Politics of PSI (CIA Remote Viewing and Psychedelics) w/ Gabriel Kennedy aka Prop Anon

➡ The text discusses the importance of personal freedom and the ability to reach one’s full potential. It mentions various philosophies and thinkers, including Aleister Crowley and Robert Anton Wilson, who advocate for individual liberty and self-realization. The text also touches on the controversial use of psychedelics for self-discovery and their potential therapeutic benefits, as well as the historical control and suppression of such practices by governments and religious institutions.
➡ In the late 1950s, actor Cary Grant advocated for LSD therapy sessions, which were only accessible to the rich and famous. A decade later, Timothy Leary suggested that LSD should be available to everyone, not just the elite. The article also discusses theories about LSD’s negative effects, including its potential to distract from political activism. It ends by mentioning Gloria Steinem’s early career involvement with a CIA festival, highlighting the agency’s use of cultural influence during the Cold War.
➡ The text discusses the connections between Gloria Steinem, a prominent feminist, and the CIA, suggesting that her public image and narrative were carefully crafted and supported due to her alignment with certain government interests. It also contrasts her treatment with that of Timothy Leary, who was criticized and marginalized for his controversial views. The text further explores the idea that the CIA and other government agencies may strategically support individuals or movements that align with their goals, using them to subtly influence public opinion and societal trends. Lastly, it criticizes the military-industrial complex and its growing influence in areas like entertainment, suggesting that this is a form of manipulation that is often overlooked.
➡ The text discusses the intertwining of Hollywood, the CIA, and other intelligence agencies, highlighting how popular actors can be used to smuggle items due to their celebrity status. It also mentions Arne Milchan, a successful Hollywood producer who was allegedly a major weapons runner for Israel. The text further explores the history of Hollywood’s connection with the mob and military, and the potential misuse of funds within the military-industrial complex. Lastly, it touches on the involvement of high-ranking military personnel in occult activities.
➡ The text discusses various topics, including conspiracy theories, the role of coaches and mentors, and the complexity of human evolution. It emphasizes that no one fully understands the world, and anyone claiming to do so is likely misguided. The text also explores the idea that the world’s history is a series of secret societies’ battles, a concept that is both humorous and profound.
➡ The text discusses the idea of secret societies and their influence on the world, as portrayed in the Illuminatus Trilogy by Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson. It suggests that these societies are often involved in illegal activities, generating “hot money” that is laundered into the economy. The text also explores the concept of “indexing” from general semantics, which encourages people to stay present and not let preconceptions cloud their judgment. Finally, it discusses Wilson’s evolving views on the Illuminati and his exploration of thelemic magic.
➡ The text discusses the evolution of Robert Anton Wilson’s beliefs and writings, particularly his views on the Illuminati and altered states of consciousness. It also mentions his influence on readers and his impact on understanding oneself. The text further talks about Wilson’s life in Ireland, his interest in acting, and his views on misinformation spread by organizations like the CIA. Lastly, it mentions the author’s ongoing work on Wilson’s biography and an upcoming audiobook.
➡ Despite what others say, we continue to make impactful music. Many lack a record deal or appeal, but they still persist in creating music. You’re welcome.

You’re out here, you’re an individual, you have this. What I read from those articles is like, you have this ability to tap these higher potentials of yourself. If it’s psychic remote viewing, so be it. If it’s knowledge of epistemology and ontology and phenomenology, even better. You know what I mean? Like, but when you’re able to, you know, behave actively in your life, like, that’s. That’s the whole purpose and that there are, you know, groups, governments and other groups that are there that just want to keep you down. Right? And the whole goal is, how do you attain, like, personal, full, 100% liberty in your life while respecting the liberty of others? Because we don’t live in a world like that, right? There’s, you know, tons of jobs that focus around, like, the.

The person working, like, literally, like, you know, Lenny Bruce had the old sketch about it about the person that had to shovel the. You know, and their job was to just shovel the all day. Like, that’s not the best job in the world, you know, like. So Wilson wants for people in his writing, like, full abilities to, you know, enact your full potential living while you are alive and to free yourself, to pull the cord out of the matrix so you could behave on your own, your own knowledge, wisdom and understanding about the world and not get caught up in different types of propaganda and whatnot, you know? Well, he quotes, well, OTO at length.

I think it’s Crowley, but he quotes Oto at length in these series of articles about the whole, like, love is the law and do as thou wilt, as long as it doesn’t inflect on other people’s rights. And he makes a really good case here that that OTO is largely political. Like all of those. They’re talking about laws and they’re talking about rights and that it’s. It’s highly political and that essentially the Aleister Crowley’s thinking was political, but that it itself came from like a 10th century. You mentioned, like, the Sufi wisdom, and then even that guy’s dad was like a master Zoroastrian guru or something.

So that this is some ancient knowledge that was originally like a revolutionary political concept. Yeah. Wilson will take it, especially at that time, into this kind of libertarian area. Right. Where it is about, you know, Crowley had a. Like a kind of declaration which was basically that, like, you know, I forget the name of it exactly. But it’s like the right to live as free as you. That is your right in this earth to live as free as you possibly can. No one can judge you. Besides. Yeah, this is what Crowley’s saying. Right. Wilson is referencing the.

The Sufi poet and, you know, thinker Al Halaj, who is kind of known for that phrase yahak, which means I am the truth, which at the time, you know, meaning, like, I am God, I am the truth. You know, for you to say that, you know, just like in Christianity, you know, then was like blasphemy, you know, because God is supposedly outside of you. You cannot, you know, be God. Right? Another thing Alaj did was so he ended up being, like, killed, like burned at the stake or something, right? Like for. For. For. Some people said it was for that.

But another thing that he did was, you know, Muslims, you have to, you know, make hajj and you have to encircle the Kaaba, the. The big black cube that today is in Saudi Arabia. But I don’t think it was in earlier times. And what Al Halaj recommended to people was that if you don’t have the money, because it costs money to travel to pay hajj, like, you create a little thing in your house, make a little black cube, you know, do your prayers around that, then go outside and give charity, give money, give food to the people in your community who are in need, and that is your hajj.

Like, that sounds like a beautiful thing. It’s also a political thing. And he got put to death, and that could be one reason why he did that. But you see, there is this kind of antinomianism, right? Antinomianism, where it’s like this idea that, like, this is a much broader conversation now, like, where does God reside? Right. Can one be a representation of God? Can you be God? Right? You know. You know, we speak about the government wanting to control psychic powers. I mean, the original Control Corporation were these organized religions, you know, that were saying that people could believe this or believe that.

