Former Mob Boss Interviews Pastor Greg Laurie: The Man Who Saved My Life

➡ Charlie was a popular figure who greatly influenced many young people, even after his death. His influence led to the establishment of chapters on college campuses. The speaker shares his experience of being denied entry to a White House event due to incomplete paperwork, drawing a parallel to the importance of being on God’s list. The speaker also shares his personal journey of faith, which was greatly influenced by Pastor Greg Laurie, who helped him understand scripture during his time in solitary confinement. The speaker expresses his gratitude towards Pastor Greg and his family for their support and love, and invites everyone to join a Harvest crusade event in Utah.
➡ A former mob member turned Christian shares his transformative journey, highlighting his past life in the mob, his conversion to Christianity, and his current life as a Christian. He discusses his upcoming movie, which will tell his story of redemption, and his wife’s unwavering support throughout his journey. He also shares his admiration for a church that focuses on bringing people to God. The conversation also touches on the Harvest Crusades, a series of evangelistic events led by a pastor who was inspired by Billy Graham, and their impact over the past 30 years.
➡ This year, a large number of people attended a religious event at Angel Stadium, which had to be shut down due to overcapacity. The speaker emphasized the importance of using modern technology to spread the gospel and announced a special event in Utah following the tragic death of Charlie Kirk. Despite the short preparation time, the event has received significant support and is open to everyone. The speaker also highlighted the growing interest in religion among Gen Z, with more young people attending church and seeking truth.
➡ The text discusses the negative impacts of broken homes and the absence of a father figure on children, leading to issues like joining gangs, drug use, and imprisonment. It also touches on the rise of single-parent households in the Gen Z generation, leading to them being called the ‘hopeless generation’ with high suicide rates. The text criticizes the redefinition of family and gender identities, and the rise of trans individuals, viewing it as a deviation from God’s order. It also discusses the rise of antisemitism and the importance of recognizing Jews as God’s chosen people according to the Bible.
➡ The text discusses the history and significance of Israel, emphasizing its biblical importance and the belief that it is a fulfillment of prophecy. It also highlights the struggles and achievements of the Jewish people, including surviving the Holocaust and establishing a democratic state. The speaker defends Israel against accusations of genocide and colonization, arguing that they are the rightful inhabitants of the land. The text also touches on the speaker’s personal faith journey, his support for the Jewish people, and his belief in life after death for those who follow Christ.
➡ The text discusses the belief in heaven as a place of reunion with loved ones and a place for real activities, not just sitting on clouds. It emphasizes the importance of sharing personal stories of faith to connect with others and bring them to God. The text also addresses the misconception that being a Christian is about strictly following commandments, explaining that it’s more about developing a relationship with Jesus, who has already fulfilled the law. The text encourages inviting others to church and sharing the gospel in one’s own sphere of influence.
➡ The text discusses the importance of attending church and surrounding oneself with like-minded individuals. It emphasizes that being accountable to God leads to a successful and productive life. The text also highlights the role of church in nurturing and maintaining a relationship with Jesus. Lastly, it talks about the significance of setting a good example for younger generations by regularly attending church and participating in church activities.
➡ The text discusses the concept of hell, salvation, and faith in Jesus Christ. It emphasizes that hell is real and that rejecting Christ’s offer of forgiveness can lead to eternal judgment. However, God doesn’t want people to go to hell, which is why Jesus died on the cross. The text also explores the idea of salvation, suggesting that those who truly believe in Jesus Christ, repent, and ask for forgiveness will be saved. It concludes by discussing the importance of maintaining faith and the possibility of continuing to serve God throughout one’s life.
➡ The Harvest Crusades, free events that have been held for the past 30 years, are inviting everyone to join online. The events feature popular Christian musicians like Chris Tomlin and Phil Wickham, and include a message about forming a relationship with God through Jesus Christ. The speaker appreciates the Harvest Ministry and encourages everyone to join the upcoming event on November 16th, promising an amazing experience.

Foreign. I think that Charlie had their ear like nobody I’ve ever seen. It was actually a phenomena. And what’s even more amazing is, in a way, he still has their ear. I don’t know how much it’s grown, but it’s grown dramatically. And they’ve opened chapters on all these college campuses. Charlie had sort of a goal. I think they hit the goal and surpassed it right after he died. So he still is a voice to them. And these young kids, they want to hear the truth. This is the first fatherless generation you can actually describe that way.

Interestingly, they’re also called the hopeless generation. They also have the highest suicide rate of any generation. That’s unbelief. A while ago, I was invited to a little worship event at the White House, and I was going to do a prayer. I showed up and you have to go through security. And they said, you, name’s not on the list. I said, no, no, I’m on the list. I’m texting them right now. See, I need to be in there. No, your name is not on the list. And I realized what I had done was I failed to fill the form out completely.

I only filled it up partially. Thankfully, I was able to get the form completed and get in, but my name wasn’t on the list and I wasn’t going in. It didn’t matter what I said. And if your name is not on God’s list, you’re not getting any of it. How do you get on God’s list? Hey, everyone. Welcome to another sit down with Michael Francis. Hope everybody is doing well. All is very good, as always, very blessed on this end. And I give all the praise, honor and glory to our God for that. I have a very special guest today, somebody that I have really come to love over the years.

My family has come to love him and his family. He’s the spiritual leader of our church, Harvest, in both Riverside, Irvine, and a couple other places around the the country. And his name is Greg Laurie. Let me give you a little background on Pastor Greg. When I was in solitary confinement, this is back in 1991, worst night of my life, when that correctional officer handed me a Bible and I started to read Scripture. And that’s when I really developed my faith through those almost three years in solitary. Well, during that time, I had a Sony Walkman.

You young people, in case you don’t know what that is, it was like a radio. You can hear music and news from the outside. Had a Sony Walkman. And I was fumbling through it one Day, and I came across Greg Laurie, Pastor Greg Laurie’s radio show. And he would talk about Scripture. Everything with him is biblical. He’s. He’s totally in tune with gospel. Gospel. It’s all about Jesus and scripture. And when I was reading the Bible, I had trouble sometimes, you know, understanding a certain verse because sometimes scripture could be a little bit difficult in understanding the content.

Well, Pastor Greg, miraculously, I would say, he was always there to be able to help me really understand the verses that I was reading, put, put context into the content. And I listened to him for over two and a half years. When I came home, I found out that his, you know, church was in Riverside at that time. I wanted to go meet him and thank him for what he did to me while I was in solitary. So I did go. I did go to meet him. And it was funny because one of the people recognized me and, and went back and told Greg, hey, Greg, there’s some mob guy outside looking to see you.

And Greg said, oh, what did I do wrong? Did he say anything about getting whacked? You know, it was funny. That was back in 1996. And since then, he and I have been. Been very fast friends. I. I attend his church, and I have to tell you, his family, his wife Kath, his son Jonathan, and, And just everybody involved in the church have been so wonderful to me and my family. We all love them and, and, you know, through some very, very tough times, they were always there. I think you. Many of you remember one of my daughters at that time, close to being her fiance, tragically died in my home.

Pastor Greg was there that same day to comfort my daughter. The church really got her through some very, very trying times with her because she really, really took it hard, you know, for a long time, and they were so wonderful to her. That’s. That’s somebody that not only preaches the gospel, but lives the gospel. The entire family. And we got to love Kath. My wife and her are very close. My daughters are very close with her. Jonathan, his son, who will at some point pick up the mantle at Harvest. What a wonderful young man he is.

