➡ In this podcast, Tudor Dixon interviews Michael Franzese, a former mob boss from the 80s who was part of the Colombo crime family in New York City. After serving 10 years in prison, Franzese became a born-again Christian and left the mob. He shares his journey of leaving the mob, the challenges he faced, and how his faith helped him navigate through it all. He also talks about his life after the mob, his family, and his transformation due to his faith.
➡ The text is about a man who, after a life of crime and time in solitary confinement, found faith and transformed his life. He used to despise law enforcement due to his father’s criminal activities, but now counts them among his friends. Despite his past, he has found peace in his faith and looks forward to eternity. He also reflects on the damage his family’s criminal lifestyle caused, including the loss of his siblings and the bitterness of his mother.
➡ The speaker’s father was wrongfully convicted for a crime he didn’t commit, despite the speaker’s efforts to prove his innocence. The speaker was influenced by his father’s situation and the people around him to leave school and join the mafia, where he used his intelligence for planning and negotiation. He was part of the Colombo family, one of five independent mafia families in New York, and was involved in both legitimate and illegal businesses. Despite the constant stress and danger, the speaker adapted to this lifestyle.
➡ The speaker, a former mafia member, discusses his past and the current state of the mafia in the U.S. He also talks about his views on the government, comparing its operations to those of the mob. He criticizes the pardons issued by President Biden and suggests that the Biden family could have been indicted for racketeering. The speaker also expresses concern about the treatment of people involved in the January 6th incident and the use of government power against political enemies.
➡ The speaker, a former mob guy, is concerned about the state of the country and believes it needs to be straightened out. He has a YouTube platform where he shares his experiences and views, and also discusses current events. He is worried about the future of his children and grandchildren, and encourages others to be aware of what’s happening. He also promotes his wine brand, which symbolizes second chances and transformed lives.

Welcome to the Tudor Dixon Podcast. Well, I have to tell you, when I was running for office, I met a lot of guys in Detroit that I honestly said to myself, does the mob still exist? Is there really a mob? And I think when you grow up in the suburbs in the Midwest, you think like, these are all just fantasy stories. And you watch the Godfather and you think nothing was really ever like this. Well, apparently it is, and it was. And we have a. I don’t know if we call him a former mob boss. I guess that’s what we’d call you, Michael.

We’ve got Michael Franzese with us. He’s one of the most notorious mob bosses from the 80s, working as a captain in the Colombo crime family in New York City. Rudy Giuliani was after him, but he ended up serving 10 years in prison and became a born again Christian. Left the mob, walked away. How? How do you walk away from the mob, Michael? Well, thanks for having me, Tudor. You know, it’s not easy, I can tell you that. And I never really had, you know, there’s no blueprint for walking away from that life. Not entering a witness protection program and then going on to, you know, be blessed as I have and live a normal life, fairly normal, anyway.

But, you know, I was determined. You know, the problem. Tutor. I always call the mob life an evil life. And I want to be clear on this. I’m not calling the guys evil. I was one of them. I just happened to be very blessed. But I don’t know any family of any member of that life that hasn’t been totally devastated, including my own. Not my wife and kids, but my mother, father, brothers, sisters, it was just that they were all devastated. It ended badly for all of them. And when I met my current wife, now we’re going on 40 years, married this year, I said, I don’t want to do this to her.

You know, I have to make a choice. Because I was a big target. I had been indicted several times, and I had a big bullseye on my back. Was only a matter of time before they put me away for a long time. So I had to make a choice. It’s either the life or her. But I didn’t want to hurt anybody. I didn’t want to leave in that way. I wasn’t mad anybody. So it was really. It was a really tough line that I had to walk for several years. And I just, you know, I attribute my faith and God having a different plan and purpose for my life for allowing me to be where I am today.

So how did that happen? I mean, you were one of the most notorious mob bosses in New York City. You were listed, what, in Forbes or something as one of the top five mob bosses in the country, right? Well, it was Fortune magazine that wrote a huge story back in 86. They actually had a chart with was the 50 most wealthy and powerful mob bosses in the country. And I was actually number 18 on the list of 50. I was the youngest guy on the list. And yeah, I was one of the six that they wrote up in that story.

