planning situation. So from that perspective, the people that make that decision and enforce that decision are understanding what the consequences are going to be of putting too many people in too small of an area.

Okay, where’s your number on that then? So black plague was engineered. Engineered in terms of getting people together in a city area with poor hygiene and poor oxygen. Yeah. In that explanation, that’s, that’s a certain nine. How about the. My like trying to figure out a better way to ask this. The minds were wrong about 2020. So either they were wrong or we were wrong about them saying that the world was going to end in 2012 or that we were wrong just about the year and the world still is going to end. There’s like a bunch of different variations of this.

But just in the general premise, like do should we even care about what any Mayans have to say about any end of the world situation? Like what? Just rate Mayan prophecies in general from 1 to 10, I guess. I guess, you know, again, the intelligent leaders of the tribes understanding that given enough time, creative ideas will and lead to destruction. Understanding that as they discover more and more plant substance, what, whatever it is, over time there’s going to be more ways to create more deaths. So an understanding that at some point history is going to converge towards the end of time.

They knew that their civilization could only exist before, you know, boats show up and they have to fight a battle to preserve their own culture. I think that’s kind of what they were getting at. I need a number. The Mayan calendar, 1212 months in a year. Okay. Not 2312. How about the concept of. I’m gonna just put a list of different Buildings, you can take your pick as to which one you gravitate towards, but that the pyramids of Giza or that old ancient cathedrals that have very detail like Gothic style cathedrals that they’re either capable of or fashioned after constructions that were literally harvesting energy and not just like people were in there singing and emotional energy was being channeled, but that like the construction itself and the placement of the buildings.

I think you know what I’m getting at without me having to overqualify it. Right, Right. So the. The size of the pyramid working as a factory creates a bigger chemical thing that they were working on. Right. Do it in a home lab and a small. Or that a cathedral has certain angles and reverberations and that it’s also being used to channel and that the spires on old churches are actually antennas that are used to direct energy, essentially equating masonry, not Freemasonry, but just masonry in general and construction to like batteries and capacitors and things that. That objectively harness real electricity and energy.

That word energy is doing a lot of heavy. I guess. So let’s say electricity first and we can walk backwards from electricity. Does that. Is that fair? Yeah, yeah. As far as it being like electricity free energy, this type of thing. Sure. Free energy that. That someone can use for a practical mechanical means to like run a mill or turn a light on or whatever. Some. Some very practical use that they can then capitalize on. I do think that there was a practical use built into the infrastructure that would make people’s lives easier. You know, the workload would be reduced due to the function and the.

The shape and the building the blueprints of a few thing. Okay, well, let’s. Let’s take the. The pyramids of Giza as an example of that. That if it had. No, if you suppose that there was no practical benefit to this, then it just seems like a monumental. Waste is the wrong word, but like a waste of energy and effort in that it was superfluous. Right. It was some. It was something done just to be like, look at all the time and energy effort that we wasted because of how great we are and how much time and resources we have.

Versus it actually improved life for everyone. It was like almost an altruistic project that we just don’t understand. You have. Do you have any suggestions or thoughts on what that would be? I’ve had the same thought about Bitcoin and what work and problem it’s solving to say that I don’t think it was doing random mathematical computations. Just for mining Bitcoin coin. I think the computational power of the thing describes the purpose of the thing. Like what it does is what it does. It’s not the after effect that we’re obtaining. So the form and function of the shape of the pyramid is very specific to what it’s there for, which is taking chemicals and combining them in the necessary way to feed a growing population to create the fertilizer needed for the foods necessary to replenish is correct.

Because this is new to me, this, this angle. So that the Great Pyramid or one of the pyramids was potentially just like a pharmaceutical lab, essentially. Yeah. Changing complex Bones. Where, where does. Are we talking alchemical or are we talking like, like Dupont? More like Dupont. Like physically there’s a. And that’s how they would support the growing population. Interesting. Where, where does this, like what’s the, what’s the bird’s eye view of this operation? That they build a pyramid and then input is X and output is chemicals and GMO and better seeds or what I’m referencing Land of Chem book, Jeffrey.