And I really love the family. So why I’m going to be sitting down with Pastor Greg today because we are going to be in Utah at Utah Valley University this coming Sunday, the 16th of November. We’re going to be there. And Greg is bringing his Harvest crusade there on that Sunday, something that he’s been doing for 33 years, I believe, or certainly over 30 years, he’s been bringing it to Anaheim Stadium, 50, 60, 70,000 people come in there for free and they hear a wonderful gospel message. They hear beautiful, beautiful music by the greatest Christian bands out there.

And then Greg does a, an altar call, a call to Christ. And I’m telling you people, thousands of people flood the field at Angel Stadium to accept our Lord. That’s how powerful the evening is, how powerful the message is, how powerful the worship is. And the people in Utah have asked Greg to bring this crusade there in only six weeks. At six weeks preparation, it usually takes a year to put it together, but the church all rallied around and we’re going there this weekend and I’m going to be doing a YouTube Instagram Facebook Rumble that evening.

So I want you all to join me. We’ll be posting, you know, information how to get. It starts at 6pm I think that’s Mountain time or Central time. We’ll double check it. But I really want you to come and I’m telling you, you’re going to be blessed. Everybody is so blessed at these events. It’s amazing. Lives are transformed, lives are changed. And Greg Laurie and his wonderful family and the staff at Harvest has put this all together year after year after year. And I know this is going to be very, very special in the wake of that horrible tragedy that occurred there just a few short weeks ago with our dear friend Charlie Kirk.

So be there. But before we do that, I want you to listen in to my dear friend, great, great, great pastor, wonderful church pastor Greg Laurie. Here we go. So great. We’ve known each other several years and you’ve interviewed me. It’s several. I know we’re both showing our age, but several years better than I have. Well, I don’t know. I’m older than you, but not really. Yeah, a couple years. Wait, how old are you? 74. I guess you are. Yeah, I got two years older. Respect your seniors. I respect you. But you’ve, you’ve interviewed me several times.

I’ve spoken at the church, but I’ve never had you sitting in this chair and had the ability to, to interview. Great to be here. Thank you for having me. Well, thank you. And first, I want to tell everybody how we first met. Yeah. So that you know, I’m in the hole for 29 months and seven days. People know that I’m reading my Bible and I had a Sony Walkman. Our Gen Z people, they don’t know what that is. But you know, you got a radio, you can listen to the outside world. So as I’m reading my Bible, there’s Some parts in scripture that sometimes you need a little help with.

Yeah. And then I discover your radio show. I didn’t know who you were, but I discovered your radio show. And Greg, I got to tell you, it was almost like the Holy Spirit. When I had problem with scripture, you would come on and talk about that particular verse, whether it be a few days later or what. And you helped me interpret scripture during that time. So. And I did that for almost three years listening to you. So I knew your voice said everything. And when I got out, I said, you know what, I really want to go and thank this man.

He really helped me. And I find out that you’re in Riverside, Southern California. So I go to Riverside and I tell one of your people there, I said, listen, I want to see Pastor Greg. I said, I just want to thank him for something. Well, he recognized me as a mob guy, a former mob guy. And he went in and told you that this mob guy is outside looking for you. And I think you had a reaction to that. Well, I said, first of all, he’s a mob guy. He wants to meet you. And I said, did he say anything about sleeping with fishes? I mean, I’m like, did he use the word whack at any point? You know, I was kind of half joking, but they said, no, this guy’s become a Christian.

And I immediately didn’t believe it. And I didn’t believe it because I thought, how could you be in the mob and become a Christian and live to tell the story? But of course, that was before Google, wasn’t it? We didn’t have any of that back then. Yeah, we didn’t have. Yeah. So. But I did a little research on you and quickly found you, you were the real thing in your amazing story of how you, because you didn’t inform on any of the people you knew and you served that time and you got out and you’ve lived to tell the story, but.

And I was thinking, but, you know, did he really become a Christian? But I’ve known you like 30 years now, so, you know, it’s. Your life has been transformed, still being transformed. We’re all works in progress. But it was great to meet you back then. And now all these years later, see how you’ve been able to touch so many people. You know, I’ve used your story in so many of my messages. I’ve never heard a story like it before. It’s kind of one of those one off stories that it’s kind of like Saul of Tarsus. Who would have ever thought that the Christian killer would become not only a believer, but then an apostle.

And who would have ever thought that a guy formerly associated with a mob, a made man, would become a Christian and then travel the world sharing this story? It’s amazing. You know, so well, I learned, you know, when God has a different plan and a purpose for your life, nothing is impossible. And, you know, coincidentally, this Halloween is 50 years that I took an oath and became a mate. Well, that’s right. You did it on Halloween night 50 years ago, 1975. Yeah. That’s an eerie story. It is. But, you know, for me, Halloween is kind of a celebration now because, you know, this is to realize that you’ve been.

That’s great. Given. Yeah. Yeah. Really something. So everybody’s celebrating one thing on Halloween. I’m celebrating. That’s great. I still wondering, when are we going to see a movie about your life? You know, sooner than you think. Oh, okay. Actually, I’ve been working with a production company for the last 16 months. Probably spent 50 hours with the writer. And I’ll have the. What they think will be the final draft of the script to this point on Monday. Wow. Yeah. It’s coming up, so I’m really happy. You know, over the years, I’ve always. My wife never wanted it, and I’ve always kind of refused it.

But this production company, when they came to me and the writer, they said, michael, there’s going to be a movie about your life. It happens when you’re dead. You’re not going to capitalize on it. You may as well let it go. So I spoke to her, and she said, okay, let’s do it. So I’m happy with the script because in the past, people have wanted to just tell a mob story. Yeah. And I told them, I’m not interested in that. That’s not the story. And if you want to go the distance and tell the redemption story, then we’re going to.

And they were very willing to do that. And it’s. And I think, Cammie, your wife Camille, is a very big part of this story. I mean, how she stood by you all those years you were. I mean, you got married, and literally, you went almost immediately into prison for eight years. Yeah. And she hung in there and stood by your side, and. And people probably don’t know that she actually is running the controls on this podcast, which means she can bleep something out anytime she wants. She can bleep you out. Yes, she can. And she’s done that.

Trust me. You know, we were married 40 years. But I found there’s a different thing when you’re working with your wife. Yeah, yeah. It’s challenging, it’s different. But somehow we’re making it through. We’re getting along. I think it was 20 years and we did this. It might have been a problem, but after 40 year old. Yeah. But you know what I want to say, Greg? I’ve been attending your church now for quite some time. And one of the things I love about harvest and your ministry is that it’s totally focused on Jesus. Your total focus is on bringing people to the Lord.

It’s every Sunday service, everything we talk about, everything that we do, and to watch every Sunday. I’ve been. I’ve been actually posting the people that have been accepting Christ every Sunday. It’s unbelievable. Posted those on Acts. Yeah. That’s great. Thank you for that. It’s really unreal. And I want to talk about the Harvest Crusades that you’ve been doing for close to 35. Over 30 years. Yeah, over 30 years now. And the upcoming one that I think is going to be very significant in Utah. Yeah. So how. How did first of all, these Harvest Crusades, what. What gave you that thought to start them? Well, you know, when I first became a Christian, I.