So, yeah, I mean, I had a. You know, I had a very high profile with them. I was arrested 18 times. I was indicted seven times. I had two federal racketeering cases, one state case. I went to trial five times. I was either acquitted or dismissed in every case. Very fortunate for that. So it was only a matter of time, you know, that they were coming after me. So I had devised a scheme, along with another fellow, my partner at the time, to defraud the government out of tax on every gallon of gasoline. It was a big scheme.

We were bringing down, honestly, eight, nine, $10 million a week in federal tax money and state tax money that we were defrauding the government from. And I took a plea on that case. I got a 10 year prison sentence. I had a $15 million restitution, 5 million in forfeitures. And it was. It was part of the plan to take that plea, marry my wife, who I had really only been with for a year at that time, move out to California. And after I did my time, I figured, you know, I had parole and probation. You can’t really meet with people during that time.

It’s a violation. And I thought after 10 or 12 years, the guys in New York would forget about me and I’d live out in California. It didn’t happen that way. It got kind of complicated. But again, without getting through the whole story, I was just able to navigate it. And you had a lot of tough moments. I had people mad at me on both sides. My father was a major figure in that life. He kind of disowned me for a while. We did patch it up again. We did get back together, but it was. But at a certain point, even your father has a hit out on you, right? Well, that’s what the government told me.

They came into the prison and they said it became public that I was walking away. I mean, a Life magazine did a big story on it. And they told me, we got word from our informants that you’re a dead man. May as well Cooperate with us. We’ll put you in the program. I didn’t want that. And they said, even your father went along with the hit. And I said, well, you know, let me worry about my dad. I said, you know, I don’t. I didn’t know if that was true or not. But, you know my father in some ways to protect himself, because they didn’t know what I was going to do.

They didn’t know if I was going to become a big informant, if I was going to testify against people. I could have hurt a lot of people. But that wasn’t my. It was never my plan. I didn’t want to do that. So it was tough. It was tough to navigate. But, you know, over period of time, what the FBI did to me, Tudor, was really bad. They were putting my name on the witness list of major trials that were going on in New York. So even though. Even though you weren’t a witness? Yeah, they were saying that I was going to testify.

And so even though I was telling my father, I was sending word back, don’t listen to this. It’s not true. Well, that’s what most informants say, and then they end up on the witness stand. But all these trials kept coming up and I never showed up. And then I had done five years and I was out on parole for 13 months. And the feds were really on me during that time. They ended up violating my parole, put me back in prison. So when I went back in prison, everybody on the street was saying, well, this guy’s not coming after anybody.

They put him back in prison. He never appeared in any of these trials. So things started to turn around a little bit for me. That was a several year process, and like I said, it just happened to work out. But I mean, what an interesting faith story, because here you are making between five and eight million dollars a week. You meet a woman, you fall in love, and she introduces you to Jesus. That’s a pretty big deal. Yeah, it was. I mean, you know, her and her mother were very strong Christians, and she was only 20 years old when I met her.

And I wasn’t really buying into it. I grew up Catholic, but I didn’t have a relationship with the Lord during that time. I just went to Catholic school and like that. But, you know, I saw the way she carried herself and her mom, and they were very serious about their faith. So I respected it, but I wasn’t buying into it. I still had that mentality, but over the. Over a period of time, you know, it really happened to Me, when I got violated and they put me back in prison. They put me in solitary that first night.

And Tudor, I can honestly say that was the worst night of my life because the government was very upset with me for not cooperating. They told me I was going to spend the rest of my life in prison. They were bringing new charges against me. I was only married a short time. We had two babies at home. I said, hey, I’m going to lose my wife. I’m going to lose my freedom. I’m going to spend the rest of my life in this, in solitary. They can’t put me on the yard. People are still upset with me.

I had visited my father for 20 years in prison. So I said, what kind of life is this? You know, I don’t want to let this, this young girl go through this. She’s probably going to leave me. It was all these things going through my head. And, you know, I used to say this. I used to demean people that were suicidal. I call them weak. How do you not face up to your troubles? Well, after that night, I never did that again because I wasn’t suicidal. But quite honestly, I just wanted to lay my head on that cot and not wake up.

