Undercover FBI Agent Who Infiltrated Neo-N*zis Biker Gangs and The Cartel

➡ Scott Payne, a former FBI undercover agent, shares his experiences from his 28-year career. He was involved in various operations, including one where he stopped a murder-for-hire plot by a man who had molested a child. Payne explains that he used his own personality and skills to blend into different groups while undercover, rather than trying to completely transform into a different person. He also reveals that he had a desire to work undercover even before joining the FBI, having previously been a uniform patrol officer and vice narcotics investigator.
➡ The text is about the experiences of an undercover FBI agent. He talks about the rigorous training and certification process, which includes psychological evaluations and a two-week intensive course. He also discusses the challenges and dangers of going undercover, such as maintaining a false persona and dealing with potential threats. Despite these difficulties, he believes undercover operations are crucial for law enforcement, providing overwhelming evidence in cases. He also shares how he learned from his experiences and mistakes, and used these lessons to improve his undercover techniques.
➡ The speaker, who is undercover, shares his experience infiltrating a gang involved in drug trafficking and car theft. He gains their trust by pretending to be a high-ranking member of an international theft ring, helping them sell stolen cars. After a year and a half, the gang starts to suspect him, leading to a tense situation where he is stripped and searched for a wire. Despite the danger, he manages to convince them of his loyalty and continues his undercover work.
➡ The speaker recounts his experiences as an undercover agent, detailing tense moments where his cover could have been blown. He also discusses the challenges and risks of his job, including the mental and physical toll it took on him. He mentions a case where he helped prevent a plot to attack a synagogue. Additionally, he promotes his wine brand, Franz east wine, and its mission to give people second chances.
➡ A man named Benji, who was already a felon, was planning a violent act against a synagogue, inspired by the mass shooter Dylann Roof. He was introduced to an undercover agent who he believed could supply him with weapons. The agent managed to arrest Benji when he asked for a gun, preventing his violent plan. The agent also shared his experiences infiltrating various groups, highlighting the dangerous ideologies of white supremacist groups who aim to cause societal collapse.
➡ The text discusses the threats posed by extremist groups and the widespread issue of human trafficking. It highlights the disturbing activities of these groups, including violence, extortion, and child exploitation. The speaker also mentions the efforts of law enforcement agencies, particularly the FBI, in combating these issues and the challenges they face. The text ends with a call for continued vigilance and action against these threats.
➡ The speaker discusses the challenges of border control, emphasizing the importance of human intelligence in identifying potential threats. They express concern about open borders and the potential for illegal activities, while acknowledging the humanitarian crisis faced by many immigrants. The speaker also highlights the need for proper legislation to manage immigration and the importance of law enforcement in maintaining order. They conclude by expressing hope for improvements in the FBI and Department of Justice.
➡ The author discusses his book, “Pale Horse,” which details his undercover experiences exposing various criminal activities, including neo-Nazis, biker gangs, and human trafficking. He shares the dangers he faced, such as nearly being discovered while undercover, and the impact of his work. The author also emphasizes the importance of law enforcement in maintaining safety and combating horrific crimes like child abuse. He encourages readers to get his book to understand the realities of these issues and the crucial role of the police.

You know, I talked to him about some of his techniques. Obviously, he can’t give everything away, but he can talk about some of it. But it was a great interview, and I’m anxious to share it with all of you. Very, very enlightening interview. I know you’re going to enjoy it. With no further delay, my special guest, Scott Payne. Scott, Really a pleasure to have you on. You know, when I look at your career, 28. 28 years as an FBI undercover agent, but the undercover operations that you were involved in were so varied and so different, and I think they.

They named you the Hillbilly Donnie Brasco. Is that correct? Somebody did, yes. And I. And I had to let Joe, my mentor and friend, know. I said, hey, boss man, just know that I never said anything like that. I would never, ever try to even impose on that title. And I said, but if they named it, I said, I can’t stop them, and I’m going to try to do it justice. And he text me back the cool. He. The cool emoji face and said, I like it. And I’m like, all right, if you say it’s okay, then it’s okay.

