Now, this does not make us evil, necessarily. This is simply a prerequisite for evil. Now, I think that that is the amoral basis. What makes amoral standing is then self-interest. Self-interest, coupled with indifference to the suffering of others, can create evil. Then you are willing to do terrible, terrible things to boost and bolster yourself. And I think that that is the state of a figure like Dick Cheney. I don’t think that he is blood-lusted. I think he legitimately does not care at all. And the indifference is really key. You know, when people feel evil is done to them, they think the other person or whatever is thinking about them, wanting them to suffer.

I don’t think that they care, generally. People do not care about much. Caring about oneself, or really caring about one’s interests, is what makes a moral agent. If you are self-interested and indifferent to suffering, then you are at a place where you can become bad. You can become evil, not just an amoral subject. If you are good, I think it is self-interest, coupled with the interest of others, with an interest and care for people that are suffering. So, you know, rather than killing 10,000 people to make a dollar, you would be willing to help those people, to see the potential in helping them to make money.

Something like that. Not that money, you know, confuses the whole matter, but ultimately indifference is the baseline. And if you are indifferent, you are amoral. [tr:trw].