It was just too painful to think of my future. I was only 39, 40 years old. And then a prison guard came by my cell and he looked in and he said, franzese, you don’t look good. Are you okay? And I chased him. I said, get away from me. I don’t want to see you guys tonight. And he came back and pushed the Bible through the slot on the door. And that was a turning point for me, I can tell you. I spent 29 months and seven days in solitary. It was just me and a six by eight.

Yeah. And it was during that time that, you know, I really dove into my Bible and, you know, I was on a search for the truth. I wasn’t accepting it right away because my attitude that night was, hey, you know what, God? I followed my father blindly into this life. I took a blood oath. I gave this life everything. And look where it got me. I said, I understand what my wife is telling me, my mother in law. I said, but you got to prove it to me. I have to see that this is real. And it was during that three years almost in solitary that I had my wife send me books in on every faith.

I was really in a search for the truth. And I came out of there believing with all my heart that the Bible was God’s word and that Jesus was My risen savior. And he’s only proved it to me further over the past 25 years, not only in my life, but what I’ve seen him do in other lives. So, you know, I say this all the time, too. I’m not the best Christian by far. There’s no question about that. But my faith is rock solid. Nobody can turn, Nobody can change my faith. It’s been too, too, too solid with me.

Yeah, there’s only one guy that’s the best Christian. Yes, you’re right. So I think we all fall into that category to one extent or another. But how much more freedom do you feel? I mean, here I think your story is so fascinating because you’re making more money than any of us can or most of us can even imagine. And yet you have to have this major freedom now that you couldn’t possibly have felt then. What’s it like to have Rudy Giuliani looking after you every step of the way, constantly worrying that you were either going to get killed or go to jail? Well, let me tell you the irony of that.

Right after this interview that we have, I’m sitting with Rudy Giuliani. That’s interesting. Yes. And I think we’re going to make history. It’s going to be the first time that a former mobster who was indicted by a prosecutor is going to be actually sitting down and interviewing that prosecutor. And I’m looking forward to it. You know, it was tough because, you know, I was constantly under investigation, and my father, it was the same. I mean, he was more high profile than I was. I grew up with law enforcement around us 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

So I grew up hating the police. I hated the government. I hated law enforcement because I loved my dad. And I always saw them as the enemies trying to. Trying to hurt my family. And I had many run ins with them as a, you know, as a kid. So, you know, to make this total opposite change and to have, you know, you know, I think we all know that God can transform a heart, but transforming a mind. This whole distorted sense of view I had growing up where, you know, good was bad and bad was good, God really had to do a number on me to fix that.

And today, some of my dearest friends are in law enforcement, you know, all across the country, because I understand, you know, they had a role, we had a role, and they were the good guys, we were the bad guys, and now I get it. But I couldn’t understand that before. So it’s been a real journey. It really has been for me. But, you know, I have a real piece about me because I really do believe in heaven and hell. I think it’s, you know, there’s no getting around that in scripture. And I believe in God’s word.

You know, if we sincerely repent our sins and we accept Christ and we’re going to be with him for all of eternity. And I have that to look forward to. And it’s given me a real peace in my life. Yeah, the Father in heaven. It’s a beautiful story, but it’s not a story. It’s a beautiful eternity. And you will go there. And that’s, that’s the beauty of him leaving the 99 and going after the 1. Because you were the one. Yes. And he went after you. How old were you when your dad went to jail? I was just turning 19.

Well, when he went to jail permanently prior to that, he was in and out because he was indicted several times. He was indicted on a big murder case and they held him for quite some time during that time. So I knew my dad is going in and out of prison. But then at 19, he received a 50 year prison sentence. And that when he, that’s when he started his sentence. And my dad did 40 years on that 50. He was paroled five times and violated his parole five times and kept going back, you know, and I don’t know if you know this tutor, but my, my father was released from prison in 2017 after doing his entire sentence with all the statutory good time.