Yeah, well, if that’s. If you get an okay from him, that’s good. I know Joe well, and I really have a lot of admiration for the guy. You know, to know what he did for six years to walking into, you know, what possibly could have been a trap every day. And I’m sure you can relate to that. Was. Was. He’s a good guy. Really good guy. I really like. Yep. Awesome. All right, so let me. Let me ask you this, because you were in such, you know, such different operations, all the things that you got involved in.

Let me ask you before we go through them, and I will have named some of them in the intro. What does anything really stand out as the most satisfying, you know, undercover operation where you stop something horrible from happening? What would be your number one? If you can say there is a number one. Well, I mean, on the scale of things, if you stop a bunch of murders, that’s. That’s really good. If you stop extremists, that’s really good. But jumping out at me, one of the most satisfying ones I did was very quick. It was just a murder for hire.

It was a guy who had molested a kid, and he knew he wasn’t going to do good in jail, and he solicited somebody in jail to find somebody that could kill the kid, and they brought me in for that. So it was. I mean, it’s probably two meets, but it was set up. I went in and the guy was in jail. I went into the phone bank with all the angry family members and crying and screaming with all the stainless steel echo. And I’m trying to get a recording. But, yeah, he hired me to kill the kid that he was accused of molesting because in his mind, his plan was, is if the kid was dead, that there wouldn’t be a trial, which on a scale of some of the murder for our plots, I’ve.

I’ve either ran as a case agent or worked as an undercover. It wasn’t a bad plan. But then while I’m meeting him, he wanted. He. He said he wanted the rest of the family killed. And they were up in Wisconsin. And I was like, dude, slow down. You know, let’s. Let’s deal with one thing at a time. You know, Scott, I’ve obviously been on the street for over 20 years. I’ve met some, you know, some people that would do some horrible things. But how do you explain somebody like that, that wants to kill a child and.

And kill the kid’s family? I mean, what kind of, what kind of human being is that? It’s something just so different, so foreign, I think, for normal people to even understand or comprehend. Yeah, you know, I think he was really doing that more out of fear because he knew. He. I mean, you. You know, the streets and the system, there’s. I mean, prison is very. It’s animalistic, it’s the jungle, but it’s. It’s got a lot of simple rules. And, and there’s a reason that even your stone cold murders and, and criminals do not like pedophiles. They usually don’t do well in prison.

And I think he knew that. What I didn’t know is I just got called from some case agents that knew me. I was down in McAllen, Texas. They were in San Antonio. They called me and said, hey, can you do this? I’m like, yeah, I’m on my way kind of thing. And I went up and it was just two meets with a guy. But because a lot of times a murder for hire charge will go on the state level. It was the county that ended up the state that ended up charging this guy. And what I found out is after they approached him, after we got the recordings and the money and all that stuff, they.

They hit him with it. And he pled guilty. He pled guilty to molesting the kid. He pled guilty to hiring me to kill the kid. And what I didn’t know is that that that guy had walked on like three or four prior cases that that same solicitor’s office had against him. Because as I found out, it’s usually the moles are usually pretty hard because it’s usually way after the fact and it’s an adult on the stand versus a kid. And that kid’s probably from a broken home. And it’s just that, that, that’s a tough part. But yeah, it was, it was pretty amazing that, that we were able to get him.

And he had walked on three or four cases prior to that. Gosh. And Scott, let me ask you, what kind of mentality do you have to have, you know, to be able to go undercover like this and blend into the various groups that you, you know, you had to infiltrate? I mean, what’s, what was your mentality going in really? I just use my skill set. It’s kind of the way I was trained. But even now, after the fact of being retired and being around like acting classes and, and you know, master acting or coaching, where you’re going to go do a read to try to get apart, it’s kind of the same thing.

It’s like, look, don’t go in there and read the, read the scene as Joe Pesci. You know, don’t read it in that accent. That’s not me. Read it as me. I mean, if it’s caused for me to be angry, then, then be angry, but be angry in my voice, not Joe Pesci’s. And that’s kind of. Once I saw that I was like telling my daughter, I was like, man, this is a lot like undercover because I stuck close to what I was. Now if I’m a murderer for hire, if you’re hiring me to murder somebody, then I’m not going to be my normal jovial self.