And he says in this article, Robert Anton Wilson says that the Holy Inquisition was the first Drug Enforcement Administration, or they were like the FBI of the establishment. Establishment magicians, which is such a great way of. Of thinking about it. Yeah. Like how basically they were the ones who were all up in everybody’s business and saying, like, you know, you’re not practicing Christianity properly, therefore we have to torture you and burn you at the stake and, you know, you know, pummel your head with bricks and rocks until you die because you’re not a good Christian. Like, this is what.

This is what a lot of Christianity was for, like, centuries. You know what I mean? And I Mean it actually that, that term the new inquisition. Wilson later his, his 1986 book, the New Inquisition, he makes that argument that people who were doing research in psychedelia ever since the government made it illegal, were like these underground scientists who were escaping and evading this new inquisition, you know, psychedelic and, and psychic research because it was taboo and not, you know, accepted and properly studied with psychedelics. It’s a different story today. It getting more properly studied in an academic, scientific framework.

You know, psychic stuff. I mean, there are people still doing these experiments and whatnot, reporting results. It’s, it’s a hot topic and conversation still to this day, whether people have these psychic abilities or not, you know. But what I want, the point I want to make about Robert Forte was that what he says is that Leary was. There’s the crew, like the original CIA guys that gets written about very well in that book called Acid Dreams. I recommend that book, It’s a very good book that’s about that first generation of these whacked out crazy dudes in suit and ties.

But they’re in their crazy maniacs dosing each other, giving each other CIA without telling each other just to see what happens. You know, one scientist that happened to him, he jumped out a window. His family later. Yeah, you know. Yeah, right. Jumped out a window. I mean, dude, if you’re really high on acid sometimes. Oh. Jumped out a double sealed, bulletproof window that didn’t have a way to open. That’s the full, that’s the full sequence of events there. What? It wasn’t like a window that you just walk out to and you lift it. It’s on the top freaking floor.

It was not a window that you could just casually open to get like some night air. Good point. Very good point. Yeah. So like the conclusion of that book, sort of like Acid Dreams, is that these first generation CIA psychedelic guys, they were. Their set and setting was already paranoid. They were trying to use this thing as a weapon and a weapon of war and a truth serum, you know. So they were already skewed, demented, broken people, you know. But then the revolution of the 60s of people discovering that acid can be used to open up these amazing, beautiful sides of oneself, that’s where Robert Forte speaks about, like, this was Timothy Leary’s crew, you know, and they were not accepted.

You know what I mean? Like, Leary was seen as a maniac. He still shitted on, you know, for the things that he spoke about. Yet in 1964, and this is ironic twist of history, Timothy Leary was sat in A Senate subcommittee hearing recommending to Ted Kennedy, RFK Jr’s uncle, that psychedelics should be used in a medicinal format and there should be therapists trained to give psychedelics to people to help them do LSD psychotherapy. Not that long ago, RFK Jr. Made the news because he was saying that psychedelics should be used in a medicinal format. So it took 71 years, but Leary’s message, or is it 61 years? Leary’s message finally got home to the Kennedys that although I think maybe, maybe this is biased speaking a little bit too, but I almost like Timothy Leary was whatever he said, he had a following.

So something he says is inevitably going to be repeated. It’s inevitably going to get reprinted in a book or a magazine article or something. So whether by design or wittingly or not, he kind of becomes a mouthpiece for. Here’s what the rest of the world is now allowed to know about lsd. For example, Cary Grant was one of the very earliest people that was talking about using LSD therapeutically. He had a doctor and the doctor had a direct connection to the military and he had a supply that he could get LSD. His name was Dr. Mortimer Hartman.

And he ended up charging Cary Grant $200 per LSD trip that he would come. And then Cary Grant starts spreading this around to all the other actors he knows. But this is in 1958 and Gary and Cary Grant starts becoming an advocate for LSD fueled therapy sessions. So this is sort of something that had been known, but only at these very elite. Like you had to be rich and you had to know Cary Grant or his inner circle to even get this reference. So by the time that Timothy Leary is suggesting this in public to the Kennedys, you know, like, like actually in a public court, it almost feels just like a decade later of okay, here’s the next wave of now it’s not just going to be these elite Hollywoods that have military connections.

Now it’s available for anyone that’s in college or anyone that’s within this certain sort of demographic. Yeah, I mean I know the work of Oscar. I never, I didn’t hear the person that you mentioned, but I know that Oscar. It’s hard to janiger this fella. He, he, he’s listed as introducing Cary Grant to LSD and I don’t know if he had military connections or whatever but, but it’s not inconceivable. I mean like you said, the military owned Eli. Well, Eli Lilly owned. Well they purchased the world supply from eli Lilly of LSD25 for like two years or so.

I mean that this is what’s reported in books like Acid Dreams and I think in Terrible Mistake, which is the one that’s a like 700 page biography on Frank Olsen, the guy that got pushed out of the window. But this is one of those things that if you, if you had access to LSD at all in the early 1950s, it was likely because you knew someone in the military and they had a connection to that original purchase. And they were, and they were just like, all right, we got the world supply, now what do we do with it? And like just anything, anything you can think of.

Like check out a little vial. I mean that obviously isn’t what happened, but that feels like that was the sort of vibe at that time. Yeah, I mean like so like theories that exist around the notion that LSD was bad or something. One supporting thing of that is it sort of dissolved the focused resistance from the left that was going on in the late 60s, early 70s to make some lasting changes in the country. You know, people, I’ve heard people give that description of the, of YLSD sucked. I mean, you know, I think what Leary would say too, what people would say was like, man, just do some acid and find out like is the CIA brainwashing you when you drop some acid? You know, like I’ve, you know, I’ve had some paranoid thoughts, but you know, I, I don’t think it’s, they’re doing it through acid, man.

Like, you know, there’s a lot of different areas of meetings. But again, this is, this is saying this with the historical context totally in mind, man. Like the, the, where I sort of landed, and I think I agree with Robert Forte here, is that there was this early group, right? And these guys were paranoid, wanting to use LSD for warlike purposes. So, you know, garbage in, garbage out, man. You know what I mean? Your set and setting is very important. Like the intention that you have before a heavy psychedelic dose. This is what John Lilly figured out is that, you know, you can self hypnotize yourself into different perspectives.

You, you could get so paranoid on acid. You know, you’ll think that your, your, your door is being kicked down right now, you know, by the secret military police, you know what I mean? Like, it’s very easy to get caught in a bad trip, right? So what you learn on acid is just how powerful your mind is, right? And when you’re not on acid, your mind is just as powerful, right? It’s just able to mic you Know, show a microscope about your level of where your perception forms. And it usually occurs at a level that’s just below our, the way we use words.