He was 100 years old. He was the oldest inmate in the federal system at the time. So what was it like to see he was released at 100, correct? Yes. What was that like for him? What. I mean, at that point, I assume you’re completely out. Yeah, I was totally out of it at that point. And it was, you know, I mean, I tried to minister to my dad. You know, one of the, one of the guilts I carry around with me is that I don’t think I was effective enough. It was very hard for me for some reason.

And even though I had sent the chaplain in to see him and she spent three hours with him and she told me he accepted Christ during that time. Now, I didn’t see much evidence of that afterwards. But, you know, we judge people from the outside or we see their outside behavior. I didn’t, you know, I can’t judge his heart, but I’m hopeful that my dad did accept Christ. But we had, you know, we had some very difficult conversations during that time because he, he didn’t like the fact that I left the life, but he understood it.

And I said, dad, look at our family. You know, my mom, she died in 2012. She was 33 years without her husband at the end of her relationship. I can only describe it with my dad as being very ugly because she blamed him for everything that went wrong in her life, and rightfully so. And what went wrong? Well, my sister, 27 years old, died as of an overdose of drugs. My brother, 25 years, a drug addiction. I can’t even begin to tell you what the family went through, what I personally went through, just trying to keep him alive on the street because he was kind of a street kid.

My younger sister, 41, she died. She was never mentally stable, so the whole family was destroyed. So my mother was very bitter on that. And I said, dad, look what happened to our family. I said, I couldn’t marry this young girl and bring her into the same situation. I said, I hope you understand that. And he did. But his commitment to that life would never allow him to fully say, okay, you did the right thing. But I understood it. I knew my father, which is probably also why it’s very hard to come to him and show him Christ, because showing someone Christ is being vulnerable.

It’s hard to be vulnerable with someone who is like your dad. Yes, it really was. And, you know, unfortunately for my dad, his. He wanted his legacy to be that he died with his boots on. He would never go against the life. He was a standup guy all the way. That was his mentality. I didn’t want to take that from him because I knew how important it was for him, and that’s how he passed. You know, he would. He would never talk to the FBI. He did 50 years. And Tudor, he did 50 years for a crime he didn’t commit.

My dad was framed. I’ll take that to my grave. I was guilty of my crime. My dad did a lot of bad things in his life, don’t get me wrong. But that particular crime that he did all the time for, he was framed. He was innocent of. I actually investigated that case, spoke to every witness that testified against him. They recanted their testimony. We gave him lie detector tests, proved they lied at the trial. We can never get the conviction overturned. So I believe with all my heart that my dad was framed. And he wouldn’t talk to the FBI.

He said, no, this is my life. This is my life. And he did 40 years as a result of that. So, I mean, there’s a certain amount of respect I have for him maintaining that principle. But it was really, you know, it was really misled principle. And hopefully, like I said, he. Within his heart, he did accept Christ. I’m hopeful. But I thought at the beginning, he really didn’t want you to go into this life. Weren’t you pre med? Yeah, he didn’t want this life for me. He wanted me to be a doctor. You know, he was pushing me in that direction.

You know, I was an athlete in school. He didn’t want this life for me. He said, stun, stay off the street, get an education. That’s what it’s all about. The only time I made the decision, basically because when my dad went to prison, Joe Colombo, who was our boss, he kind of took me under his wing. I was very close to him. He was kind of my mentor. He had the Italian American Civil Rights League back then that I was very much a part of. I thought it was a way to help my dad. And I got influenced by a lot of the guys on the street that I was meeting at that time, and they were selling me mike.

You know, if you go to school and you don’t help your father, he’s going to die in prison. So I kind of had a little bit of guilt about it, and I went to see my dad in Leavenworth Penitentiary, and I said, dad, I’m not going to school. If I don’t help you out, you’re going to die in here. Because I looked at him, you know, my dad was indicted and convicted of masterminding a nationwide series of bank robberies. And, you know, it didn’t sit right with me because my dad didn’t have that principle. And all the witnesses that testified against him were drug addicts.

And my dad hated drugs. He hated anything to do with drugs. He would actually make up stories about drugs to scare me from never taking drugs. So I knew, I said it didn’t sit right that my dad would associate with these kind of people. When I said to him, dad, bank robbery. He looked at me, said, son, I’m innocent. I was framed on this case. He said, and we got to prove my innocence. So I believed him. Until this moment. I believe him, and that’s what influenced me. And so we were in the penitentiary in Leavenworth, and I said, I’m not going to school.