I’m not going to be cracking jokes and really bonding with you and connecting with you per se, because I’m supposed to be a stone cold killer. Why am I making friends with you? It’s a one and done, you know, a couple of meets. But for the most part, on these deep undercover long term ones that I did, I’m still me. I may or may not be married. I may or may not have kids. I may or may not have played college ball, be a musician and a singer, but I lift weights and I ride motorcycles. You know, I’m all tatted up and that’s just me.

That’s what I stuck close to. Let me add. When you first went into the FBI, did you go in there with the idea of going undercover and infiltrating these various groups, or was that just an assignment you got once you got in? I came in wanting to do it because I was already a real cop before. I was a uniform patrol in Greenville county sheriff’s office of South Carolina. And after three years in uniform, I made vice narcotics investigator. And once I was doing that, I went to the South Carolina criminal justice academy and got certified in the state class for undercover techniques.

So that’s when I started doing, like, just, I mean, fast street buys. But still, you know, I’m a single guy. I’m going out. If I met somebody at a bar, I wouldn’t tell him my last name was Payne, because I didn’t know if the girl I was meeting would turn out to be a target the next week. So I would just say I was Scott Anderson, and I worked at a landscaping company, and I kind of had my own backstopping. Like, if somebody called that landscaping company and they asked for Scott Anderson, they would say, yeah, he works here, but he’s out on a job and kind of get the information.

But I always thought because we were only doing undercover at that time, in the mid-90s, we were only really doing undercover in the county. So there’s only so many ways I can grow my facial hair, cut my hair, change my clothes, change vehicles. I’m in Greenville county, I’m showing up at court, and before long, a lot of people are going to know you’re a narc. And I always thought, man, wouldn’t it be pretty cool if they had some kind of database where they had a list of everybody that got certified through the state? And then maybe Charleston county or Myrtle beach needs somebody that fits my Persona that can come in for a week and make buys in a biker bar or something like that.

Well, when I got to the FBI, you know, of course, I’d already seen movies, whether they’re super realistic or not. I mean, I’d already seen Donnie Brasco. I loved any undercover movie there. There was. Or undercover book. It could be cheesy as you know what? I’d still love it. So I had that bug. And when I got in the FBI, I kind of started learning about their program and what it would take to become an undercover. And. And that’s kind of what they do. I mean, you get certified, and you can travel all over the country in the world.

Is. Let me ask you, is there any. Any kind of psychological training that you got, you know, when you decide to go undercover? Yeah, I Mean our. Our. I can speak specifically for the FBI. I’ve got friends in DEA over the years or atf. From my knowledge, as they get their training in the academy, if they want to work undercover, they can. If they don’t, they don’t. The FBI has a certification process, and it’s pretty lengthy and strenuous. It’s. It’s once. If you get. If you finally get a slot in the school, there’s only 20 slots.

And there was there at the end, we might only run one school a year. So to get it, One of those 20 slots is hard in itself. And you have to go through psychological evaluations before you even get a slot in the school. And then if you get that slot, it’s a two week school. A two week school with no days off, very big on sleep deprivation. The scenarios get amped up every day. You learn more every day. And you have to apply that as you keep going. And if you’re lucky enough or blessed enough and you’ll graduate and you’ll be a certified undercover.

But it doesn’t stop there. You’re still. I mean, I’ve made so many mistakes in my career, but I try to learn from them. And I mean, we have a psychological unit safeguard that Joe Postone helped create. It was him and Steve Band that helped get that whole baby rolling. And the whole purpose of that unit is to psychologically assess deep undercovers or active undercovers, um, and make sure you’re okay, your family’s okay. And. And, you know, if you’re a type A personality, you got a warrior spirit or whatever, you don’t want to stop no matter what.