I felt a call to ministry, but I felt more of a call to be an evangelist. I actually went to see Billy Graham in a stadium shortly after my conversion and. And I watched him. And I thought, it’s sort of like, this is what I want to do when I grow up. I was 17. I thought, I believe this is what I’m called to do. And indeed, I began to do that immediately. I was traveling with different Christian bands. I wasn’t married at the time. I just preached the gospel after they do a concert. And I thought, this is my calling.

But then the Lord called me to be a pastor. I went into it reluctantly, dragging my feet for a number of reasons. At a high school education, I didn’t feel equipped or qualified to be a pastor. But a little flock of people, of young people started attending this Bible study, and I ended up taking over from someone else. And they started calling me pastor. And I was looking for someone to take it over, like, let’s get a proper person in here and I’ll get back to evangelism. But now I look back in retrospect and I realize God called me to do both.

But I love pastoring because it disciplines you to stay in the word of God. I love the local church. You know, I think everything should support the work of the church. You know, Jesus only started one organization when he walked our planet. It’s the church. You know, he started the church. He loves the church. He fact, he tells us, you know, husbands love your wife as Christ loves the church. You know, so that’s very important to me. But I am an evangelist, and it is a calling. And in speaking to Billy Graham, when he was coming to the end of his crusade ministry, I was starting mine.

And so he asked me to join him and help him with sermon preparation because he wanted some fresh illustrations to reach younger people, which I did. And I. And so I spent a lot of concentrated time with Billy, and I felt like I’d been enrolled in the finest evangelistic university on earth with the greatest instructor. To me, he’s the gold standard of evangelism. But how it started was Pastor Chuck Smith, who helped us get started with our church. If people saw the Jesus revolution film, he was played by Kelsey Grammer. And the movie ends with Kelsey playing Chuck, giving the keys to my character Joel Courtney playing me.

And it wasn’t exactly like that, but it was close to it. Chuck opened the door for me to start a church. But then a number of years later, he asked me to come to his church, Calvary Chapel, and speak to the young people on Monday nights, which I was doing. And that began to grow and sort of exploded. And kids were coming to Christ every week. And it was Chuck who said, greg, let’s go to a larger venue. So we booked the Pacific Amphitheater in 1990, and that was the first crusade. So that was sort of our springboard, and we’ve been doing them ever since.

And that one was so successful, very successful, that you just started from that point and kept going. And now it’s over 30 years. And I know I’ve attended many of them. And you have 50,000 people plus, you know, in Anaheim Stadium and other places. Yeah. Amazing. This last year was our best ever. We had, let’s see, 45,000 people. And. But what was amazing is normally a really good crusade. You’ll have a 10% response by that. I mean, I give an evangelistic message, and I call people to come forward. They walk forward on the field and pray a prayer to accept Christ.

On a successful crusade, 10% of that crowd will come forward. Maybe the year before, I think it was actually 4,500. Almost exactly this year, we had 5,500 people come forward. That’s really high percentage. Yeah. And they had already shut the. The building, the facility down because they couldn’t seat Any more people. That was the first for Angel Stadium. And then they shut the invitation down because there were too many people on the field, and people were backed up on the aisles, and it was amazing. So God’s still blessing them because there are just new generations. When I started, it was a whole different world.

But the preaching of the gospel is always going to reach people. But we can use all the modern technologies, like we are podcasting, and we can go on YouTube and TikTok and Facebook and Instagram and Rumble, and you name it, we should get out there and be on it. It’s, you know, Paul had the Roman road system. We have modern technology enabling us to go to the whole world instantaneously, and we got to use the opportunity. And you. And you broadcast every. Every week, all over social media. You know, it normally takes you, I would assume, a year to prepare for the.

The upcoming harvest crusade. Yeah. But this year, something very special is happening in the wake, I would say, of Charlie Kirk’s death. Yes. And that is that you’re going to be going to Utah. And you prepared this all I know because I attend church in six weeks. Yeah. It’s less now. Less than that. Yeah. And was this a calling? Did they ask you to come this soon? Yeah. So we had been talking with pastors in Utah about doing a crusade, and our. We’re very busy. And so we said, okay, I think we can come in in 2027.

But after Charlie was tragically assassinated at the UVU campus in Utah, we contacted the pastors and we said, is there anything we can do? They said, yes, come now. We need you to come now. And so my crusade director came to me and said, what do you think? I said, let’s do it. I think it’s important. And so we committed immediately. And. And so this is the first time we’ve ever mounted an entire crusade with only six weeks of run time. But the doors have opened up dramatically, and we have cooperation from many of the people there.

And. And what’s really unusual, of course, is people know Utah is. A lot of Mormons live in Utah, and it’s sort of the headquarters of the LDS Church. And. And we have been welcomed by everybody. And I ran into Glenn Beck at the White House recently, and I told him about this event. And he said. And I told him that, you know, the Mormon people were welcoming us, the LDS people, Latter Day Saints. And he said, well, are Mormons welcome? I said, glenn, everybody’s welcome. It’s this crusade is for everybody, and I’m there to Tell people how to come into a relationship with Jesus Christ.

And Glenn said, then I think it’s great. I support it. Great. So that’s what I’m there to do. And so I think it’s really needed. You know, it’s like the whole state was traumatized. I mean, who would have ever thought that something like this would happen and happen there, of all places? And we’re going to be in the very campus it happened at. I’m not going to the exact spot that Charlie was at. I’m going to be speaking in the arena, but it’s the same campus. And we want to just bring help and hope in the name of Jesus and tell people how to have this relationship with God.

Because, you know, since Charlie Zethel, a lot of people who didn’t know his name have looked into him and they’ve watched his videos. And Charlie did talk about cultural issues and political issues, but, you know, he was described as a political activist. I mean, I guess you could call him that, but I. I just think of him as a Christian leader, a Christian influencer. And he always was talking about his faith without any embarrassment, like you. You know, he talked about it, and kids would challenge him on college campuses about what the Bible says, and he would answer and point them to Christ.

And there’s a guy I just interviewed, Frank Turek, who is a friend of Charlie’s. He was an apologist. And he had a conversation with Charlie not long before Charlie died. And Charlie said, all the political stuff we do, it’s small potatoes compared to the gospel. And so, you know, I want to tell the people on that campus and for those that will watch, it’ll be live on YouTube. And I believe you might even be doing a broadcast from there as well. So your audience, which has grown very large, I see the YouTube award on your wall for a million subscribers, you probably have more than that now.

We’re approaching 2 million. Wow. Congratulations. The little silver one above it for a hundred thousand. I have that. That’s as far as I’ve gotten. Well, you’ll get to that one. So could I just have yours in the. Sure. I’ll put my knee over your knee. Where is that? Did you win that? Kind of. Well, I took it. My friends, if you ever wanted some real insight into me behind the scenes information, zoom calls, Q&As, stories I haven’t told before. You want to become part of the elite? Join the family. We have a thousand members already. Michaelfrancis.com family.

It’s an offer that you shouldn’t refuse. Anyway, so I forgot I was talking about. But yet. But you know that that’s what we’re there to do to. It’ll be broadcast live. That’s what I was saying. So, you know, this is. I think people, there’s a lot of interest in this crusade because of what just happened there. And I think it’s a great way for us to tangibly show God’s love. Well, you know, Greg, I think I’m witnessing and seeing and hearing about somewhat of a Jesus revolution. Yeah. And we’re going to talk about your film because I think it had a lot to do with it because so many people have seen that film, a huge success.