He argued with me a little bit, but I was a headstrong kid. And he said, okay, but if you’re going to be on the street, I want you on the street the right way. And that’s when he proposed me for membership into the Light. So you were not exactly what we see in the movies as a traditional New York City mobster. You were really the mastermind behind a lot of this. You were the smart guy that was planning, and it wasn’t so much violence that you were using, but intelligence, scheming and negotiation, I would say. I mean, that’s what I’ve read about.

Well, you know, let’s put it this way. You know, you’re in the life. I’m not going to absolve myself. You know, you. You’re in a situation where you have to do certain things if you’re going to be in that life. So I want to make that clear. However, you know, I was. I was fortunate. I knew how to use that life to benefit me in business, and I had a head for business. So I kind of brought some new things. The family, like this whole, you know, gas scheme was. It was very complicated. We put it together.

So, yeah, I mean, I was more looked at as a racketeer, you know, one of the guys that were bringing money into the family. You know, in our. In our. In the Colombo family, we had about 215 maid guys, guys that actually took the oath. We had a lot of associates, but these were guys that actually took the oath. Out of the 200. I’m sorry, 115 out of the 115, maybe 20 of us were real earners. The rest of the guys were just street guys trying to grind out a living doing this and that and that.

So, you know, you had maybe 20 guys supporting the whole family. So they kind of, you know, they want you to continue bringing money into the family because like any other organization, without money, you don’t. You don’t exist. So act like I’m a complete idiot. The family is like multiple families together. You’re all bringing money in and supporting it. Like, how does. What is the behind the scenes of how this actually works? Because I think it’s like one family, but it’s actually multiple families. Right. That are working together. Well, in New York, you had five separate families.

You know, they all. And each family had their own boss and their own hierarchy, their own leadership and their own guys. So you don’t operate together. I mean, there are times when you work together on certain things, but each family is independent, so they don’t. It’s not like you work together to make money together, even though that. But like, the people who are part of the Colombo Mafia. Were you related to everybody? No. No. So you’re all Just in. In a family doesn’t necessarily mean you’re related. Correct. It’s just called a family. And there is a lot of nepotism in that life.

A lot of fathers bring their sons in and their, you know, nephews because it’s a security deal. You feel if you’re bringing your family in, you know, they’re never going to turn against you. So there’s a lot of nepotism in that life. But you operate independently. Now, there were times when we worked with the other families, obviously, because in, you know, you’re practically falling over one another because, you know, you’re all there in the same territories. New York City, Brooklyn, Long island, you know, New Jersey. But you’re an independent family. So each family had to take care of itself.

So you had guys in the family that, you know, brought the money in, and you had other guys that did some of the other work, you know, and that’s how it went. So there. And there were legitimate businesses, and then there were not so legitimate businesses. Yeah, I mean, I had two automobile dealerships that I owned. I had a leasing company. I was involved in a couple of restaurants and things like that. So you had both? I had a film company back then. It was legitimate. And then you had your illegal things. You know, me, it was the whole gas tax scam.

I was lending money to people on the street, you know, charging them interest rates. I had some bookmakers that were collecting, you know, that were in the bookmaking business with gambling, and they worked under me. So you have both. So, I mean, how do you. How do you. You said the worst night in your life was the night in prison, in solitary. But I feel like you would be constantly looking over your shoulder. Isn’t this life so hard? You know, it is. You know, I can give you an example. I. I once, a couple years ago, I went to the doctor because I had something where your beard starts to, you know, you lose little spots of it.

I forget what it’s called. It’s a condition. It’s temporary. But when I went to the doctor, he said to me, normally this is caused by stress. Do you have stress? And I said, doc, I don’t know. I said, I lived a certain way my whole life. I said, I’ve always had, you know, without getting into detail, I said, I don’t know what stress really is. And so when you’re conditioned for it, like when you know that everybody you speak to could be a government informant, every place you go, every telephone you pick up could be, you know, bugged every room you’re sitting in might have a bug in the room.