So it’s the automatic thoughts that come out, you know, the size of anger and desperation just with little things when you run out of milk, you know, all these little things. This is what Bob is trying to get through, you know, to people. It’s like we live, we’re living in a psychic battlefield. If you want to look at it that way. It’s just one metaphor, right? Like, but, you know, just be aware that there are all these little things that could kind of like cut you in small little ways, you know, so if you’re able to stay focused right on, you know, and aware of like, how you yourself form perceptions in, in every moment and if you’re aware of your preconceptions.

Because there’s a lot of people who are not even aware of, you know, their prejudices and preconceptions because the defense around that is like, man, I, everyone’s cool with me, you know, but like, oh, that those guys are. It’s like, well, that’s your, well, that’s your preconception. That’s your prejudice, you know, like. So I think that’s where Wilson’s trying to go with his method a lot is like, you know, study this, this area where we, where we form these thoughts, right? But don’t. I mean, I think you have to look at history with as cold an eye as possible.

I mean, these, these are great interrogations, but there are people who, who have done it, right? So again, Robert Forte, like, I mean, he’s someone who, who knew all these people. You know, he, he’s been immersed in that world for decades. And, and again, he says that, you know, he thought Leary was not kind of part of that shitty cabal of, you know, power hungry people. Was he a useful idiot? Was he used in this and that? I mean, maybe, maybe not, right? Like, I tried to put that ambiguity in my book, right? Like Chapel, Perilous Life and Thought Crimes.

Robert Anton Wilson. That, like that scene where Bob and Leary are in New York City in the early 90s and there’s people handing out. They’re, they’re speaking at a virtual reality event and there’s people outside handing out flyers that said Bob and Leary were in the CIA, you know, and Leary looks at the flyer and laughs. He’s like, if I was, they never paid me, right? And yeah, there could be, there could be groups of people who are never paid by the CIA and completely use and exploit. That’s just skeptical. Note to me, because it’s like, well, if the, if the metric is, did you get money? And if you didn’t get money, then you can be like, see, I was never a member.

I don’t know. It feels, it feels like. Well, wasn’t that the metric that you just put out there though? Right? Like getting funding through institutions. Like, so that’s one form of. Okay, yeah, funding. And I guess also being allowed to. To play in this space in exchange for maybe not money, but. And I guess in Leary’s case, this is the exception. Like, as long as you play by the rules, you don’t go to jail for. For this thing that we clearly have a monopoly over. So therefore, if you’re able to experiment in this, this area, you’re either doing it within the confines of these rules that we’ve set out, and if you ever venture outside of those confines, then you get into legal trouble.

Hence Timothy Leary running afoul of the law. And in so many different ways. Yeah, I mean, you know, this happens. I don’t. Well, let’s, let’s do another contrast here of another kind of celebrity from that time 60s into the 70s, who it is confirmed, worked with the CIA, yet she never has this. This never follows her much. It’s not the first thing that people say immediately after hearing her name, and it’s Gloria Steinem. Gloria Steinem is. Is probably remembered most or known most as a famed feminist. She started Ms. Magazine, which was a. I don’t know if it’s still around, but a very successful magazine.

Had a, you know, long high standing career as a journalist. Like, she got a lot of attention. The attention that she got was pretty much always favorable in news media, interviews and reports and whatnot. And she’s seen as like an icon for women. Early in her career, she helped with CIA festival, where this was part of the Cold War propaganda. Like, so the CIA would show that America is about liberty and free choice as opposed to the evil empire Russia, who. They don’t have cool music because they’re not. They don’t. And they don’t really have cool music.

Well, maybe more today now, like, but during that time, you know, there was no punk rock, I don’t think out there. Like, so America had better music. And the CIA was like, we want to get, you know, people in these other countries to, to like America and American culture. This was the soft quote, unquote power, the cultural cold war, you know, that was being played. Gloria Steinem Played a major part in one of these sort of festivals. She stayed connected to someone who was in the CIA who ends up. And you get this a lot too.

The Carl Bernstein who was, you know, one of the persons who broke Watergate, he wrote an article one time in the 70s or 80s about Operation Mockingbird, which was the CIA operation that placed all these agents and news agencies, you know, and how there was always someone. And let’s circle back to Anderson Cooper, you know what I mean? Like, and so not. I don’t know, but like, this is a tradition that’s been done. So Gloria Steinem ends up being, you know, good friend with this person. I don’t have his name off the top of my head.

Who is in the CIA and also high up in these news agencies, as was Cord Meyer. Cord Meyer was in the, you know, publications he owned. I don’t know, one of these things. But. And he. In other words. But Gloria Steinem, her career was like flower petals and like red. She was treated so nicely by the media. In other words, contrast that with Timothy Leary. You could see, it’s awesome. They’re on YouTube. Like all these different times. Few times that Leary’s being interviewed. Few times he wasn’t interviewed a lot on major network sort of things and was some late night.

There’s one example of a late night talk show. Talk show host interviewing Leary. And he basically does the same thing. He bad jackets him. He blames him for LSD happening in the first place. He gets treated like, you know, does that happen with a useful idiot who’s no longer useful? I mean, he really pissed Richard Nixon off enough. He pissed off enough people in the higher echelons of the government, you know, I guess he pissed a lot of people off, man. Like, well, you’re. You’re in the right spot to talk about Gloria Steinem and the CIA connection.

That’s something that I, I haven’t done a full episode on it yet, but it’s probably worth it. But it’s like she had an acceptable narrative that was being well crafted. For example, you’re like, hey, look at how free we are. We’re so free in the States, more free than you are, that, look, we’ll just destroy the nuclear family. Watch here, here. This is how free we are. And that was sort of. That’s the, the tinfoil hat CIA angle of why was Gloria Steinem allowed to be so public and not get bad jacketed the same way as others? Because she continued to toe the line indefinitely.

And that particular line was this disintegration of the family unit and more towards statism. Like, don’t trust your mom and dad. Trust the state. And here’s Gloria Steinem with more. Right on. Yeah, well, I mean, I’ll follow you up until that part. I’ve never thought of that. I don’t consider that part of it, that she was an agent to destroy the nuclear family. But I view it as a cultural thing that kind of is just happening, man. Like Arthur Miller, the playwright, once wrote, america destroys families, you know, so. Well, I think it might be more of like this.

This person is in the race, and they’re doing really well in the race. Let’s back that person. It would be the same F1 racers or NASCAR racers. You’re like, hey, that car is consistently in the top 10. Let’s go ahead and just sponsor that car. So when they get somewhere, people see our branding or we have some sort of influence, so it might not. I don’t really think in black and white terms where someone sat down, they’re like, all right, we need to spread feminism. We need to break up the family union. Let’s. That lady seems good.