But how important do you think it is that Charlie was reaching out to the youth, to Gen Z, so to speak. Speak. I think that Charlie had their ear like nobody I’ve ever seen. It was actually a phenomena. And what’s even more amazing is in a way he still has their ear because now that audiences. I don’t know how much it’s grown, but it’s grown dramatically. And chapters. You know, his organization is called Turning Point USA and they’ve opened chapters on all these college campuses. Charlie had sort of a goal. I think they hit the goal and surpassed it right after he died.

So he still is a voice to them. And these young kids, they want to hear the truth. They’re tired of all this woke ideology that’s been stuffed down their throats by these liberal professors and far left politicians and the culture in general. And it’s just like a constant dirge of this awful material. And so, you know, kids by nature rebel. Right. It seems like every generation sort of reacts to what happened before it. Gen Z is kind of rebelling against all of this stuff. And more Gen Z kids are going to church right now than their baby boomer parents.

See, that’s new. Normally it’s like the parents are dragging the kids to church now the kids are coming to church on their own. So church attendance is up among young people and specifically, and this is surprising among young Gen Z men. I think that may be unprecedented. And I know you talk a lot about the importance of biblical masculinity. Be a man that’s seen in the Godfather. Yes. Or Vito Corleone slaps that. What’s that singer’s name? Oh, not. Gosh, I forget. Well, he’s based on Frank Sinatra. Yeah. But anyway, so many times he slaps him because he starts to go, be a man, you know.

And I think that there’s Been voices out there like Jordan Peterson has been a very influential voice, certainly Charlie Kirk, I think you and others challenging young men to be men. And they’re coming, they’re coming to church and they want to hear truth. And so this is exciting because the Jesus movement was a youth revival. That’s what was unique about it. It wasn’t only youth, but it was a lot of young people coming to faith and, and having their lives changed. And I was one of those young people along with my wife Kathy. Well, you know, I, I, I’ve always said I speak a lot to the youth and, and what motivated me to do that when I was in prison, Greg, there was a lot of young kids coming into the system.

21, 22 years old, mandatory minimum drug sentences, meaning they got 20 years. They’d have to do 17 and a half. There was no parole. Very hard for a young person to come out of that. So before I was even a Christian, I would sit down and talk to them because I have a heart for kids. And you know, you could write the same script for every single one of them. Broken home, no father figure in the house. Mom normally young, having a few kids, trying to do her best. She can’t really focus on this kid, so he gravitates to the street, local gang banger, drug dealer, before, you know, he’s in prison.

And I said, you know, the problem here is they don’t have a father figure. It’s the breakup of the family that’s causing all of this. And I’ve said this to so many people and they say, well, you know, that’s not all our problem. I said, no, it is your problem because we created the environment that they’re living in and we have to do something about it. But don’t you see that as the problem? 100%? Yeah. It’s like I read this stat recently and I had not noticed this before, but Gen Z, like something like 28, maybe 35%, pretty large percentage of them are in single parent households.

And that what that really means is no dad. Now thank God for the mothers, you know, that are there, but no father. So this is the first fatherless generation. You can actually describe that way. Interestingly, they’re also called the hopeless generation. They also have the highest suicide rate of any generation. They have that. That’s unbelievable. Well, there’s cause and effect here, isn’t there? And you know, so you can look at stats and you cited a couple. But almost every social ill can be directly related to a broken home. And specifically the absence of a father, kids that end up in prison, kids that end up in gangs, girls that end up pregnant outside of wedlock, kids that turn to drugs.

The list goes on. Just take whatever it is, you know, this is the problem in people wanting to destroy the family, redefine the family. Men thinking they’re women, women thinking they’re men, and even people living together, you know, outside of marriage. This is all out of God’s order. If we would just return to God’s order and do it the way he says it would change our nation literally overnight. You know, Greg, to me, this is like, this is all demonic as far as I’m concerned. Because did you ever really think. I mean, just today I read the COVID of Glamour magazine.

Yeah, I heard. You know, right? They’re all trans. Trans men. Yeah. It’s crazy that I never heard. I never thought in my lifetime and I’ve seen a lot that I would see anything this crazy out, you know, I mean, is it demonic? Is it biblical? Is this. Do you think biblical prophecy is playing out with all this craziness? That’s interesting question, you know. You know, when you look back at the days of Noah, and Jesus said, as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be when the son of man comes? Two kind of unique features of the days of Noah.

One was excessive violence, which we see all around us like we’ve never seen before. And the assassination of Charlie Kirk, you know, was on everybody’s social media feed. That’s just awful. But just violence, how violence is up in the streets of our nation and criminals are just multiplying. It’s just horrible. But then the other thing was a sexual perversion, and I think we’re seeing new levels of it. And I wonder with that Glamour magazine thing in particular, sometimes I think they just want attention. I think like in the world of WOKE ideology, it’s kind of a virtue signaling.

And maybe they just wanted their magazine mentioned because they’re not even in print anymore, they’re just online. I think a lot of magazines are dying. But anyway, it might have been a cry for attention or whatever you want to call it. It’s wrong. And they’re promoting and in effect celebrating something that is so evil, it’s so anti woman. What happened to the women’s movement? Why are they crying out against this? It’s like this is a magazine celebrating successful women. And you put men, you can call them whatever you want. They’re dudes, okay? As Aerosmith so famously saying, dude looks like a Lady, you know, they’re men, you know, so even if they’ve gone and they’ve done some surgery or they’ve had some kind of hormone treatment, they’re still men and they’ll always be men.

And the same for the women trying to become the men. And that is an absolute twisting and sort of the logic is one, oh, but you’ve got to support this because if you don’t, their suicide rate is very high. The reality is the suicide rate is far higher after they get the treatments, after they get the surgery. So this whole premise that’s been pushed on us isn’t even true? No, it’s not. And you know, the thought of it, me having seven kids, seven grandchildren, the thought of a, you know, 1112 year old kid of mine thinking of gender affirming surgery to change, it’s insanity.

It has to be demonic. Well, the parents have to be held responsible. Have you noticed that in Hollywood, how many Hollywood people have trans kids? What is, why is that? Well, because they must be encouraging it in some way, shape or form. Is this, I’m asking a question now, I don’t know the answer. Is this a form of virtue signaling? Like, look, I’m so open minded, liberal, you know, two of my children are trans is not, I mean, it’s craziness. And I feel these, you know, they’re children, my heart goes out to the kids. They don’t know kids have questions, they’re going through changes in their bodies and so forth and they just need mom or dad to say, no, you’re a girl, you’re a guy.

Let me help you with that. But you know, I think, I wonder if these, some of these parents are supporting this. And it’s just awful. You know, that’s, that’s why it was so important, the work that Charlie was doing in getting to these kids at a young age and bringing them to the Lord. Because if they’re with the Lord, they’re not going to be doing anything like this. It’s, it’s, and this is what you’re doing in your ministry, you know, reaching out to them again in Utah. I have to ask you this, Greg, because so many things that have happened currently, there’s so much controversy out there.

I’ve been getting some flack from people because it seems that Israel has become the demon nation. Now to so many anti Semites out there, I’m not going to mention the names that have been, you know, chanting this all along, but I have always said there’s been this big controversy over The Jews being God’s chosen people. And biblically Old Testament and New, the Jews are God chosen people. I mean, it’s very, it’s very clear. What do you say about that? And to those that say it’s not true. Yeah. I just recently interviewed Marco Rubio, Secretary of State, and I asked him this very question, why the rise of antisemitism? And it is definitely coming back strong.