You just. You just adapt, and you live that way. So you’re always thinking about it. Now, of course, I don’t feel the same way now. My wife sometimes tells me, you know, you’ve. You know, you talk to people sometimes. You don’t know who they are. And she said, how do you talk about this now? How is this okay? Aren’t you still worried? No. You know, listen, the bottom line, Tudor, I did speak to the government, you know, because I tried to make friends with them, but I never put anybody in prison. I never went to that extent.

I actually, you know, was playing a little game with the government where making them think I was going to cooperate, but then I wouldn’t, and that’s why they threw me back in prison. They knew that I was basically pulling a scam on the government, too, just trying to make my life smooth out because I didn’t know exactly how to do this. So I never put anybody in prison. And, Tudor, listen to this. This is the truth on that Fortune magazine article, right? There was 50 of us in the article. It was written in 1986. 48 of them are dead.

Number 49 is still in prison. I’m the only one alive and free. The night that I took an oath, I took the oath. Halloween night, 1975. There were six of us that night. I’m the only one alive today. They’re all gone. I just outlasted everybody. And all these new guys, they don’t have it in for me. I mean, you know, I never did anything to them and never bothered them. Now I can’t go back to Brooklyn, say, hey, guys, I’m moving back into the neighborhood. You know, I mean, that wouldn’t be smart. It would be like I’m thumbing my nose in their face.

But, you know, I always say, God doesn’t tell you to be stupid. You have to use your head, you know? So I don’t. I don’t put myself in positions like that. So this. So there is still a faction of the mafia that exists? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. It’s not going to go away in my lifetime. It’s not nearly what it was during my lifetime, during my era in that life. But it’s not going away. There’s no question. So would you say that that’s mostly in New York, or is this something that we just don’t know? I mean, I ask because I’ve met with people while I was campaigning, and I was like, man, this really Feels like a movie.

Is it? Are there other areas where we might not know that this exists? Yeah, I mean, look, you still have a presence in Chicago, certainly in New York, for sure. New Jersey, Detroit. Yes, there’s still a presence there. Philadelphia, places like that. But it’s. You know, I always say the golden era of the Mafia cousin Austria in this country was really from the mid-40s, late-40s, right into the mid-80s, when Giuliani really took control and used the RICO act very effectively. And that was the. That led to the real downfall of the mob as we knew it back then.

Not the same. They took a lot of the union control away from us. You know, when you control the unions in this country, you control the country to a large degree. You really do. And we had control of all the labor unions, the teamster unions, and we lost all of that. It’s not the same. And so they. And you have to credit Giuliani for this. You really do, because he used that RICO act very effectively, and that kind of spread nationwide and really hurt a lot of the families. I mean, honestly, from a political standpoint, that’s kind of how we feel about the Democrats, if you control the unions.

But it’s. They take. You know, there’s a lot of money that goes through there, and it gets funneled into these campaigns. And it’s kind of shocking when you see the unions have a massive amount of power. And I’m not saying that the guys in the unions are using that to their advantage, but I think there are deals made with some of these politicians behind the scenes. And it’s been kind of shocking to see, I mean, the private unions and the public unions, like, we pay our taxpayer money, and that goes right into getting somebody into power.

That’s right. You know, Tudor, I wrote a book called Mafia Democracy. And the way I watched the government operate over the past several years, especially, I’m saying in this past administration, I mean, they operate like the mob. I mean, I have to say that. And, you know, the book is very credible. I didn’t put any fluff or anything there. As a matter of fact, Rudy Giuliani wrote the forward to it, so he, you know, he, you know, he kind of endorsed it. But it’s really sad, you know, the corruption that I’ve seen over the past four years.

And I’m just so glad that part of it is over and we have a new president that I think is really determined to straighten this country out. And I’m excited about that, and I’m certainly supportive of it. I mean, obviously, I’m excited about that, too. I feel like this has been the best last 10 days of the country in years. I saw people running through the streets of Washington, D.C. carrying Trump flags, and I was like, the country’s changed. This couldn’t have happened four years ago. If somebody went through the Streets of Washington, D.C. carrying a flag that said Trump, they’d, They’d, Gosh, they’d take them down.