Okay, go on. You know, I leave it to him being the expert and he, he, he, he explained it in such a way that, yeah, it made sense. Clearly. It’s not used for a tomb. There’s. It’s not for dead bodies. It’s not a monument to the, the pharonic governance of the, the great families. There, There was a, there was a practical use for the people there to increase the population, which might lead to like the military use of saying we need to defend ourselves, meaning we need a larger population because we need boots on the ground to defend invaders and that sort of thing.

So that was a practical purpose of it. So they got the technology to figure out, well, to, to maximize our food production, we need fertilizers because they recognize that you leach all the nutrients from the soil, you’re not going to have the return. So quickly figured out how the lightning strike and the energy in the air could then be funneled and trans use. Using that as a large science chemical factory seems to be the, the best explanation for why it was built. Any ideas on the practical nature of the Nazca line as being viewed from above or like, I mean, why are they there to begin? Is the purpose of them to be viewed from above or is there another possible practical scenario for them to even exist? I do believe that there were airships of some form.

So we did have people viewing things from high elevation. I wouldn’t say like airplane, but more like a helium balloon. Type of a thing. And they recognize that we can raise that up, heat it up and expands and we can use a hidden birds type of a thing. That, that’s, that’s the later adaptation of it. But there clearly were flying machines in some way. I’m not saying UFOs, nuts and bolts from outer space. I’m saying, man, figure out quickly that birds fly. Let’s try and figure out how we can get a bird’s eye view. So at that point, if they’re, if they’re having that view from below, marking the lines in there, it could have just been an art installation, man.

Do you think that Lee Harvey Oswald had any influence on JFK’s death? Even in like a metaphysical way? He was at the place, he was at the set for the, for the presentation. Whatever they’re doing there, physically he was there. If he wasn’t there, I don’t think it would have happened the same way. Would it have been someone else? I don’t think it could have been anyone else. I think it had to be him. Him just being there or him actually taking a shot. That’s the mystery I’m not here to solve today. Okay, a fair point.

Are we living in a simulation? There are levels of simulation placed upon our reality that we deal with every day. Sometimes it’s just bureaucracy. Okay, let me, let me update that. Are we living in a computer generated simulation? And I, and let me clear me qualify. I don’t mean that we’re still living in a simulation by a vague description and that also computers are involved with it. I mean like the simulation that we perceive as reality. What’s the chances that that was created by a computer before we were around? And that’s, you know, this is the naaa.

I believe in a greater power. And you’re like, well, I believe that we are all living in a computer simulation. So maybe, maybe that computer is the greater power. Like do you think that that’s a chance of that happening? But can God be a computer? That’s a greater mystery. I’m still thinking about. I haven’t, haven’t landed on a conclusion to that. So I don’t really have a number today. We’ve abandoned numbers, I think a while ago. I don’t know if you’ve been paying attention last like three or four. We’re just right. Like thumbs up and thumbs down approved, I guess.

Yeah, we don’t even need that, you know, the simulation idea again, one tool. If all I have is a hammer, everything that sticks out become a nail and I hit it down. If the tool set is simulation theory, I’m not going to trust the guy who’s like, yeah, man, it’s a simulation. And that’s all he ever tells me. Me. It’s like there are other mythopoietic worldviews that describe it in different terms. So I would approach it as more of a dream. I wouldn’t use the word artificial digital computer simulation. I would say it functions as consciousness dream.

That’s where I would lean more towards. All right, I’m gonna, I’m gonna end it on, on this one. That’s the most important dude me. And I hope I can qualify it enough to get it out of vague answer area. Right? So let’s, let’s, let’s make a couple of assumptions and suspend disbelief. Just for the premise of answering these questions, let’s say that there is a hell and that people can go to hell. That I’m not going to tell you what the rules are or what the ratios are or anything, but let’s just say objectively there is a hell and people can go to hell, and that’s all that we know.