Let’s get her to do it. It’s more like, let’s see who’s already doing really well. The same way that I think MK Ultra worked. It’s not like CIA agents went into a university and they’re like, all right, we want you to record a phrase on a tape and play it for people. And here’s this research we’ve got. It was just like, hey, that guy over there is doing something kind of cool. Let’s just throw a little bit of extra funding his way. Let’s make sure that doors open for this guy so that his research is unimpeded.

Because what he’s trying to do could be, you know, sort of, like, synergistic with what we’re trying to do. And I think maybe that same thing happens to, say, Gloria Steinem. Maybe it happens to someone like Timothy Leary, maybe not him himself, but like, that, where it’s like, hey, this guy is doing things that we’re interested in. Let’s just, like, let him take this down a little bit farther than he could by himself. And then in Timothy Leary’s case, it’s like, whoa, not like that. Okay, let’s go ahead and put some boundaries around this guy. Right? Yeah, yeah.

And, like, you know, how much funding exists, how many departments exist in that organization to dedicate, you know, these efforts to different people and whatnot? That’s a thought. I Have. And yeah, I like what you’re saying though. I, I agree. I, I think that there’s definitely, you know, as intelligence agents that that’s what they do, they surveil. So I mean the CIA surveilled more than Tim Leary. You know, Seymour Hirsch was, he broke the story as well. That was called Operation Chaos. I write about it in my book where the CIA was surveilling, keeping tabs on American citizens during the night.

Right. This was their, the CIA’s version of COINTELPRO. Essentially it was the infiltrate extremist groups in their eyes that were building influence just to have an inside man to let you know where everything was all the time. And the reason that that one was apparently salacious wasn’t because the CIA was infiltrating. It’s because the CIA was, is not supposed to act domestically but they were able to tie it into like, well, they’ve got connections to foreign agents, therefore this is now within CIA jurisdiction. Yeah. You know, and you see how easy it is to go there for you know, like, and again like, I think this is one of the values of Bob’s book, Bob’s work, excuse me, Robert Anton Wilson’s work is.

And my book is, you know, forwarding the notion of sharpen your critical thinking skills, you know, because how did MK Ultra start Allen Dulles in 1953? 4-10-1953 gave a speech to various governmental, whoever the fucks call brain warfare. And he spoke about the brainwashing of American POWs at the hands of the Koreans in the Korean War. The. It wasn’t conclusive that these men were really brainwashed. Right. The evidence not very clear. Many say it was extremely shaky grounds that the Koreans were really brainwashing these men. But for Allen Dulles it didn’t matter. And he said that America needed to get even better at brainwashing than the Koreans or the Soviets or whoever.

So if there was even a chance that they were doing it successfully, then that means that we were behind already. Like we had to make up for whatever we’ve been sleeping on. This. This is also one of the same explanation. I quasi official explanation of the origin. The original steps in MK Ultra to test psychedelics was that they went into to Dachau concentration camp and they found reports that they were using mescaline in order to interrogate some of the the prisoners of war there. And that’s a on paper supposed to be the first time that the CIA or the OSS was like they’re doing what now? We need to do that we need to go and find maps.

Hell, we’ve got mescaline. We’ve had it since the 1880s, at least. Yeah, yeah, man. When you look at. Now, these are two things where, you know, US Military, CIA, governmental institutions have fomo, major fomo. And you’re never supposed to make moves off of fomo. You know, that fear of missing out. They had a fear of missing out on all the psychic research that. Did they do conclusive due diligence to really make sure. Did they do a preliminary intelligence test, you know, study of these supposed results that these Soviet psychics had? They did not. They went right to it.

They’re like, we need funding. And that’s a whole other thing, too. Now, if we’re talking all this stuff, here’s a conspiracy right in front of our faces that it’s not even called a conspiracy. And it’s the military industrial complex. This behemoth has grown to gargantuan proportions even more now in the last few years. That’s the conspiracy. Do you know what I’m saying? I would argue now it’s the military industrial entertainment complex. It’s like, now that you’ve got hot. Because for a while, the CIA working with Hollywood was like, hush, hush. You weren’t supposed to know about that.

But now it’s advertised. Now a movie will come out, and it’s like we had CIA give us notes on this movie, and people are like, oh, my God, it’s going to be so realistic. I need to see that. So now there’s like a. A convergence where having CIA funding gives you more credibility to the rest of the audience. Right? They’re like, oh, man. Well, if the CIA is funding this thing, it’s got to be good, right? Hollywood, CIA, Fargo. And then let’s. Let’s bring up another Matt Damon. Argo. Yeah. Oh, Argo, right. I called it Fargo.

My bad. Yeah. Well, then. Although I would. You could argue Fargo maybe too. Well, isn’t it? Well, this is the stuff that’s really coming out now, I think, is it’s not just Hollywood, CIA, but like Mossad. Hollywood, Hollywood, Mossad. You know, let’s look at this. The. One of the most successful executive producers of the 1990s to the early 2000s. He. He started Regency Films, which put out Fight Club, which was a very kind of countercultural sort of movie really, you know, got me going when I first watched it. Man named Arne Milchan. Arne Milchan was. He’s a billionaire living in Israel.

He made his money in Hollywood, went Back to Israel. He’s Israeli, he came to Hollywood, his whole cover, the whole time. Now let’s think of Uri Geller again. His cover was as, is as a, as a Hollywood producer. But what he was really doing, he was a major weapons runner for Israel. And it’s alleged, I don’t know if it’s been proven, but maybe that he played a major part in the Israeli espionage of stealing the nuclear plans from America and, and, and getting it going in Israel. So Arne Milchen, he, you know, talk about open secrets.

You know, people knew probably that he was definitely, people knew that he was running guns, if you will. So compare him to you know, say IRA gun runners that, you know, in America they’re getting sent to jail, they’re getting seven years in prison when they were caught, you know, because I don’t know if you’re familiar with government, you know. Are you familiar with Tracy Twyman’s work at all? No. So, so Tracy Twyman writes on a bunch of stuff. She gets really big into the intersection of military occult and sort of psychedelics in Hollywood, like this whole little blend.

And she actually had this really good point. I can’t remember what. I think the article was the Story of Minnie Moose and she’s talking about how the intelligence agencies realized pretty quickly and, and mafia. They realize that Hollywood actors, especially ones that were popular, they actually could give this star struck feeling to people that were checking you going on and off your airplanes that if they were there to like make sure you weren’t running guns and drugs, if all of a sudden Marilyn Monroe is the person that you’re checking or it’s, it’s, you know, Frank Sinatra, fill in the blank that maybe they don’t, they don’t want to impose so they might not pat you down as much.