The police would take them down. So. And I do think that the police were weaponized against the people. Biden, before, before I let you go, just, I want to get your opinion on this, because obviously, you’re someone who spent time in prison, you, your dad, and spent the last years of his life in prison. Biden had some unusual pardons of some pretty bad guys. What’s your opinion of that, being a guy who spent his sum of his life in prison yourself? Well, Tudor, I’m going to tell you this, and you know, I have no, I have no political bias.

I just want the best people in the best positions to do the best for the country. But I will tell you this. From the information that I’ve seen that was uncovered by the GOP investigation, you know, between the laptop, between the emails, between the whistleblowers, the text messages and all the information on the laptop, there’s no doubt in my mind, and I’m an expert on this, because I’ve had three racketeering indictments. There’s no doubt in my mind that Joe Biden could have been indicted along with his family for racketeering. Whether he got convicted, that’s another story.

But that’s a racketeering indictment without a doubt. And, you know, for him to preemptively pardon his family going back 10 years, I mean, if that’s not an admission of guilt, I don’t know what is. Why did you have to do that? You know, it’s just terrible. And, you know, I have said this, and, you know, people are worried about Trump taking revenge on people. What they did to him in this lawfare and the media being so complicit in covering up all these things that we saw. I mean, it’s not a question of revenge. It’s a question of justice and accountability.

Such horrible things have gone on in these past four years between the border and everything else. If you don’t hold people accountable to this, when is it going to stop? And I believe that the Justice Department and the FBI need to investigate and hold these people accountable. Yesterday, I spoke to two people that were pardoned for the January 6th deal, and I’m going to post it next week. What these people told me they were never arrested before in their life. One of them never even entered the Capitol building. The things he told me, I stood there and I said, how could this happen? It’s just terrible that you can target people that you’re political enemies and destroy their lives.

Basically destroy their lives. It has to stop. But, I mean, that’s what we’ve been saying for all this time. And I’m not an expert. I’m just watching from the outside going, gosh, how I can’t imagine my loved one being plucked off the street for going to a protest and spending four years in solitary confinement. Confinement. I mean, straining the water through a sock because the water is so filled with rust. The things that I’ve heard from these people that went to a protest, like you said, some of them not even in the building, just outside the building.

This. And when you say you’ve seen government, and I would say this has happened on both sides of the aisle, government being used like the Mafia, like an organization like this. Because, I mean, I just got a call today from a guy who says he got elected, and he’s not. He’s not one of the. The old Republicans. He’s what, you know, people consider a new Republican, like a MAGA Republican. Right. And he had former elected officials and some of the, I would say wealthiest people in the state, call him afterward, refused to help him during his campaign, call him afterward and say, this is a time of peace.

Do you understand what we’re saying? Wow. Who does that? I mean, in the business world, people don’t do that. In the. In the regular world, like in the media world, people don’t call you and make a backhanded threat to you. People, I assume, do that to you in the world of the Mafia. But look, this is politics. Since when do you get a backhanded threat the minute you get elected from your own side? Wow, that scares me. Yeah, it should. I mean, it’s gotten to that point where, you know, I think. I mean, Trump has got such a massive job on his hands to straighten this country out, but I think he really has to focus on straightening out or draining the swamp, as he calls it.

I really think that that’s critical for this country. You know, I feel. And listen, I’m a street guy. I’ve seen everything you can imagine. So I look at things a little bit differently. I always have. You know, I’m always, you know, a little cautious when I. When I’m looking at people, if we would have had another four years of this administration, this country would. Was finished. There’s no question was finished. It was done. There was so much dishonesty, you know, and again, from a former mob guy, I’m. I’m looking at people and saying dishonest. I knew what dishonesty was all about, but it’s glaring.

It’s right in front of you. And you know what? I. I cannot believe how people could be so. We on the street tried to hide things, you know, we didn’t try to, you know, be so out in the open about what we did. But they lie on camera, there’s video. I just can’t understand it. I don’t know how a man can conduct himself like that and just be so outrageous in their lies and the deception and think that it’s okay. They feel like they’re just above everything, because when you’re the government, who’s coming for you, that’s how they feel.