And for all we know, no one’s ever actually gone there, but it’s a possibility. Or maybe a thousand or, you know, people go every second. Who knows if the, if that’s what’s on the table. How many people do you think that you know are going to hell? An afterlife where people are punished for being bastards in this life or being just absolutely represent, reprehensible. Or maybe there’s like a Swedish hell where it’s truly like rehabilitation, but it, but nonetheless it is a, a, a non purgatory step. Right. It’s not a limbo. It’s that you’re gonna go and do some hard time or get cooked a little bit and come back with some stories to tell.

I know there are people that have the opinion that this life is a simulation, it’s a karmic. And they are reincarnated to this earthly plane of existence because they’re held, because they were needing to learn a lesson. Let’s pretend that we’re older than 15 though, and we’ve already been through all of those motions and cycles and thoughts and that we’ve discovered that objectively we are in a regular, you know, like terrestrial realm, but there is an extraterrestrial realm of heaven. That is a possibility. Are we also saying that there’s the opposite of that, meaning there’s a reward place, like a heavenly place for, for people to celebrate their victories in life.

So that there’s the equal and opposite balance of saying at the end of your life, there’s a scale of judgment and you’re tipped 59, like 49, 51. And that decides, you know, heaven or hell for the afterlife. I get. I mean, I don’t know if, if that is a requirement, but I guess you, the way that you describe that if you get 49 versus 51, you’re. You’re taking a left instead of a right at this, like, exit or whatever. I. I guess let’s just say, yes, let’s say that objectively there is a, A black and white, an up and down, a good and bad at the end of the.

And again. And let me just ins. Instead of having to fish around for it. I guess part of the reason that I even asked this is like, like, is there something that somebody could do that is so egregious? And again, going back to the, the unforgivable sin of blasphemy of the holies. Who even knows what that actually is? Or if we can even do it right? There’s not even anything that says, and here’s how you do that. Because I guess explaining how to do it might be the same as doing the thing. Who, who knows? But I’m really curious, like, is there a thing, is there an actual thing you can do do that would be considered an unforgivable sin? Or that there’s something that you can do that unless you say you’re sorry and you mean it and you look God right in the eye when you say that you’re sorry, that you go to hell because you didn’t follow the rules, I have to say, yes, there, there has to be consequences for this life.

So I’m just going to agree and say, yeah, there, there has to be some sort of afterlife scenario where you are punished for your misdeeds in this life. I think this world requires it to function. Because if it’s all selfish people who at the end of their life don’t have any sort of weighing of the scales of their heart, then this experiment has been a failure. This simulation version has been a failure because of the selfishness and the psychopathy that is rewarded in this life. Means the Mayans figured it out, that it’s going to end at some point.

It can’t go on forever because of this aspect of evil, this antichrist, this anti life scenario where a corporation led by one figurehead is going to decide that people need to be in tenements so that the black plague will Sort them out to reduce the stress on the food systems. That sort of belief that there is nothing, no higher purpose for living this life and that it’s not a mystery to be experienced or a puzzle to solve, but rather biochemical signals in the brain that creates a hallucination of spiritual ecstatic experiences does not work in terms of my experience of life.

Hey, you’ve got a great show called the Deliberating Dog Face dude that every week I think you guys get together and there’s a rough interpretation of the format of like a debate over something being real, not being real for or against. And. And you’re all very seasoned debaters, I think. Even. Even. Do you. Do you have academic debate experience or is it just something that you developed over time? Developing over time. But recognizing the need for having a dialogue that ends with people disagreeing and still being friends is very important. So to wrap up. I agree.