And you need that oversight. Whether we want it or not and whether we get mad, you need that oversight. Because I’ve been. It’s called dnr. Do not recommend. I think I was at least twice in my career, they’re like, yep, you’re done. Not doing undercover for a minimum of six months. It’s time to go home and reevaluate. Let me ask you, would you say that the undercover operations are, you know, vital, one of the most effective operations that law enforcement could undertake? Absolutely. There’s a lot of dangers that come with it, and some people don’t like them because they’re afraid of those dangers.

But in the FBI, the undercover technique is considered a sophisticated investigative technique. In other words, we can’t just go out there willy nilly and start doing stuff. It is very intrusive, and it’s right up there on the same credit or whatever level as Doing a wiretap, because a wiretaps very. Is very intrusive, invasive as well. And just like a wiretap on an undercover, you have to show that we’ve exhausted our means of normal investigative techniques. Like, we’ve tried surveillance. We’ve tried to do this. We can’t get it. We don’t have sources. We can’t get in there.

But I will say that if the undercover is done correctly, the evidence is so overwhelming, the only thing the defense can do is either claim entrapment, which you should be able to squash that pretty quick. They can claim entrapment, or they try to make me as the undercover, whoever’s up there on the stand, look like a piece of trash. That’s about the only thing to do because it’s all right there on. On recordings and video. Right. Let me ask you this, because obviously I saw Donnie Brasco. I met Joe Pistone once on the street. Fortunately, only once when he came to visit me at a automobile agency.

And he was with another guy that I knew. But, you know, when you watch the movie, you see that Joe, you know, he took that Persona home. Yeah. And he was actually the mob guy when he went home. Did the same thing happen to you when you were with these biker groups or anything like that? It did, but. But I’ve also learned from guys like Joe. And I go in great detail in my book about a time where I crashed mentally, physically. I was done. I got put on timeout. I did way too much. It was guys like Joe that called me and said, hey, Country, Big country, whatever.

I mean, my nickname was Big country, but like, hey, country, or how you doing? And I’d be like, boss man, I’m. I’m doing better. And they would say, look, as soon as you can get, take care of yourself, take care of your family, but as soon as you can put pen to paper about what you’ve learned and. And what mistakes you see and, And. And how not to do that, because that’s how you pay it forward. That’s how you keep others from having those mistakes. And that’s how we. We train for better. So I’ve learned from.

I mean, Joe was at my class when I got certified in 2002, so I learned from that. But did I still make mistakes? Yeah, yeah. I mean, people were saying, one of the case agents, he’s a task force officer on the Outlaws case. He. He speaks and he’s like, yeah. I could see Scott turning. He was getting more and more violent, like, more short tempered. Like, I’M just going to smash that dude. Because I’m around violence all the time as opposed to remembering. Maybe I, you know, I’m not saying I was going like super dark, but you could see it, you know.

Did you, did you develop any of your own techniques, like on the job training that, you know, while you were doing undercover? You said, hey, I got to act in a certain way or, you know, I mean, just any, any special techniques on your own? Well, I mean, yes, but if I look back at how I grew up, some of it’s been there the whole time. I just honed it in. Like I like when I was bouncing, that’s when I really started. I was always a gift to gab talker that could connect with people. But being a bouncer at a bar with only two bouncers, you.

It’s kind of like self correcting behavior. If I go up and I push somebody and I’m already the gas, the fire is already lit and I’m pouring gas on it. How does that work out for me? Or can I go up and kind of de escalate and play baseball like a. Strike one, strike two, strike three, you’re out, buddy. But those, those kind of, you learn that and that, that was me growing and learning. But like, let’s just take the Outlaws case. You know, at a year and a half in, after doing all kinds of criminal acts, they take me down into a basement and strip me at gunpoint looking for a wire.

And I was wired, so that was a scary moment. But fast forward, two or three undercovers later, I found out through some people that some of the targets think that I’m a snitch or a fed and they’re going to come to my house to check me out. So what did I do? I did what I learned from the Outlaws. As soon as that dude walked in the house, I’m like, hey, shut the door. I don’t know you. You don’t know me. I want to take all your clothes off. I want to make sure you’re not wearing a wire.