They might not insist unchecking all your stuff because oh my God, my wife’s a huge fan when you sign this and that at some point in this convergence of Hollywood and military ops, they, someone put that together, they’re like, oh my God, we can put drugs and guns and people in these limos, on these private jets of, of these Hollywood people and they elicit this sort of compliance. They have a built in rapport that you don’t have to build up that doesn’t necessarily come with a doctor or a politician or just some rich guy, but that this almost made them the perfect mules to, to send things internationally.

Yeah, I mean, you know, everything sounds, everything’s. I, I’m sure she spent some Time, like, investigating all this, you know, I, you know, my mind thinks of different things, like, but I hear, yeah, yeah, Hollywood, CIA, which Argo was a example of the normalization of, you know, kind of military mindset. You know, these, these set consultants on whatever shows. I mean, to begin with, you know, Hollywood seemed kind of started the 30s and 40s. You know, I saw re watch this movie I haven’t seen in years, but this Warren Beatty movie who. I think he’s. I like Warren Beatty, like this movie called Bugsy, which was about Bugsy Siegel, right, The Jewish American gangster, you know, who also gave money to the Irgun, you know, the, the Israeli terrorist groups, you know, uh, the 50s and whatnot, you know, when they’re fighting out there.

But, you know, Bugsy Siegel is sort of this kind of epitome of like this, you know, Hollywood flash of this convergence of like, you know, mob money, underworld money that needs to be washed through various productions, you know, and so the mobsters, this isn’t what the movie was about, but this is like the setup. Mobster’s girlfriend, he hits up the director and says, get my girlfriend in. You know, and then this is a great example too, of like the fungible versus non fungible thing, right? Because people say more and more it’s become a thing. I don’t know, over the last 10 years, less like, sure, people in Hollywood have done some shitty things.

Harvey Weinstein is a disgusting, gross, ogre rapist who also utilized ex Mossad agents in the form of Black Cube to spy surveil and harassment women that he raped. Rose McGowan was an example of this organization being used on. On her. And Black Cube was a private military intelligence organization. So, yeah, pretty, pretty, pretty prickly stuff in, in. In the Hollywood world. But, you know, it starts out Hollywood itself, right, as like this kind of this glamorization of like these 1930s gangsters, you know, these, these. These movie stars are hanging out with mobsters and kind of portraying them like the original Scarface movie, you know, like goes down the line, right? Like so many great movies from the 30s into the 40s.

And that strange sort of like, marriage, if you will, of like a contentious place. Hollywood, excuse me, Los. Las Vegas. You know, Bugsy Siegel plays a major part in that. The birth of Las Vegas. This kind of, you know, America sort of, you know, lives for decades with this, this underworld that exists. You know, the Mafia, that they’re shadowy figures, conspiratorial figures. Are they doing this? Are they doing that? It wasn’t even There wasn’t even the name for it wasn’t even spoken until like the 60s when RFK Jr’s dad, RFK, the original, the better RFK, you know, grilled at the like McLuhan subcommittee hearings, like, know, grilled these different, you know, you know, Valachi, these different mobsters.

And what is the mob? Right? And so, yeah, we’re speaking now, we’re getting to a deeper level. Wilson writes about this a little bit in his writing about the propaganda due scandal of the 1980s, which was this convergence of mobsters both in Italy and in America. CIA agents and other agents, Mossad and British and whoever, you know, and high level financial crimes and the Vatican. And that was going on God’s Banker. That was, it was about the guy that they called God’s Banker. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rob Roberto Calvi, you know, known as God’s Banker, was, was found dead hanging under Blackfriars Bridge.

And you know, 1982, June 1982, they made it seem like he, he was killed by Freemasons because he was hanging like from one leg when his. And his. Or no, he was hanging, you know, from his throat. But he had his pockets filled with bricks, which was some Masonic thing if you give up the secrets of the Masons. But it turns out he was really just killed by the mob. Right. And so now this is, we’re focusing in on this part now, like when we’re analyzing these worlds, right? Like, you know, like you said earlier, the CIA or the US Military, they heard rumor that the Soviets were building up this and building up that.

So then they went and they did physical, you know what I mean? They were thrown off their square, really. You know, they were pump faked. You know, so when all this money and all this funding got dumped into all this stuff. Yeah, but who’s making money off that to begin with? All these little monies that go missing that go into the pockets of people involved in the military industrial complex, weapons manufacturers, this and that before 911 happened, what was it? There was trillions of dollars missing. No one knew. Cynthia McKinney, the, the congresswoman at that, at that time in 2000 and 2001, she was grilling Donald Rumsfeld before 911 happened.

Where are these trillions of dollars that we just audited? The Pentagon. Where did this money go? Right, like this isn’t new to Tamaga, trying to figure out and cleanse the swamp. You know, Cynthia McKinney was trying to do that in 2000. You know, activists on the left have been trying to do that since the 60s, do you know what I’m saying? Like, but the, what constantly seems to happen, you know, and, and, and bringing it back to the politics aside articles is, it is weird. It is weird how there are people like, like you know, who are highly involved in cult stuff, also highly involved in military, you know, like high ranking military this and that and they’re like the temple of Set.

They, you know, Michael Aquino, he’s some military guy and he’s in the temple of Set. But I don’t wanna, I don’t wanna, I don’t want to mention real names because I know there’s a lot of conspiracy theories about Michael Aquino and stuff. Like I don’t, I, I don’t want to get into that because I don’t know much about that stuff. You know what I mean? Like, but that’s my point though, you know, like, well, that’s a good example because that one, that one gets conflated as if Michael Aquino is a military officer. True. Michael Aquino funds founds the temple of Set, which is a break off of the Church of Satan with Anton lavey.

That’s true. But then there’s this, this connection that doesn’t necessarily exist de facto where it’s like, well, that’s proof that the military was funding black magic. It’s like because the military gave him a paycheck and then he took his paycheck and he’s like, I’m going to spend this on, you know, on hookers and black magic. It doesn’t necessarily mean the military was spending their money on hookers and black magic. It was going through Michael Aquino as like a conduit. But that, that it wasn’t a direct fund. But I mean that’s where it gets dicey across the board.

Even when we go back to like, okay, let’s replace black magic with psychedelics. It’s sort of the same story over and over again. Yeah. And like, you know, I just want to stay on Robert Anton Wilson, like bring it back to him. Like, yeah, like this notion of doors opening for you. Right. So if you’re, you know, other, other writers have talked about this, like you know, Eric Davis, the, the writer has, I saw him mention something like this was what you were saying earlier that if you see some of these writers or journalists or academics and these, all these doors are opening.