Well, we’re gonna have to talk about on a Tuesday night. Okay, so. So where can people go and listen to deliberating Dog Face Dudes? I’m assume you’ve got a backlog that if someone’s hearing about it for the first time right now, they can go and listen to like all the older episodes. I try to maintain all the relevant links@alanmarcus.com. i do the best I can to keep those up to date. If people need to find out where they are this Tuesday, that will be on the Benjamin Balder Channel. It goes other places. But we’d like to see you in the chat on a Tuesday night again.

Tuesday nights aren’t everyone’s cup of tea. They have other things going on. That’s fine. So tune into some of the classic episodes where we’ve discussed different issues and look forward to future debates on more metaphysical topics where we kind of push back against. You know, is Aleister Crowley the wickedest man on earth? I think that’s a great prompt to have. Is astrological, zodiacal horoscope things a net positive for society or just a sham show of snake oil? I think that’s going to need to be investigated on a Tuesday night. I think we might have one. I’ve got someone in mind for that one.

We’ve got been. We’ve been going at it a little bit behind the scenes. So I don’t know, maybe there’ll be like an astrology true or false debate. Where are you at? Do you have a bias going into that one? If. If the topic was astrology, real or fake, and you had to. To pick a debate side what would be the easier side to pick from? An. From. Not a. From an academic standpoint, from a debate standpoint. Which side would you think would be the easy side versus the hard side? The hardest side would be the person who would want to debunk it and say that it has less than no value.

In fact, the harm that has been caused by allowing people to entertain the idea of divination through horoscopes and sun science has been so delusional to civilization. I think that will be the harder side to define. Well, that. That’s definitely of overly biased take on it. What if it’s literally just you’re wasting your time versus you’re not wasting your time? I think its function is the quality of time, and that’s really what it’s discussing. Okay. You’re a hard one to pin down. Marcus Allen or Alan Marcus or whatever you’re. I can’t even pin down your name.

That’s. That’s how hard you make it for people. I try to make it easy so if people Google it, they’re not finding football players. Okay, it’s a fair point. It’s a fair point. So the branding of it is such that I try to make it simple and also easily pronounced. It’s not a difficult to pronounce name, I don’t think, unless the. The double Ls are like, alien. Like the alien language. Try to try to pronounce things. And there are certain words that I have received that I’m now just putting the pieces together, and it’s sort of like, does the definition come first and then the word or the word and the definition? I’ve had it happen both ways.

Received from where? Received like in. In your brain. Written on a piece of paper, through the email, just channeled, received, leaving it as a cliffhanger in intentionally received or unprompted, Unsolicited, Being open to the idea. And I received it. Okay. I mean, part three with Mark is Al Alan. Alanmarcus.com we’re gonna talk about the voices in his head. It sounds like, in a fun way, there’s a. A good use of this sort of inward imagination, like an act of imagination. And I’m very encouraging of that. I think that in, like, problem solving, you know, they say if you force yourself to sit down and just write down all the possible ways you could solve the problem, you’re generally gonna figure it out on your own instead of avoiding the problems and not thinking about them.

So to work through difficult things has sort of been my theme. And Modus operandi, sort of my whole reasoning and rationale for existing in media. And if people would criticize and say, well, he talks too much about himself. Well, I like to hear other people share their life stories and this democratization of, you know, podcasts and media and fan revisions, I think it’s great. I love the freedom of expression and in this way being able to have a conversation that people can overhear and now they’re getting references that they’re not familiar with, that leads them on sort of these scavenger hunts to do a little bit of work and discover that there’s some really interesting, interesting pieces of art and things.

And I want to thank you for your interview with Nina Paley, specifically. I think that was really, really interesting. And I went on to see what else she’s done and it’s like, that’s really great. Now other people are going to listen to Paranoid American and hear other guests that they’re going to prefer and they’re going to follow and have resonation with. But specifically Nina Paley. Wow, that was, that was an awesome interview. And the idea of like copyright in the mind, like, I recognize that the sovereignty of the mind thing was something that I recognized as being important before I had a framework or a language to describe, like, my mind is my own, my thoughts are my own, and I can do whatever I want in my head and that’s okay.