And that dude’s like, what? And I’m like, take them off, I don’t know you. And then. And I took mine off to show hey just to kind of de escalate. Hey, I’m showing you I’m not wearing a wire. Well, where do I learn that? I didn’t learn that from the FBI. I learned that from having it done to me. Right. Well, let me. But did you say you got shaken down and you were wearing a wire at that time? Yeah. Um, what happened? Did they see it? No, they missed it. I. I’ve been pretty, I guess you could say anal about a piece of clothing.

Get wick. I get having a video recording on you. I know it makes the case stronger, but I’ve got to be comfortable in it. I don’t care if 30 people behind me and I, and I train this way. I tell undercover the same thing. I don’t care if 30 people are in the room going, oh, you’re a waste. Why would you go in there and do it? Well, then let them do it. Because if you’re not in your right mindset and you don’t feel comfortable, then you don’t need to be going through that door because you’re not ready.

So there was a piece of clothing in particular that I was like, I was pretty harsh on. Like the first version. Absolutely not. I’m not wearing that. The second version, I’m not wearing that. Third, fourth version. I’m like, now I’m getting there. So after a year and a half, we had. They were already predicated for drugs big time. And it was the outlaws in Massachusetts. And they thought I was a high ranking member of an international theft ring bringing stolen goods to Mexico. Because I was based on the border of Mexico. I was down in McAllen.

And as that played on and I gained more trust, they would. They would report vehicles stolen, then sell them to me at a stolen price. They would collect money from the insurance company and collect money from me. Then it got to where they were stealing cars and settle them to me for a stolen price. Then it got to where they were carjacking people and they were like, hey, Tex. That was my nickname they gave me. They’re like, tex, can you get rid of this vehicle? This thing is smoking hot. And I’m like, yeah, don’t, don’t worry about it.

I got it. My truck driver will come loaded up and before this thing even hits the tracking device, it’s. It’s going to be in Mexico. And then I gained that trust. So fast forward to a year and a half. There’s been murders on the case. Not directly tied to me or that would probably shut down the case, but the case team has done wire taps. I’ve bought drugs. There’s a lot of gun talk, all kinds of stuff going on. And it’s a violent gang, you know, so we up the ante to where we’re going to do basically a drug protection.

It’s going to be a drug deal. They’ve been begging me to Meet my cartel contacts, and it’s a chance for them to meet them. So we had a. We had 40 kilos of cocaine, 1,000 pounds of weed, and this is like 2007. Ish. So weed was still a pretty big deal. And it was going to be the cartel bringing the dope load up, passing it over to another cartel for a drug deal. And the Outlaws were going to help make sure that didn’t get ripped, and it would give them a chance to meet my contacts. So.

So the night before the deal, I go to the clubhouse because Joe Dogs told me to. He’s the president. He’s like, hey, Tex, come over to the clubhouse. I’m like, all right, cool. So I show up, and they don’t. He’s like, not answering the door. Well, he finally answers the door and like. Like, you know, like a TV barely peeks through and. Cause they were not ready for you yet. And I was. I was a smart ass. I was like, well, then why’d you tell me to come over here? And he says, hey, take this probate.

Go down, get something to eat, a couple of drinks, come back later. I was like, okay. I didn’t think nothing of it. I don’t want to say I was lax. I just didn’t think anything of it. So I come back, I go inside the clubhouse, and at that point, probably my second closest relationship was a guy whose road name was Clothesline, and he was the enforcer for the Taunton chapter, the Taunton Massachusetts Outlaws chapter. And he says, hey, Tex, you got a minute? And I said, yeah. And I’d probably been in that clubhouse maybe 20 times.

We go in the one door I’d never been in, and it was a tight stairwell that went down. It’s not a basement. It’s not a crawl space. It’s somewhere in between, maybe like a room. Like. I couldn’t stand up straight. I’m 6 4, but I couldn’t stand up straight. I could probably touch the wall on both sides. As I was following Clothesline in, another outlaw comes right behind me. And I’m sure you understand I should send off your spotty senses because something’s not right. And. And I’m going down there. I will tell you. I look for plastic on the floor.