And I was just in Washington D.C. and I went to the Holocaust Museum. Have you ever been there? No. It’s well worth going to. Not a pleasurable experience, but an eye opening one. And even though I’ve been there before, I’m just, oh, you’re so overwhelmed. And what they do so effectively is they show how it started and what it became. And the way it started was kind of like profiling the Jews. The Jews are the problem. And they would do these caricatures of Jewish people and then they said, okay, now you can’t. You have to put a Star of David in your window and identify yourself as a Jewish business.

Okay, now we’re going to shut your business now down. Now you have to go to this little ghetto and live there. Okay, now we’re going to take you out of the ghetto to a work camp. And they would go to these work camps and over one of them, I believe it was Auschwitz in German, it was written work makes freedom. So they would go into the camp thinking, well, if I work hard, you know, we’ll get out of here. Well, no, they were extermination camps. They were part of Hitler’s final solution and he ultimately killed, murdered 6 million Jewish men, women and children.

And they actually have one of the boxcars in the museum that you walk through that was used to transport them in one of the little barracks beds that they would have been in in Auschwitz as well. And you see all these photographs. So I bring this up because anti Semitism is back and it’s popular and it’s very popular in the social communication world and YouTube and other things. There’s an anti Semitic message. So, you know, we have to go back to what the Bible says. I believe the Bible. I’m not Jewish, I’m a gentile. But everything I have came to me through the Jewish people.

And after October 7th, when Israel was attacked and over 1200 people were murdered and if we went into detail and what happened, it, it’s Holocaust. Like, in fact, they look at it as a second worst thing to happen to them from the Holocaust because they didn’t just kill people though, that’s horrible. They tortured people. They actually did put babies in ovens. They actually did. Well, they did unspeakable things. And so, you know, I feel like, do you understand the history of this nation? So here. Here is this nation that came out of the four corners of the earth and was regathered.

God gave the land of Israel to the Jewish people and to Abraham. God said, I will bless them that bless you, and I will curse those that curse you. And so they were scattered. And the Holocaust, 6 million of them were killed. And as if on cue, they began to return to Israel. You know, they were on cue. God was bringing them back. It was a sign of the end times that Lord said he would regather the Jewish people. Ezekiel 37 and 38 tells you the whole story. They’re like a valley of dry bones. And Ezekiel has a vision of the bones coming back together, and then flesh on the bones and muscle, and they’re alive.

And he says, these are the people of Israel. They’ll come back into the land. This will happen in the last days. So May 14, 1948, a modern miracle took place. The nation of Israel was born. They were immediately attacked by nations around them. They’ve survived it. And so is the modern state of Israel a fulfillment of Bible prophecy? Yes, it is. Is everything the modern state of Israel done? Is it something we would agree with? Probably not. But have we agreed with every military campaign done by the United States of America? I mean, I am a patriotic American.

We have made some mistakes over the years, and they have made some mistakes as well. But are they responsible for a genocide? Give me a break. Do people even know what the word genocide means? It means you identify a people and completely eliminate them. There’s been no genocide. The only genocide was the Holocaust or an attempt to be a genocide. And then we talk about, well, Israel, they’re colonizing the land. No, they aren’t. They’re the indigenous people, as we like to call them. They’re the people God gave the land to. They’re the rightful occupiers of the land.

And in fact, they’re not even occupying all the land that God gave to them. And then they’ve been attacked by Iran that has funded terrorism through groups like Hamas and Hezbollah and the Houthis. And they’ve, you know, survived. And they’re also the only real democracy in the Middle East. And so I think that we should stand by the nation Israel. We should stand by the Jewish people. And in fact, after the attack on October 7, I was invited to Speak at the Museum of Tolerance in Los Angeles. It was an exclusively Jewish audience. It was very interesting opportunity.

I was the only Christian there that I know of, apart from my wife and a couple friends that came with us. The rabbi gave me a beautiful introduction and it was surprising to me. He said, this man has done more for people than most of you in this audience. I thought, wow, that’s nice of him to say. And I got up and I just said. And I was very honest with him. I said, look, I was a confused 17 year old kid, I was using drugs, I was going the wrong way in life. And someone told me about Jesus Christ and he changed my life.

And I began to read this book called the Bible given to me by your people. So thank you for that. Thank you for preserving the scripture. I wanted to give the glory to God and talk about Jesus. But then I talked about, because I believe the Bible. I know you’re God’s chosen people and I want you to know we stand with you and pray with you. After I was done, a number of them came up and said, why don’t you join our team? Why don’t you come become a rabbi? I’m on your team. I am already on the team, but in a different way.

So I think that we should stand up for the Jewish people. I think anti Semitism is evil, it’s devilish. And I think that we need to go back and read our Bible again because God keeps his promises and God made promises to Abraham. And then Romans 11. Paul just really confirms that God has not cast his people away. They are still his chosen people. And if God would break his promise to the Jews, then he’s going to break his promises to us. And I rely on the promises of God, as do you. So I believe they’re the chosen people and always will be.

And if I were, would I be correct in saying, because I’ve had a lot of discussion about this, I said, listen, the Jews were God’s chosen people to bring forth the Messiah. Yeah, that’s right. Jesus was a Jew. Right. And I also said, look, it’s not Jews right or wrong all the time. I mean even God punished them when they, they were sinful. So it’s not that. Everything they do, we have to stand high. But that doesn’t eliminate the fact that biblically they are God’s chosen people. No question. Well, it’s like our children, you know, do our children always do what we want them to do and say, we want them to say no, but are they still our children? Of course, because we love them.

They’re our children. These are the God people that God chose. And he himself described him as a rebellious and stiff necked people. And they wandered needlessly in the wilderness for 40 years, you know, longer than they needed to. But the point is they’re still God’s chosen people. And I do find them to be a remarkable people. I have a lot of friends, Jewish friends, and I’ve been to Israel many times and I’m always so impressed by just what they’ve accomplished with such a small nation. But yes, they’ll always be his people. Yeah. And I think people for some reason are resentful of the success that Jewish people have.

I a lot of Jewish friends also. And I think sometimes there’s resentment, there’s resentment in that and they take it to another level. Yeah. You know, even this whole conspiracy and, and I don’t know, I, I can’t weigh in. I don’t have the information in front of me. But now there’s a lot of conspiracy theories out there that Charlie was killed by the Jews, you know, that there was some kind of big plot. Doesn’t make sense to me. Why would they kill one of their biggest supporters? I mean, Charlie was very pro Israel and so I think that’s ridiculous.

I’ve even heard it said that we, the White House played a role. I mean, this is crazy, these conspiracy theories. Ridiculous. I dismiss all of them. Yeah, they were blaming Trump also. Something went crazy. You know, while I have you here, Greg, I want to something really important to me, especially in the wake. My father in law passed away recently and you know, we all lost loved ones in our lives. But what is the. I know there’s no definitive answer, but I think you can give it to us the best. When a person dies, that is with the Lord, is their soul immediately brought into heaven? Yeah.

Yes, clearly. You know, the Bible says to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. And Paul said, I have a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better. So yes, when a Christian dies, they go into God’s presence. However, the body is buried. And one day the Bible promises a bodily resurrection when those who have died will be brought out of their graves. So that will happen at what is called the rapture first. Thessalonians 4 says, the dead in Christ shall rise first. We which are alive and remaining shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

So there are promises in scripture of a bodily resurrection that as Christ was raised from the dead in an actual body, so we will be as well. Well, we’ll still be us. We’ll just be sort of the massively upgraded, perfected version of us. And we will know one another in heaven and we will have memories of things that happened on earth, but we’ll also have perspective and will grow. It would even seem that we will grow in our knowledge as we’re in heaven because God’s going to reveal these things to us, the great mysteries of eternity.