And not to be fearful and to explore darker things is to say that I’m not suppressing them. If we have a problem with a cultural shadow where there’s things we don’t want to talk about and then we try to suppress them, well, they sprout up in other ways that are maybe less predictable. The other we didn’t even when Nina Paley was on, my whole goal was to eventually get into AI too. Right. Because she’s an art, like, legitimately talented artist that’s been animated, dating and doing comics for like her entire life. But she also is pro AI, at least in terms of concept.

And I didn’t get to pull her more on that. But it’s just another interesting perspective that it’s very hard to find someone that has those kind of views and like the staunch anti copyright view and even that the idea that copyrights have been sold to us as empowerment, but really they’ve always been a tool of the publisher to justify why they should be able to get a copyright. And then it’s like, oh, but anyone can have one and see it’s empowering. Yeah, it, it Completely flips the entire concept because copyright is, you’re introduced to it in the American legal system is like, this is what makes our country great.

This is one of the great things that, you know, creates these rags to riches stories and pull yourself up by your bootstraps. And copyrights, it’s all sold as a big package, but it’s not American. It’s a European Euro trash authoritarianism that’s basically comes from the same era as like the black plague and the bubonic plague. Right. And that idea of like intellectual property is something that could be trademarked and registered and filed away somewhere. And I was having the idea of like this idea of like spiritual property that belongs to me. Like we all have our own spiritual property similar to intellectual property, where significant life events that have, you know, a spiritual, metaphysical, paranormal sort of expression in our lives that’s sort of like stamp, like, this is why we’re in a weird universe.

I think those are the experiences of that people have. So if we’re talking about like dosing a town with LSD for the greater good or for the control of it, have we had that conversation like, AI is desperate, that sort of thing? Yeah. So AI being the tool that we were approaching might seem to be the end of history in some way, but it seems to be the greater reflection of our own creative storytelling, mythopoetic sort of, you know, Carl Jung’s archetypal sort of thing where we’re now entering this age where imagine something, if you can have the words to type into a prompt, it can spit something out, which is a lot closer than you could do on your own struggling to get to a quick result.

So it’s not going to get you to where you want to be, like 100%. But it’s a tool in the journey that we can use creatively for the betterment of the people that we love and trust and want to be with. I think it scares people too, because. Because it’s one reason to not be stuck with the empty canvas syndrome or blank canvas syndrome, where you want to do something or create something or start a new project that you’re unfamiliar with. There’s always been this barrier of, well, I don’t have anyone I can ask or I don’t know how to do that thing and I don’t know where to start.

And AI, it does kind of be like, like you’re. You’re not allowed to say that anymore. Like now you can just go ask AI and at least get what the first steps to the thing are. If you couldn’t have already done that, like searching online. And there’s. There’s another really unique thing that we’re living through in a very egotistical, narcissistic way almost. But it’s kind of fun that we get to be the ones that live through this period in time that in the year 2000 or anytime prior than that, if you mentioned AI in your book, in your movie, in your music or anything thing you were writing sci fi, you were a nerd that you probably like Star wars and Star Trek and anything else.

But now movies that come out for the rest of our lives until we’re all dead or until the world ends, they can all contain AI and still be a sports jock movie and still be a, a non sci fi, non nerd movie. And that’s. It’s such a weird thing, right, that it used to be a hallmark of oh, I’m watching a sci fi movie because they just talked about AI. But now it’s a real thing that we’re all living with and it’s doing the things that used to be considered sci fi and now it’s commonplace or at least it’s become like over the next 10 years we’ll see people being born that were like, yeah, AI’s always been around.

Like what do you mean? It’s ubiquitous. We’re. We’re fish and water. It’s a demolition man we’re living in. It’s like the, the genre of burger punk where the McDonald’s corporation because President of the United States of America. I mean that was the, the story of demolition man where it’s like one fast food companies essentially won the fast food wars, becomes the president of the United States of America, essentially. Yeah. And I kind of think that’s where we’re already at. So science fiction of the past and now it’s like all the movies I watched as a youth that were in the future, I think all of them have like the Fortress movie, you know, Highlander guy goes into secure prison facility.