I didn’t see it, but I did see a rope. And they brandished their pistols and let me know I was not free to leave. And Clothesline tells me, I need you to write down. He goes, there’s a lot of shit going on. It’s my job to take care of my brothers. He said, I need you to write down your full name, date of birth, social address. He said, I’m not going to ask for your names of your kids, even though we could find them if we wanted to. And then I need you to take all your clothes off because I check you for a wire.

Now, I’ll tell you, Michael, what I tell a lot of people. Had I not been wired, it would have just been an embarrassing, embarrassing situation. Being stripped naked in front of two guys with guns on me. But I was wired, and I had more than one device on me because I usually carry a backup or more. Because what if a video thing dies? And then the way you got audio back and you. You may have a transmitting device where the. Where the cover team can hear you. And. And I’ll tell you that it was an adrenaline dump.

It was very scary. It was such an adrenaline dump because of the stress. I forgot my middle name when I was writing down my stuff. And everything slows down. You get what they call auditory exclusion. So everything you hear is in slow motion, is going whoosh, whoosh. You’re like, scott, I need you. Felt like you’re underwater. And then you get time dilation. Everything you see is in clicks. It’s like screen grabs. You can feel your heart beating through your entire body. My hamstrings got rubbery. My throat tightens. My voice gets way higher than it is right now.

This is a baseline. If you hear the recording, you know, that’s not. That’s not my normal voice. And through the stress, I finally remember my middle name. I write it down. Then I take all my clothes off. I take jacket, shirts, however many I had on. I know it was cold that time of year, especially in Boston. And I took my boots off, and I dropped my underwear and jeans around my ankles. And so they’re searching me. They didn’t find anything. And I’m. And I’m talking the whole time because that’s what I’m trying to do. I’m trying to gather intelligence.

I’m trying to listen to what’s going on. Am I dying right now? Am I not? Some people are like, why didn’t you fight? I’m like, okay, there’s two dudes, they got guns. One of them is on the stairwell. No one. I’m not free to leave, even if I did make it past those two. They just finished church, which is their mandatory meeting every week. They call it church. And there’s probably 10 more outlaws upstairs and the doors barricaded. It has dead Bolts. It’s got a metal bar across it, and, I mean, what are you going to do? I don’t care if you’re the baddest MMA fighter on the planet.

It’s not a good. It’s not a good deal. Had I seen Plastic, I probably would have tried to fight, because I wouldn’t. I’m just like, I know what this means. I’m probably getting killed, and at least I’ll go out fighting. But I. They finish, I’m talking to him, and he’s even like, you know, trust me, man. If somebody accused me of being a fed, I’d probably smash him in the effing mouth. And I’m like, I’m not happy. And. And I’m telling him. I’m like, bro. He goes, there’s a lot of people concerned. I said, yeah, I get it.

I said, but nobody has to do anything. You guys asked to do that. If Nobod wants to do shit, they ain’t got to do shit, period. You know, because they’re talking like, hey, we’re. You know, we’re concerned because there’s this risk. Well, yes, risk, because it’s illegal. But you’re talking about worrying about going to jail. All I did was state the truth. If I was really working with the cartel, I’m like, if I screw this up, it’s worse than jail. I don’t know if you know how it works on the border, but I. Let me explain it to you.

Not only will they torture me, they’ll torture my entire family, my animals, everything. So I finish naked. He finishes checking me, so I’m pulling my jeans back up. I don’t know if I got my boots back on. But then he grabs a piece of clothing and he says, hey, I’m not going to find anything in here I don’t want to, right? Like some naked pictures of my old lady. And he kind of laughs because I told you we were tight, right? But my laugh is not a laugh. I’m like. My laugh is more like a. I hope not, because I’m freaking out now.