Right. You could get conspiratorial. Think conspiratorially. There’s plenty of evidence to back up stuff. Let’s just say Hollywood casting couch notions like to mix a metaphor if you will. Like, um, you know, the, the way to get cast in a movie, if you’re an actor and you’re you, you can’t depend on nepotism. You have to train, get your acting skills up. Because I always find entertainment people talk shit about Hollywood and actors and this and that. Like, you try it, man. Someone stick a camera in your face. Action. Say the lines as this different person, you know what I mean? It’s like I remember going to baseball games as a kid and I would talk shit, right? Like.

But some people really love just talking about baseball. How much they suck. This guy sucks. It’s like you can’t even swing a bat, bro. You know what I mean? Like, slow your roll. Coaches out there. Yeah, yeah. You know, and, and so, so this is the line that we have to walk because this interesting capacity that the human mind has. Right when we’re watching anything on, online, on, on this, it’s so easy to talk. But I, I think I have a good sort of reputation to at least. And I’m not saying this isn’t like an argument, but it’s, it’s also implying.

Well then does that mean that my boxing coach needs to be able to beat me up at boxing in order to give me valid advice on how to be a better boxer? No. Right. Because like, was Mike. Every single coach Mike Tyson ever had, could they beat him up? Probably not, but they could tell him like, hey, I recognize this ability. That’s, that I can help you harness because I know how this is supposed to work, even if I can’t do it myself. I can help you do it the same way with like an orchestra conductor.

It almost be like you sit down and play the violin and the tube on the piano all at the same time. Because that’s what you’re telling us to do. It’s like sometimes you do have that elitist sort of level of knowledge where you can delegate a very complex set of events to a whole bunch of different players, even though you yourself are not capable of doing any of those individual roles. Oh yeah. For real delegators. Idea. Idea men. You know, different types of intelligences that people have. Yeah. More analytical versus more hands on and stuff like that.

Yeah, I mean, I mean, but my point is this, this, this habit at times to hate, to just hate on just because they’re, they’re there right now. And Tim Leary got a lot of hate, you know, and Robert Anton Wilson, he wasn’t as well known, but in terms of his, you know, where, where he was with all this stuff and, and what he was ultimately or whatever. Like, like it’s, he even talks about it like, you know, there are things that are indeterminate and you’re always bringing in new information. I will probably for the rest of my life still be investigating the life of Robert Anton Wilson, seeing if I could find things that might contradict what I thought, you know.

Well, let me, let me ask you this and I’ll use this to kind of bring us home. And this is directly from the Politics of Psychology series of articles. And Robert Anton Wilson mentions in here, and this is somewhat verbatim, and he mentions Ishmael Reed and he references this book that he wrote called Mumbo Jumbo and he. And, and what? The way that Robert Anton Wilson describes this quote he says in his hilarious and profound novel. So the hilarious part is doing a lot of work there. And I want to ask your opinion. The quote from Mumbo Jumbo by Ishmael Reed is the history of the world is the history of the warfare of secret societies.

And when Robert Anton Wilson mentions this is from a hilarious profound novel, it’s hard for me to get a read on it. Does Robert Anton Wilson agree that the history of the world is the history of warfare of secret societies? Or is it funny because that’s like an over simplistic way of looking at things? Or is it funny because of how spot on it is yet how controversial it might be? Yeah, I mean I think it’s a good. Looking at that statement is a good example of what Wilson liked and tried to practice. This thing that he got from general semantics called indexing.

Right. In order to general semantics. General semantics was a, a field of study that Wilson got really into after reading this book by Alfred Kipki called Science Insanity. Wilson read it in 1948 at the age of 16 and it kind of became like his philosophical underpinning, his critical thinking underpinning for, for the rest of his life pretty much. He like read it like once a year. Giant book, huge book. This is the, this is the book. He said he read this at 16 in a weekend. I’ll have chat gbd summarize it for me later. Yeah, well, you know, in many ways it’s been already.

The main point in some ways of that big giant book is you know, for the most part saying that there’s, there’s nothing absolute in and of itself. We live in sort of like a flux process like reality. However, the words we use to describe reality constantly misalign with how things, you know, flow. If you will. The example is that how we’re. We still utilize this notion of either or what, What Aristotle called the excluded middle, right? There’s no room. So someone is either this or that. There’s no gray area, right? Events are either this or that.

There’s no gray area. This is a very simple explanation. However, you know, especially 19th and 20th century science has constantly proven otherwise. You know, the. The fields of operationalism where, you know, they find that scientific experiments are not always the result, are not always the same when done at different points of the day. So operationalism is you have to describe your experiment and contextualize it in the present moment as much as possible. And science is pointing in this direction more and more. So general semantics, in other words, like offers all these different ways to, like, constantly contextualize, like, the moment, because every moment is unique and different from the moment before every individual.

You know, everyone has a different thumb. Fucking thumbprint, right? Everyone has a different brain. However, this is. And this is Bob. One of Bob’s biggest philosophical points is that we live in this point of human evolution, Homo sapiens sapiens, this being that has been around for, I don’t know, 40,000 years, maybe more, right? But our whole frame, like, if we take Darwin’s evolution, right, we evolved from bipeds, we evolved from. From monkeys, you know what I mean? Like, and parts of our brain have been in this form before. Homo sapiens sapiens have been around. So our forebrains, like the bipeds before us, had the same brain.

We’re still evolving, yet the past is still a mystery. We’re constantly exploring what the hell is going on. Every single one of us on, on this planet, no one knows 100% what the is going on. And as Wilson said, if anyone tries to explain to you that they know exactly what is going on, they’re probably an asshole, right? And so when it comes to that notion of Israel Reid’s quote, the history of the world is the history of warfare between secret societies. Yeah, Bob, Bob really liked that quote at the time. He actually used that quote as the opening quote for Illuminatus Trilogy.

That’s sort of like his book with Robert Shea that was published in 1975. The history of the world is a history of warfare between secret societies. So that immediately complicates the situation, right? Because Illuminatus trilogy was in one sense parodying this viewpoint of the Illuminati that groups like the John Birch Society held, right, Which Wilson thought were reactionary, you know, kooky, far out ways of, you know, thinking about things. They also parodied Nesta Webster, which he thought was a racist, you know, and they, they were parroting this notion of one solid continuous group that has existed for hundreds of years and has never been totally exposed or discovered.

Wilson was parodying that in Illuminatus trilogy. So what he was saying was there are multiple groups behind the scenes vying and fighting with each other. And we only see a part of that on the outside world. I think that coincides with what these investigative journalists constantly uncover. And that’s the realm you have the underworld realm where underworld activity produces hot money. You know, you’re a pimp making money, prostitution, well, whatever. You’re drug running, you’re gun running. You’re getting money that you’re not supposed to get. You have to launder that money. That’s hot money. You know, these, these big time criminals, drug dealers laundered into real estate, you know what I mean? And that hot money turns into stable economy.