The future was 2017. Well that’s like the far past now. Like the TR. They were all very optimistic. Even the ones that were about the world ending. They still thought the world was going to end and we’d have cool technology like ubiquitous technology. It none of them seem to have gotten it right or the timelines are just so way off. This globalism experiment I think is, is kind of reached its climax in a way where returning to smaller local communities and tribes is sort of the natural reaction to that and coming to Terms with the fact that English as a language may have already peaked and the Chinese language might be where all the creativity and they may be making science fiction for their culture that we import.

So for such a time, you know, the 1980s and 90s, when a Disney corporation, America, that worldview was exported to all the other countries and they just had to put up with our entertainment for a while. The technology’s caught up where they can make their own stories. And now we’re watching them, their stories, their idea of what the future of Earth is going to look like outside of a Euro American centric sort of worldview. So I think that’s just coming to balance. This is a fun rabbit hole tangent to go down too, especially when you talk about, about the English language being surpassed by say like Chinese language or, or fill in the blank with whatever you want.

Because if you were to use technology as one of those metrics, it was until very, very recently, but pretty much all programming languages were predominantly in English. They like, even if you were a Chinese developer and any developer, you’re still writing the word if and the, and the word then, then and end and start and begin like it’s. It was all English. And then now with AI coming in, we’re starting to realize that even AI doesn’t necessarily care about the language that you, you can train the same or similar results from like image prompting or video prompting or any of these AI, you can train it to recognize English input and then here’s the thing we wanted or, or Chinese input and here’s the thing we wanted and they both kind of work in parody.

Although there might be an actual decimal point measurement somewhere where it’s like actually AI prefers Chinese. Actually AI is more specific and precise when you use English. We’re not there yet to know which language is better, but it does seem that AI could be a tool that tells us objectively what language language is better than other languages for different use cases. Like we might find out that when we’re talking about car safety, maybe Taiwanese is the best language to capture all of the different elements in car safety. If we’re talking about music, it’s probably not German, right? Like there’s certain languages that might cater more to certain different things.

And it’s like, okay, now if we’re going to talk about young, like now we actually have to talk in Germany. Having the understanding of psychology specific to like that Austria area, that sort of area I think they were just working with. You gotta have a hotel. Indeed, yeah. The symbolic representation of language and how the large language models interpret sentence structure is quite an interesting thing to do. If you’ve ever taken like an English translation and then saying LLM, translate this to Russian and take the Russian translated to Japanese and then go through five language hops and then return it to a literal English translation.

And do you get English? It seems that the AI systems are figuring that out and in this way are approaching this sort of one world unified language language. Even if I’m speaking English, you’re speaking Chinese, they’re still underlying it. One symbolic mathematical language. And in that sense, the world is running on that simulation layer. AI is basically making its version of Esperanto right now. The Dvorak keyboard arrangement. Yeah, well, let me, let me, let me cut this off because we’ve got a million different tangents we could go down. And we’ve already established part three is going to be about the messages that you’ve received.

So. And you know, we don’t want the paint to dry. This is like, like an oil painting. And, you know, next time we’re going to go back and smudge it up and, and alter it again. So this is like our little moving documents. Okay. I appreciate you letting me use this show as a vehicle to kind of document these, these different experiences you’ve had that I’m incredibly fascinated with, and I’m sure that you’ve been going over them in your mind. So we have like a record documentation of at least what you think of them at the time of us recording these.

So here, hopefully 100 years in the future, someone will be like, we figured out what that phenomena was. If only someone had about seven or eight hours of audio recording to explain different occurrences of this. We’ve got one of them, two of them, this one in part one. Well, and part three coming up. And the crowdsourcing of the comments. Please leave lots of comments and engage with this material. It’s an ongoing conversation recognizing that, that you and I have a microphone in a face and set up where we want to talk. There are also people that want to preserve their privacy but have brilliant ideas.