I’m on another adrenaline dump. I came up from the first one, now I’m on another one. And he start. He grabs a piece of clothing that has a recording device in it, and he starts going through it, and he starts kneading it with his fingers. And I’m thinking, this is. Again, this is around 2007. Not giving away what we can use and what we can’t use. But if he would have kept doing that, he probably would have felt something at that point. He even looks right at it. Doesn’t. He misses it. And while he’s doing that, I’m still freaking out.

Don’t even know I do it. But after playing the video countless times, teaching stuff, you can hear me watching him and. And I give an audible sign. I literally go. Because I’m just watching it going, what the hell am I going to do? And he missed it. And is it. Is it that small a device that he missed it, or did it blend in with the clothing? What. How did he miss? Well, that’ll get into trade crafts, and that’s what we try not to give away. But you know, tv, TV show stuff that people think we can do, stuff we can’t.

But I mean, just look at a. Look at like a thumb drive. Hell, in the what in 2007, it’s probably still a floppy disk, right? Then it goes to thumb drops, then it goes to a terabyte. You see how small two terabytes is now? So let’s just say if he would have kept squeezing, he probably would have. Probably would have felt it. Wow. Yeah. I remember one time there was a. A guy working undercover, and he wasn’t an agent, he was just an informant. And he had the. He had a little device in the. In his hat.

You know, it was a New York Yankee hat on. And everybody missed it. Yeah, I was a. We only found out about it when we went on trial. Yeah, that’s a pinhole camera. And then. And see, that happens too. So how many years have biker gangs or mafia or whatever been infiltrated by law enforcement and sources? And it goes to trial and then those techniques come out in trial. So we try not to throw that out there because again, that’s tradecraft. But it still sucks, you know. Well, you know, Scott, somebody, you know, when I was in the life, you know, guys were saying, hey, if you don’t trust somebody, you know, take them on a hit with you, tell them you got to murder somebody.

And that’s when it has to stop. And I said, but wait a second, you know, there’s also conspiracy to commit murder. If I’m sitting around talking to this guy about somebody that we’re going to murder, that could be a charge. And they said, well, there isn’t anybody. It was, it was unreal. You were just trying to flush him out. And I said, you know, that’s. That’s kind of an area I don’t want to go into. But I know, I know if something like that were to happen, because I had an undercover investigation on me briefly. They were trying to find out if organized crime was infiltrating professional boxing.

Okay. And then, long story short, it was on me for about eight months. It was an FBI agent undercover and an informant. But what happened when somebody got killed in the ring? They had to stop the investigation because they said, God forbid something like that would happen, we would get in trouble for it. So I guess things like that could kill the whole investigation, Correct? Yeah. I mean, for the FBI, I’ll say yes. I mean, like, I don’t know about, like, CIA overseas stuff. I spy stuff. But, yeah, that’s a game changer because, again, I took an oath to uphold the entire Constitution, not just one amendment, the entire constitution, to serve and protect.

And my correct title is peace officer. So if I’m out here allowing death to happen, well, just imagine that 40k that was real. That was 40 kilos of real cocaine. Can you imagine if that walk, like, if somebody ripped it or the Outlaws ripped it. Can you imagine if 40 kilos of cocaine hit the streets at 96 plus percent purity and it was the FBI’s fault and somebody died or somebody got killed over it? That’s on me. That’s on the team. I have a question for all my friends and followers. Have you tried my wine yet? You know, in the last two years, we’ve made tremendous progress with Franz east wine, and it’s really all thanks to your support and obviously because people are finding out we have a great wine at a great price.

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You. They do learn. Like, when I was in the Outlaws, it was the Outlaws that told me to rain to read Billy Queen’s book, William Queen, under and Alone. I haven’t met him. I hear he’s a good dude. I got a lot. We had a lot of mutual friends we’ve passed in the night. Like, either I’m leaving the conference and he’s coming in, or vice versa. But I do remember reading that book going, oh, I wish that Wasn’t in there because I’m still in trying to do it. But you’re. I like what you said, though, because I don’t know about that.