But we’ve reached this point in the world where more hot money exists than money in the civil society. This is a problem, this is a major issue that, that we, we all face. Right, but what, what that is, what that shows though is you have all these different groups, organizations, they’re not just governments, they’re groups of people, special interest groups. They, they keep their money in offshore accounts, you know, so that is never touched. They try to keep as many things, you know, hoarding as many signals as possible and giving out as little as possible, you know, and all of this creates this world of false scarcity, conspiracy theory, conspiracy and corruption, and inside of occasion and basically where the world is today in a lot of ways.

You know, the reference to Nessa Webster is actually a really interesting one because that, because Nessa Webster was one of the first people in the 20th century, just because of when she was alive that was really harping on the Bavarian Illuminati. She was keeping that name alive for quite a while. So when you’re talking about him referencing the John Birch Society and Nessa Webster and that it was almost a parody at some levels of invoking the name Illuminati because it was like, how silly is it that this one group or this one movement can be intact over centuries and keep this thing going yet.

And maybe I’m, I’m not reading through like the, the, the, the levity of how he’s writing in this, but in the politics of psy, he also sort of implies about how the, the OTO was in turn inspired by the Sufism and that the Knights Templar brought Sufi magic into Europe and that this continuation essentially gives us the oto. So on one hand, it’s like, how silly is it that we think organization from the 18th century still has some sort of say, or put this ball in motion that we’re still seeing in the 21st century? But then on the other hand, in the same article, like, oh, yeah, Knights Templar, you know, brought Sufism in the 10th century, and then that turns into European occultism and that turns into Oto.

So on one hand, it’s like to stitch together 10 centuries is silly on one hand, but then, like, somewhat understandable on another. Or was there parody on both sides of that, do you think? No, I mean, well, what happened was that. And this is why I bring up indexing. So indexing is the. One of the techniques from general semantics to kind of help you stay in the moment with things and not let your preconceptions get ahead of you. And so what that means is you have to take everything at a. At its face value in every moment.

So the Thomas of today, like, if you’re indexing every day, you put, you know, Thomas of August 18, 2025, and this Thomas, it’s scientifically proven you are a different person than who you were 12 years ago, 20 years ago, and you will be a different person in 10, 20 years time. Like, we live in this, like, spectrum of flux. Like, just physically we are going to change. Like, if I’m not confined to the linear progression of time. But I understand what you’re saying. Yeah, I mean, well, what. What I’m saying is, is that the argument is this sort of process philosophy, this flux, this.

This view of flux, that there’s. There’s nothing absolute. To a degree, we are essential. You know, you. You are. You reflect who you hang out with. You know, the people that you hang out with reflect who you are as well. Do you know what I’m saying? Like the. The people that you choose to hang out with, let’s say, you know, like, yeah, you know, but. But bringing it. This is one of the arguments of Korzebski, general semantics. Tim Leary also came upon this as well with his work with group therapy. Right. As you were saying that, I was like, and if I’m Tim.

Tim Leary and I’m doing acid with the CIA guy’s wife, that’s the company that I keep. Yeah, well, I mean, the CIA guy’s wife was trying to. Do you think she was telling Cord Meyer that she was jfk? I mean, because she was. She was. It’s more scandalous, I think he might have been telling her to do it. Cord Meyer, he might have been telling her to do it. Yeah, maybe. I mean, get me a nice promotion if you can. If you can get in there. But what happened to her? She. She was mysteriously killed. She was, like, thrown down the flight of stairs in Georgetown, and James Jesus Angleton, like, went to her house and took her private diary and like that.

And he’s the main maniac within the CIA at that time. Right? Like so, yeah, she’s very tied in. But, you know, to say that Cord Meyer was telling her what to do, there’s no evidence for that. No, of course, yeah. You know, like so, yeah. But. But this notion of indexing, right, so Wilson in Illuminatis Trilogy, he wrote that book in 1969-1971. Right. He mentions this a lot in his writing, especially Cosmic Trigger, Volume 1, which comes out in 1977. He had to wait, like, five years for the book to finally get published. Right. In that course of the five years, his viewpoint of the Illuminati shifts.

Right. When he’s writing Illuminatis Trilogy. This is all a gag, man. It’s part of, you know, discordianism. Let’s have some fun. Let’s, let’s. Let’s make the paranoids more paranoid. Like, let’s, you know, entertain ourselves. But he also used him and Shea used political paranoia and paranoia in a very good way. Used it very well, otherwise the book would not be still spoken about in such an underground phenomenon as Illuminatus Trilogy is. He used the paranoia trope in the same way that Philip K. Dick uses the trope of alien invasion. The whole point is to elicit a sense of uncertainty and unease in the.

In the reader. You know, we. We’ve evolved too, like, through the use of our communication mediums. So people get more bored than. Than ever reading a book. Jesus Christ. So, but like, if you read Illuminatus Trilogy, it’s an experimental text. It’s. It cuts off mid sentence and goes from one scene to another. It’s an interesting read. But again, Wilson’s viewpoint of the Illuminati at that time of writing that book was, let’s just, you know, I don’t really believe it. It’s a trope. It’s a literary trope. The Illuminati, According to Wilson, then the Illuminati came and went, 1776-1783.

But Wilson was constantly turning ideas over and going back Again and being like, well, maybe the Illuminati was something else. So he started doing that when he began his crawling curriculum, when he started walking the thelemic path, if you will, he started practicing thelemic magic, all with the intention to have this experience, perhaps to have this knowledge and conversation with this holy guardian angel, which, as I said earlier, he had in July 22nd or 23rd, 1973, just weeks after having this, you know, spontaneous remote viewing experience that synchronistically, you know, CIA spooks were also doing remote viewing experiments up the road, well, miles away, you know, how many people were shooting around in the astral plane.

But by the time Wilson publishes cosmic trigger, volume one in 1977, this is his chronicle. This is his new journalism. Cosmic Trigger, Volume one is a classic. I think it should be stamped with the classic label, like Penguin classic, because it’s not what he’s saying. Like, as it stands to today, there’s a lot of things that Wilson wrote, even in the New Inquisition, that doesn’t stand the test of time today. Right. He even says that in interviews in the late 90s. He’s like, cosmic trigger. I don’t even believe that stuff anymore. But I’m not going to tell my readers that because I want them to go along the journey and make, you know, read the book and, like, go down this path of exploration.