So we can find ways to receive messages from them as well. And it’s like I have an email on my website for those who feel compelled to respond to the words I’m saying. There is an email to reach me. I would appreciate that if people don’t want to leave public comments, private emails. I’m sure you get some interesting emails too, at some time. As soon as you send out a call to receive them, they flood in over time. And I appreciate every single one of them. And even if I don’t respond to all of them, I do appreciate it.

Leave the comment, hit the little thumbs up button. Feed the simulation so at least it knows to divert more energy to this side of the algorithm. So appreciate it. You, yeah, make that AI even more weird. Because the alternative to that is a cemented worldview where it is so rigid, there’s no flexibility and room for creative people to live. We’re living in a time where the fear of AI taking all of our jobs, that’s been a warning for a long time. Understanding what provides real world value to people. You know, food on the table, we know what those things are certainly like gardening and back to the land and all these types of things.

Not everyone wants to do that. So living in community is very, very important. Understanding online community is real and we meet each other. That’s a real thing. So meet. Meet people where they’re at and trust them when they say things. And when I say, email me, email me, I want to hear your stories. I’m sure there’s people that have been holding on to similar, you know, apples and oranges comparisons, but weird things that they’re like, I don’t know. And they’re like, you know, sometimes just sharing it with someone is enough just to let it out and then get on with it and the paint doesn’t have to dry.

These are some of my favorite stories are the ones with where people themselves, as they went through it, didn’t want to tell anyone about it because they didn’t want to rock the boat. They didn’t want to question their sanity or have everyone else question their sanity. And it’s more like, I’ll put that in a drawer and deal with it when I’ve got the bandwidth the exact way that you kind of described it. I’ve got many different friends that have got those kind of experiences with Bigfoot, with aliens, with whatever, just all sorts of spread the entire game gamut.

Yeah. And to me, maybe it’s just a low bar for myself, but when someone’s like, doesn’t want to talk about it and then like a decade later, they do want to talk about it. And there’s other people that are also like, yeah, man, same thing where I saw this thing and I’ve never been able to shake this idea and it’s all that I’ve been thinking about and now I’m ready to talk about it, I tend to give those ones more credit than someone’s like, I saw this yesterday and listen to what I said. Even, even if maybe that bias shouldn’t be there, it’s definitely there.

Are you talking about all the AI written posts on Reddit asking am I the asshole with a clearly manufactured story? For those upvotes, it’s like the social media verification of like, I just want to massage this story to move people. The conversation we’re having is not something between two artificial intelligence. To have a video call face expression, you know, the hesitation and the. All of that stuff cannot be mimicked. I mean it can be rehearsed by like Gemini, Google Gemini and like they’ll make a podcast for you. But the realness of these conversations is so important and to encourage people to video join an open panel.

It doesn’t have to be like deliberating dog face dudes, but on a Tuesday night it absolutely could be. Have to kind of call out people to say, you know, you’ve been thinking about it and you’re looking for the sign or the reason and the push the catalyst to exteriorize the things that you’ve been wanting to plan. This is it, this is your call. Pull the cosmic trigger and get weird things started. Out. All your favorite conspiracies all that more on a sticker sheets There are non American stickers. They’ll make you smile and snicker False threads and secret society.

All of these and more on our sticker sheets. Explore the unique with paranoid American sticker sheets. Unearth tales of cryptids, cults and mysteries through each sticker. These won’t won’t last long. Get yours now@paranoidamerican.com American stickers Cryptids, cults and killers killers we got all your favorite conspiracies All I’ve ever been worn on our sticky sheets. Paranormal American stickers make you smile and snicker Secret society all of these and more on our sticker sheets. What the heck are you waiting for? Discover the extraordinary with paranoid American sticker sheets. From cryptids in the night to cults out of sight each sticker is a unique find.

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