But the simple answer is when a Christian dies, they go straight to heaven. And that’s been corroborated by Jesus own words on the cross to the thief of the cross. Very true. When he said, today you’ll be with me in paradise. And again, the reason I ask, because I get these questions all the time. Will we be. Will we know our loved ones? Will we know our family? I guess the answer is, do you think you’ll be more stupid in heaven than you are on earth? You’ll know, yes, you will know them 100%. You’ll know them.

Because the Bible says we will know as we are known. So our knowledge will be much stronger. So we will be reunited. And that is one of the great things about heaven, is the reunion. Because our son has been in heaven 16 years, a parent never plans on a child dying before they do. So that is something that you don’t get over it, you just get through it. But one of the great hopes we have is he is not just a part of our past, he is also a part of our future. And so we’ll see him again and other loved ones that have died in faith and have preceded us.

We’ll see them, we’ll know them. We’ll continue to have great adventures together. I think people have a really odd view of heaven. We just sit around on clouds and strum harps. You know, the Bible says in heaven, we are going to worship the Lord. In heaven, we’re going to serve the Lord. The Bible calls heaven a city. It calls it a country. And Jesus says, I’ve gone to prepare a place for you. So heaven is a real place for real people to do real things. And I would even suggest that there will be things we will do in heaven that maybe we hoped we could have done on earth.

You know, the Bible even talks about our homes and our gardens and especially when heaven comes to earth and the new earth, you know, after the millennium. So there is going to be many adventures and new memories to be made and reunion with Our loved ones again on the other side. You know, I think as a result of attending services and seeing how, you know, your main objective is to bring people to the Lord. You know, I go out and share my testimony all the time, but in recent, I would say in the last year or so, I.

I feel an urgency that I’m not up there only to share a story. I’m up there to let people understand how urgent it is for you to accept the Lord. Maybe because I’m getting older, because it just. I just feel it so much. And that should be the, that should be the focus of everyone’s ministry. It’s not about us telling a story. It’s about bringing people to the Lord and having them come. And I think now, you know, focusing on the youth like Charlie did and like, I see you are going to, to harvest in, in Utah.

I think this is, this has got to be a primary ministry now, getting to these young people. I think so. And, you know, and everybody has a story to tell. I mean, granted, you have one of the more dramatic stories I’ve ever heard, you know, coming out of, you know, the crime, the criminal world, out of the mob, and, and all the things that happened to you and how God got hold of you and turned your life around. To me, it’s like comparable to, like the conversion of Saul of Tarsus on the Damascus road. Like, who would have ever thought such a thing, you know, also Alice Cooper, who I’ve interviewed, you know, he’s another story that just.

Who would have ever thought. Alice Cooper, right? He could have been another dead rock star and he partied with all of them, and he’s alive and well and healthy and walking with Jesus Christ. But no, we’re not all Alice Cooper. We’re not all Michael Frenzies, you know, but we all have a story to tell. Here’s our story in a nutshell. You know, like the man who was blind and was healed, he said, once I was blind. And now I see even if you were a moral person and you were a rule keeper and you did all the things one should do, you still needed Jesus.

Or maybe you were a gang banger, or you were a drug user or you were an alcoholic, and the list goes on. Everybody qualifies for needing Jesus, and everybody has a story to tell. And, you know, your story will connect with someone because they might not connect to maybe your story or even to my story. Oh, I wasn’t like that. You know, okay, but, you know, but everybody needs Jesus. And so maybe your story as a religious person or a moral person, but you came to Christ. That’s still a testimony. And I think one of the most effective tools we have in our evangelistic toolbox is our personal story.

In almost every message I give, I start with my story because I think people think, oh, preacher? Who wants to hear a preacher? So I just tell them how I came to faith, and they go, oh, wow, he is a guy just like me. Yeah. Because I am. But God got hold of me, and no one is beyond the reach of God. So I think we all don’t have a podcast that reached millions of people, but we have a platform, we have a pulpit, so to speak. We have a sphere of influence. So, you know, the Great Commission is going to all the world and preach the gospel.

We could personalize it and say, go into all of your world and preach the gospel. You have an audience ready to hear. I did read recently that something like 90% of non believers would get go to church if they were invited by a friend. So that’s leverage. It was very high. Is that right? Yeah, it’s very high. It surprised me, in fact, because I thought, really? But the key was brought by a friend. So you have a relationship with someone, so you leverage that relationship and say, hey, would you do something for me? I’d really appreciate it.

Yeah, sure, man. What? Well, come to church with me, you know, and so that’s something we can all do. Well, you know, it’s interesting that you say that because, you know, people say to me, michael, it’s so hard to be a Christian. It really is. And I said, you know why? Because a lot of people think that to be a Christian, you have to get a hold of the Ten Commandments, go one by one and say, how am I going to follow all these commandments? What am I going to do? How much work am I going to put in? And honestly, when I first became a Christian, I said, is too easy.

Just confess my sins and accept the Lord. It’s too easy. But then I started to realize it’s not about working hard to be a Christian. It’s about really getting that relationship with Jesus because he just. He changes your mindset. Things that were important before, not important now, sinful things. You know, you don’t. You don’t live in that pattern of sin. You’re still going to fall, you’re still going to make mistakes, but you have a conscience about it, and you want to be forgiven. So, you know, what would you say to those people out there that are struggling with that they’re saying, come on, Michael, it can’t be that easy.

I’ve been a drug addict my whole life. I’ve been a gambler. I didn’t treat my family properly. What do you say to them? I’d say Jesus did the heavy lifting. If you had lived the best life imaginable, you still would have fallen short of God’s glory. Because the Bible says, if you offend him one point of the law, you’re guilty of all of it. So because we could not satisfy the righteous demands of God because we’re not good enough, we may be good in a relative sense, especially comparatively, with other people. But because we’re not good enough, God did the ultimate and he sent his own son to suffer and die in our place on the cross and to rise again from the dead.

So Jesus did it from the cross. He used one single word, tetelestai, which is translated, it is finished, it is accomplished. So, no, I didn’t do it, but he did it. So I accept this gift, this gift of forgiveness, this gift of eternal life. However, if I’ve really been converted, if Christ has really come into my life, it should impact me in the way I live. And the Commandments. The Ten Commandments were never there just to live your life by, though they’re great guides for your life and for society. But the Bible says the law was given to drive us to Christ.

Because I look at the law and I can’t do it, I fall short. But the law brings me to the Savior, to the Lawgiver. And when he comes in my life, I finally want to do these things out of desire instead of duty. Jesus summed it up. He said, love the Lord your God with all of your heart, soul and mind. Love your neighbor and yourself. And the Commandments will be taken care of, basically, because what are the Commandments? First four commandments are my relationship with God. You know, don’t have any other gods before me, no graven images, etc.

Last Six Commandments, you know, honor your father and mother, don’t steal, don’t lie, don’t commit adultery. So if I love God with all of my heart, I’ve got the first four covered. If I love my neighbor as myself, I’ve got the final six covered. But it doesn’t come from O. I got this one. I missed that one. No, because my heart changes like you said. And let me ask you, how important do you think it is for people to attend church? Let me. Let me answer that first. I want to see if you go Along, I tell a lot of our young people, if you get two things right in life, you have a good shot of success, of having a productive life.