Right. What was the Illuminati? And so Wilson really started questioning, you know, the origins and the organizations of this shadowy organization called the Illuminati. And the result is seen in Cosmic Trigger Volume one. That’s a different Wilson. This is where indexing comes in. The Wilson of who wrote Illuminatus trilogy. His mind is. Has a different conclusion on who or what the Illuminati were than in 1977 when he published his Cosmic Trigger, Volume 1. And so he, of course, published the Politics of Psy in the fall of 1975. So he was in it. He was in his sort of chapel perilous years.

Specifically, he emerges in the late 70s. And by the time he moves to Ireland in 1982, you know, he still has an interest in these things. He’s not practicing crawling in magic, per se. He’s writing amazing literature and soaking up, you know, Irish literary culture. He’s. He’s practicing the magic of Guinness and Jameson, you know, but, you know, these things are important to look at when looking at someone’s life because people change, you know, back on the acting aspect, you know, the great acting teacher Stanislavski, you know, the first Amazing acting teacher who taught the method or whatever, right.

In modern era, he had three different stages of his. Of his view of acting, right? And it’s much like these religious schools, right? People take the tradition given at one period of time from Stanislavski, and that was Lee Strasberg who did the Strasberg Institute. And part of that was him, like, abusing the shit out of, like, students or something, like yelling at him or whatever. But along comes Stella Adler, who is another amazing actress who. She hung out with Stanislavski in the last years of his life, and she came back to America and she was like, I have the real method.

Strasberg is teaching the old shit, right? And so Stanislavski is. Is revealing truths at different stages of his life. Do they contradict each other at times? Yeah, like. And does. Does what. Is what Bob is writing in. In 75 in those articles contradict where Wilson was at in 2005 with. With, like, maybe some of his views towards those things? Yeah, maybe. You know what I mean? But, yeah, I mean, that’s. He’s a human being. He’s not. You know what I mean? He’s like. I’m trying to. To thankfully just give the biography, you know, I’m not trying to defend many of his ideas.

I want to explore his ideas and see what truth resides in them. And. And. And, you know, I know that reading his work inspired me to go out and. And discover more about life and kind of duck the people who I thought were spooky, you know, because you. You go out in this life, they’re. They’re. They’re all about man. People are all around, you know, and. But that’s from the knowledge maybe perhaps gained from. From reading Wilson, because one of the great things that he puts out there is like, altered states of consciousness, right? Knowing yourself in different states of consciousness, that you.

You literally are like a different person when you have different hormones and. And your secretions happening in your brain and body. Right? So for me, and I think a number of readers, one of Wilson’s main lessons is, you know, true knowledge of self, which was the goal of. Of, you know, since. Since ancient Greece. Like, learn yourself. Learn what it’s like. Was Robert anton Wilson a 5 percenter? No, no. I knew 5 percenters, though. And I think that’s maybe where some of the metaphors come in. But knowledge itself. I mean, knowledge itself. The five percenters, you know, that goes back to the play.

D’oh. Like, know thyself, right? Yeah, five percentage. But yeah. So, I mean, I think you know, I mean again, I, Wilson and the CIA and all these, these kooky places, I mean it’s interesting to really see like cultural fabrics that have been created. But here’s another thing too. Just as the US military and the CIA, they, you know, Alan Dulles created MK Ultra with Sidney Gottlieb because of supposed rumors or you know, shaky grounds. Right. For brainwashing. Well, maybe because they just wanted to wash some brains themselves, you know, like. But how much has have these organizations like the CIA also over bluffed themselves to the general public to make it seem like they have even more behind the scenes knowledge? Oh yeah.

I mean to horribly paraphrase, I think it was a William Colby quote. It was like, well, no, when the CIA has done its job, when everything that the American people knows is a lie or something like this, like that was the ultimate goal of absolute domination. Yeah, yeah, it’s, it’s Since World War II there have been so many propaganda campaigns aimed at other people and the American citizenry. This is another point that Wilson makes in his book, his second to last book, sog. The thing that ate the Constitution is that Americans have been getting such faulty misinformation for so many decades.

This is one reason why so many people are crazy, you know. Well, I’m glad that we’ve moved beyond propaganda in the 21st century. We don’t do that anymore. That’s like something that our grandparents and maybe our parents got into, but we’ve evolved way beyond that. Oh yeah, nobody’s crazy today. Well, and you said too, like maybe this is a lifelong thing of looking into Robert Anton Wilson’s biography. I hope it is, man, because the. Your first book, Chapel Perilous Life and Thought Crimes of Robert Anton Wilson, which everyone should go and get a copy of. It’s fascinating and I absolutely love how you are able to present the information and not necessarily defend or condemn on any side of that.

It’s a, it’s probably incredibly hard to do. I imagine you did some indexing yourself as you were working on this. So aside, I mean that book stands alone as a great reference for Robert Anton Wilson. You’ve also got your gabriel patrick kennedy.substock.com that’s kind of just like your ever flowing thoughts outside the book. What else you got working on? Are you working on A Part 2 of Chapel Perilous or what? Currently editing the. Well firstly, thank you man. Thanks for saying all that stuff. And yeah, I’m editing the audio book right now. So I just recorded it.

It’s Going to take a little bit of time. All diy, so look out for you. Are you reading it? Yes. Nice. Yes. Yeah, man. So that’s on the way. I was thinking, yeah, like I think, you know, kind of like maybe putting out some essays, behind the scenes stuff, some things that didn’t quite make it into the book. And you know, me and you’ve spoken about some other possibilities, you know, that hopefully there’ll be developments along the way. But yeah, I have. It’s mostly that right now, man. Like you know, Chapel Perilous audiobook coming. Check out the substack, the website chapelpayless us.

And yeah, just stay tuned because I have. Yeah. Some more work on the way. And stay tuned for sure because we’ll have Propanon back on here a bunch of other times. We’re gonna get to the bottom of whether or not who. Who is in the CIA. We’re gonna figure it out between me and you. We’re gonna figure it out at some point. I promise you. Right on. Yeah, you got me thinking. Ready for a cosmic conspiracy about Stanley Kubrick moon landings and the CIA. Go visit nasacomic.com nasir comic.com CIA’s biggest com Stanley Kubrick put us on this While we’re singing this song go visit NASA comic con.

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Hey, maybe your language a game how they playing it well without Lakers evade them whatever the cause they are to shapeshift snakes get decapitated met is the apex executioner flame you out. Nuclear bomb distributed at war rather gruesome for eyes to see max them out that I light my trees blow it off in the face. You’re despising me for what though calculated and rather cutthroat paranoid American must be all the blood smoke for real Lord, give me your day away. Vacate they wait around to hate Whatever they say, man, it’s not in the least bit. We get heavy roll tape when the beat hits a thing cuz you’re welcome for real, you’re welcome.

They ain’t never had a deal, you’re welcome man they lacking appeal, you’re welcome yet they doing it still you’re welcome.
[tr:tra].