We are the government. You can’t take us down. I mean, it’s really twisted. And I’ve. I’ve so enjoyed talking to you. You have a YouTube show. This is where you’re talking to Rudy? Yes. Yes. Okay, so tell us how to find it. Well, it’s on YouTube. It’s just ichaelfrancis. And I have a big platform there, and I’m all over social media and I’m very easy to find, but YouTube is the main platform. And so we’re, you know, I started the platform really by talking about mob stories and, you know, all my experiences, but after a while, you run out of stories.

You know, I’m not going to make them up. So I’m, you know, I’ve never been so invested in politics as I have been in the past, you know, 10 or 12 years, when, you know, when you have. I mean, I have seven children, I have seven grandchildren. And you worry about their future. Yes. So, you know, this is what got me so invested, because before that, you know, I didn’t really care about it too much, but I’m worried about my kids and my grandkids, so I got really invested in it. So now my platform, I’ve had a lot of great interviews with people, and, you know, my whole thing is just making people aware of really what’s going on from my perspective now, I do tell some, you know, I like, if you notice this canvas behind me, there’s the 50 mob bosses.

So I’m doing a documentary style on every one of Them. And people love it. I mean, they love to hear it from my perspective. So we give them a lot of the mob stuff. But I also deal with current events and things like that. And, you know, I would love to have you on at some point because you have a fascinating story also. Really? Are you going to run for politics anymore? I’m looking at it for sure. I’m not saying I’m done, that’s for sure. Because, I mean, when I talk to people like you and I hear about, and I talk to the gentleman I spoke to earlier who got that backhanded threat, I think about the importance of exactly what you’re doing, fighting back, exactly what Trump’s doing.

Come on, let’s take this country back. This country was a country for the people. The idea that we have these oligarchs, these billionaires that come in and think they can control, I mean, it’s funny, because what you’re saying on our side, on the Republican side, I do think that you have a certain group of families that they say that the politicians are the chess pieces for the rich. And on the other side, it’s also billionaires and unions, and you, you just become a chess piece. But Trump was the one guy that came out and said, I’m no one’s chess piece and anyone, because the people were with him.

And that’s why I think it has to go back to people who are going to say, I’m not going to be a chess piece for the rich. Well, no, Tudor, absolutely. I followed you on fox. I’ve watched you many times. And so I’m a supporter. And I wish you would throw your hat back into the ring because we need people to be honest and we need people. You know, you’re very credible, and we need, we need people like you in there. I mean, I can never run for office. You know, my platform is just to make people aware of what’s going on and hopefully they listen.

And so for me, it’s about providing information and perspective. But, you know, for you, it’s leadership, and you have credibility, and I really hope that you do pursue it really well. Thank you. Thank you. I’m in the midst of talking to advisors, so I appreciate you being one of them right now. Thank you. Well, yeah, and Joe is very supportive of you also, so he. I think he would like to see that happen again, too. Well, I love. I love Joe and his family, and I’m so glad he connected us. Michael Franzese, thank you so much for coming on.

I’m so. I’ve so enjoyed. This was an unusual podcast because we don’t generally get to talk about things like this, and I’ve loved every minute of it. Well, I appreciate that. And, you know, I’ll be visiting Joe, too. I think he wants me to come down the amo in a couple of months, so maybe we can get together and have dinner. I’d love for you to meet my wife, and it would be nice. That would be fantastic. Let’s plan on that. I will be in touch. We’ll definitely do that. Excellent. Thank you very much. Thank you.

And thank you all. I have a question for all my friends and followers. Have you tried my wine yet? You know, in the last two years, we’ve made tremendous progress with Franz east wine, and it’s really all thanks to your support and obviously because people are familiar finding out we have a great wine at a great price. In 2025, we aim to become a national brand, and I want all of you to be a part of it. Every bottle you buy, every story you share builds more than a brand. It fuels a movement. The story of our wine is one of people having second chances and of lives being transformed.

That’s the truth. So go to my website, franzisswine.com and get your bottle today. Salute, my friend.
[tr:tra].