Number one, I tell them you are who you hang out with. Yeah. The people that you associate with, that you surround yourself with, so important, you want people that are going to have the same beliefs as you in the right way. Right. Secondly, I say who you are accountable to in life is going to direct the path that your life goes down. So when you’re accountable to God, all good things flow from accountability to God. If you can do those two things right, you got a good shot. So a lot of guys say, michael, I don’t have to go to church.

You know, church is whatever. I said, no, church is part of the nutrition that you need in order to establish and maintain that relationship with Jesus. What do you say? Because, you know, a lot of people, oh, I know why the pastor wants me to come to church. You know. Yeah, of course. They want me to tithe and they want me to deal with that. You know, you hear that. You may not hear that, but I hear things like that all the time. What do. What do you say about church, attending church? Well, first of all, I think those are great pieces of advice.

You know, show me your friends, I’ll show you your future. So it really matters who you hang around with. But coming back to church, you know, we are wired to worship. We are built for relationship. We’re not meant to do life alone. And I think church is more than just, you know, attending on Sunday, though. That’s very important. I mean, that’s like, let’s just start there. Just come every Sunday. Make that a discipline of your life. You know, studies have been done, and I don’t have the numbers in front of me, but I’ll approximate, as I recall, like, it’s sort of like a father and mother attend church and take their kids to church.

There is like a 65% chance that the kids, when they become adults, will go to church on their own. Now, if only father attends church, it is more like 45% lower, but still pretty good that the kids will attend church when they become adults. If only mom does it, it’s a smaller percentage. But if neither father nor mother attend church on a regular basis, basically the kids won’t either. So you’re setting an example for your children. And, you know, and I want to see about you, Michael, and your family. You know, I always know when you’re there because you have a very big family.

Right. And you’re Such a beautiful family. And you’re there in the front row. You sit kind of over to the left at the third service, Orange County Harvest. And that’s such a great. You know, you’re modeling it because you’re there, Dad’s there. Sometimes you’re gone because you’re speaking somewhere. But when you’re in town, you’re there. And that’s a discipline. And your kids see that and your grandchildren see that. And so you’re giving them a great model. And why should we go to church? The Bible says, don’t forsake the assembling of yourselves together as the manner of some is, but exhort one another.

And that means encourage, stimulate, motivate and correct. Exhort one another daily. And so much more as we see the day of the Lord approaching. So it is really important because I do believe Jesus could come back at any time and we should be encouraging one another. And I would even take it to another level. Don’t just come to church on Sunday morning. Get involved in a small group. We have small groups in our church and we are going through the Bible. And I know it is so meaningful for these kids, or not kids. People of all ages say, everyone’s a kid to me now at 72.

Right, but. But you’re older than me, Michael. I know, I know, but a very well preserved 74. You know, I gotta say, there’s one thing. At one time I was the youngest, involved in everything. Now I’m the oldest. I know. Same for me. Better than the alternative, right? We wouldn’t be here. That’s true. I guess it’s okay. Yeah, I was. Everyone I Knew was like 10 years older than me. Yeah, I was the young guy. And then one day, oh man, when did I become the old guy? I just accept it. But anyway, very important, you know, and you miss.

I’ve never felt like when I go to church, what a waste of time. And I could have stayed home and slept or. You always feel like that was time well spent. So I really encourage people out there to be a part of the church. And isn’t it interesting that the young people are giving us the model for that right now? Gen Z is saying, yeah, we want to go to church. And so, you know, it. Follow their example. Especially people our age, you know, and the generation next. All the others do. I think it’s so important, you know, one thing I wanted to talk about, and this is thanks to your encouragement, I’m writing a book.

And it’s about the manhood of Jesus. Jesus the only true man’s man. As a matter of fact, I’m finished. And now we’re going into the edit of it. And you encouraged me to do that because one of the messages that I’ve been given to young people is that, you know, my father always told me, from the time I was five years old, you have to be a man’s man. That’s the standard in life you have to live up to. And of course, on the street I heard that all the time. We’re men of honor. So when I came to Jesus, I kind of, I wanted to see what kind of man he was.

Because honestly, Greg, growing up Catholic, I always had this wimpy view of Jesus. He was hanging on the cross. They didn’t really speak about him, you know, as a man, Jesus of Nazareth too much, at least in my experience. So I separated his manhood from his deity and I just studied Jesus of Nazareth. And obviously the conclusion is there was no greater man that ever walked the face of the earth. So I’m reaching young people by making them understand that emulating Jesus is a win win situation number one. You’re going to benefit throughout your life emulating the greatest man that ever walked the first.

And this applies to women too, because we’re talking about character, you know, and, and then of course, when you die, he is the savior of the world. So you have all of heaven to, to gain. And one of the things that I tell them, it’s not about scaring people, it’s about being honest. When I was in the hole for all those months, years actually, I developed a healthy fear of hell. I just, it scared me thinking of hell as I was reading my Bible and understood that this is a real place, this is real. This is not to scare you God.

It is a real place and I don’t even want to go there. And then I’m saying, but is that what’s motivating my, my love of the Lord? But then obviously the Bible tells us, you know, fear of the Lord is the beginning of all wisdom. So maybe you can explain. It’s good for us to have a healthy fear of hell because it is a real place. And for those of us, I know this sounds hard on God’s part, but God has made it very clear, if we don’t accept his Son as our Savior. Right, then we’re not going to heaven.

No, we’re going somewhere else. Very true. And some people look at that as a mean God, an angry God. Well, you know, I look at, at it as a Just God, a righteous God. We always want God to be just and right unless it comes to justice for us. And the reality is, Jesus spoke more about hell than all the other preachers of the Bible put together. And maybe that’s because he’s seen it. You know, when you look at the Gospel of Luke and the story of the rich man and Lazarus and how the. The rich man and Lazarus, a beggar, both died on the same day and they went into the afterlife.

And one was in a place of torment, of fire, and he even said, send a drop of water to cool my tongue. The other went to a place, Lazarus, a place of comfort as it’s described by Jesus in the bosom of Abraham. This is real. And the last thing God wants is for any man or woman made in his image to spend eternity in hell. Hell was not made for people. Hell was made, according to Jesus, for the devil and his angels. But if I reject Christ, if I reject his offer of forgiveness, if I live in rebellion against him and break his commandments left and right and have to practically climb over Jesus to there, if I am bound and determined, yes, I will end up in hell.

That is not God’s desire. The Bible says God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. He does not want us to go to hell. That is why Jesus died on the cross and absorbed the wrath of God on our place, so we don’t have to face it. But you know, God is not going to force anyone to go to heaven. If they don’t want to go to heaven, then God will let them have what they want in this life and the afterlife. So I would say hell is real. To have a healthy fear of it is a good thing.

The Bible even says some people saved by fear, hating even the garment that is affected by the flesh. So the idea of it is, you know, some people need the hell scared out of them. And like, they think, oh, yeah, well, whatever. I don’t care about Jesus. Okay, Just, you know, FYI, if you reject his offer of forgiveness, you can spend eternity facing judgment in hell. You need to know that. So the Bible says, whoever is not found written in the book of life is cast into the lake of fire. You have to have your name on the list.

A while ago I was invited to a little worship event at the White House, and I was going to do a prayer. And so I showed up and you have to go through security. And they said, your name’s not on the list. I said, no, no, I’m on the list. I’m Texting them right now. See, I need to be in there. No, your name is not on the list. And I realized what I had done was I failed to fill the form out completely. I only filled it up partially. Thankfully, I was able to get the form completed and get in, but my name wasn’t on the list and I wasn’t going in.

It didn’t matter what I said. And if your name is not in God’s name list, you’re not getting any of it. How do you get on God’s list? You believe in Jesus Christ, who purchased your salvation. You repent and turn from your sin and ask him to forgive you, and then you’re on God’s list and then you can go to heaven. But if you say, I don’t want God’s list, I don’t want forgiveness, I don’t want Jesus, you are charting your own course and you are responsible for where it leads you. Very well said. And Greg, I got to ask you this because this is a question that was always in my mind and people’s minds.

Can you ever lose your salvation? Well, I would say the basic answer to that is no. But I would say that I think there are people that may think they’re saved that aren’t saved. So you say, what do you say to a person who maybe was coming to church and they were talking about their faith a lot and they walked away from Christ and now they are living in overt sin. Did that person lose their salvation? My question is, did they have salvation to begin with? Because look, Christians are going to sin. The Bible says if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

So I am not saying that we will be sinless if we become Christians. Maybe we can say, you will sin less, but you won’t be sinless. So having said that, I think there are people that maybe make a profession of faith, but it doesn’t stand the test of time. The real test is if you stay with it. John loose paraphrase of what he says in his epistle. They went up from us, but they didn’t continue with us, which showed they were never really of us to begin with. So, you know, you have got to maintain. And having said that, you can even have a prodigal run like my own son Christopher.

You know, he spent a good nine years away from the Lord. He still believed, but he was partying, doing stupid things, and not walking with God. And we never stopped loving him and we never stopped praying for Him. And then he came back to the Lord again, and then he got married, and then he had his first child. And then, sadly for us, he went to be with the Lord. But we’re so thankful he did that. And so you can even go prodigal. But if you’re a real child of God, you’ll always come back. And if you walk away and you don’t come back, my suggestion is not that you lost your salvation, but that you never had it to begin with.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Well, let me ask you this. For the last 50 years plus years, you’ve been bringing people to the Lord, preaching the gospel in the entirety of your ministry, which includes the movie Jesus Revolution and reached millions of people. You know, that was one of the first. Aside from Mel Gibson’s film the Passion of the Christ, that was one of the real, first breakout Christian films that had such a wide impact, appropriately named Jesus Revolution. And I think it had a lot to do with the Jesus Revolution that I think we’re experiencing watching now.

So that’s been the last 50 years, the entirety of your ministry. What do you got planned for the next 50? Let’s see, 50 years from now, I’d be 122. I would be like, okay, where’s my prune juice? And can I sit in the garden today? No, I’m kidding. Well, listen, with stem cells, you might get to that. That’s what they’re saying. Who knows? Well, I just got my hip replaced, and it went really well, really fast. Man, I wish I would have done it sooner. I quit it off for two years. You know, I just. To me, I love what I do.

I want to keep doing it as long as I can do it. I don’t think I will ever retire from preaching as long as I’m lucid and can put sentences together and get up and do what I do. I want to keep doing it, but I just plan on continuing to respond to opportunities that come my way. Because my goal is, you know, I’m closer to the end of my race now than the beginning, unless I make it to 120, in which case I have a long ways to go. But. So I want to finish this race well.

But, you know, there’s a lot of people I’ve gotten to know that modeled this for me. I mentioned Billy Graham. You know, Billy literally made it to 99. Pastor Chuck Smith made it to 87. Pastor Chuck Swindoll just turned 90. He’s going strong. So you see these other men of God, women of God, James Dobson just went to be with the Lord. I got to know him quite well. He’s a wonderful godly man. So I look at them and they’re a good model for me. Like, yeah, I just want to finish doing what I started for God’s glory and not mess it up, get across that finish line.

But, you know, see, every day is an opportunity to glorify God, and I think that that’s the best we can do. Well, Greg, I’ve watched you now for years, and you’ve had a tremendous impact on my life, my family, and so many other people that I know. And I know it’ll continue. And I’m really excited about what you’re doing in Utah on November 16th. And I’m going to be encouraging people to come if they can, physically. Although how many people can we fit in that are arena? Well, you know, I would say if you’re going to come, you know, on the day of the event, November 16, get there as early as you can.

I think the arena we’re in, I don’t know, the 8,000, the arena, this is the biggest thing we could find on short notice. We would have gone to something bigger, but then we’re looking at overflow venues. And I think when it’s all said and done, if everything works out, we’ll be able to accommodate 15,000. And beyond that, I would encourage people to, like, do watch parties, like watch at home, you know, download the Harvest plus app. It’s at the App Store. You can watch it on your big TV or whatever kind of TV you have. You can watch it in your tablet, your phone.

You could say to someone in the other side of the country, hey, watch this and let’s talk about it after it’s over with. You know, tell people that don’t know the Lord to watch it and so have a watch party. You could do a watch party in your church, talk to your pastor about it, or maybe there’s some pastors listening. Hey, show it at your church on Sunday afternoon. And so we’ll probably reach a lot more people online that have a real interest in what we’re doing in Utah, So we’ll accommodate as many as we can.

Yeah, and by the way, I want to mention to everybody all of these events, all the harvest crusades throughout the years, the last 30 years, they’re all free. Nothing is required of you, but to show up and to be open, you know, in heart and mind to, to receive the Lord. So I, I can tell you they’re great events and the entertainment that you have. You know, Christian music is becoming so mainstream now. It’s not even Christian anymore, just mainstream music. But people. And you have always the greatest lineup. And I know it’ll be the same.

Who’s coming on 16th? The who’s coming for the first time at a harvest crusade. The who. Who’s on first? Wait a second. Have you heard of the who? Do you know who they are? Yeah, Yeah, I know who they are. Now we don’t have the who. Remember that Abbott and Costello routine? Who’s on. Yes. No, no. We have Chris Tomlin and we have Phil Wickham. So they’re two of the very, very best. Yes. And they’re both wonderful guys. I’ve gotten to know them both very well. I’ve known Phil since he was a little kid. He came to his first harvest, should you say, when he was a little boy, his parents brought him.

His parents were both worship leaders. So, you know, it’s going to be amazing worship. And then I’ll just give a message on how to come into a relationship with God through Jesus Christ. And your message is always so motivating to see those people just flock to the field. And I know that you’ll have the same. The problem is, if you have 8,000 people there, you may have 8,000 people coming down to accept the Lord again, recommitting. Well, I would love a problem like that. Yeah, we’ll work it out. But, Greg, wonderful having you. And, you know, I appreciate our friendship so much, and all the things you’ve done for my family and the whole harvest ministry has done is just so well appreciated.

Really, my absolute pleasure. And thank you for having me here. All right, people. Well, there you have it, Pastor Greg. I mean, I needn’t say anything more. He’s just a wonderful guy. Wonderful man of God. Doesn’t only preach the gospel, but lives the gospel every single day. I love the man, love his family. So you heard it all. No need to repeat anything more. So I’m just going to leave you off right now. How do I always leave you? Same way. But make sure you join November 16th, this Sunday, and join us, because you’re going to have an amazing experience, I guarantee it.

And. And it’s an offer you shouldn’t refuse. How do I always leave you? Same way. Be safe, be healthy. God bless each and every one of you. Your family, friends, neighborhood, communities. God bless America. Yes, I’ll see you next time. I’ll see you this coming Sunday. Tune in, Satan.
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