As far as the murder charge, I know it could probably tie into a rico, though. Right. And I will say this on a drug thing, like, even if I went and bought, people would be like, oh, well, they just sold you soap because they were ripping me. Yeah. But they represented it as crack cocaine. And as long as they represented as crack cocaine, we’re charging them for distribution. The crack cocaine. Really? Wow. Well, Scott, let me ask you. After that experience where you said everything slowed down, I know that had to be very, very scary. You continued in undercover operations, correct? Yeah, I did get at the end of that case.

And it wasn’t because of being stripped in the basement towards the end of that case. I’ve been going nonstop for three years. And like I said, it’s in depth in the book. I’m very vulnerable and transparent that way. Even though it sucks to stand up there in front of a group of alpha females and alpha males and say, you were scared, you know, but it’s the truth. But I, I actually, at the end of that case, that’s when I crashed mentally and physically. I was worn out. I was a walking zombie. And Safeguard came in, I called him.

I self reported, and they came in and said, you’re done. You know, so that, that after that, I got transferred to Tennessee at some point out of. Out of McAllen, Texas, which was out of the San Antonio FBI office. So I get to Tennessee, and then I have to make my bones as a case agent. And really, after only about six months after being in Tennessee, I landed another undercover, and that one ended up being full time because nobody knew me here. And I thought, well, you know what? I’ve done the undercovers where I’m all the way across the United States.

I know the pitfalls of that. And what’s. I know the cons of that. The pros are, I’m not close to home. But the cons are your wife calls you crying because the dog’s sick or a kid’s sick or somebody died, it’s going to take me an entire day or more to get back home. So I thought, well, let’s try this. It’s close to home, but let’s try it. And I went deep undercover because nobody knew me. But, yeah, I kept going home. Wow. And listen, nobody can fault you for admitting that you were scared. I mean, anybody would be scared in a situation like that.

There’s no question about it. Let me ask you this, too. You were involved in a plot or preventing a plot to blow up a synagogue? Uh, it was just. Well, yeah, first to, like, blow it up and then shoot it up. Um, it was a. It was a guy. I say kid, but he was. He was a grown man. If you look at the pictures, you’re like, man, is that dude a kid. But he was a grown man and already been. Already did time. So he was a felon. And that case started because he was so radical that the other white supremacists around the KKK and stuff, there were people reporting on him, going, this guy.

I mean, you might want to. In other words, they’re like, we don’t want this heat. This dude is really talking some crazy stuff. Somebody ought to look at him. And I was introduced to him and I met him. He believed that I was a longtime member of the white supremacy movement, most likely Aryan nations, and that I was what I call a closer. I don’t know there’s a correct title for it. I call it a closer. In other words, it’s not quite a murder for hire, but you’re meeting me because you want me to supply you with the bomb, supply you with the guns, whatever it’s going to be.

That synagogue that was in Myrtle beach, and he had already scoped it out. He wanted to do something. And normally I don’t say the names of the bad people because we don’t want to give them any more fame or credit, but I’ll say it because this is what was going on there at that time. Dylann Roof was going. He was in trial, the mass shooter white supremacist that shot up the black church. And I think he killed nine people in Charleston, South Carolina. So that’s. So that trial was going on. This guy Benji said, I want to do something in the spirit of Dylann Roof, but on a grander scale.

He even said after he shot everybody and blew up whatever or killed everybody, he would spray paint on the wall in the spirit of Dylann Roof. And I’m not one of those that’s like super, like. Like you go meet somebody and you come back, go, this is the. This is the worst dude in the world. This is going to kill everybody. I’m on the other end of that spectrum. I’m a little more skeptical. But, Michael, when I walked away from that meeting with Benji, I came back to the case team and I said, I’m 99.9 sure, out of 100%, that if I was really a bad person.

If. And I said, you need to take out those cameras. Do it during this time of day. Here’s an AK or whatever. I said, I’m, I’m 99.9% sure he’d do it. I was also 99% sure that if he decided to do something, he would probably contact me, which was good, because that’s what we want. We want the ticket. We don’t want him out there trying to find somebody else to help him kill people. And what he did, it was pretty simple. He ended up asking for a weapon in the meantime while he was trying to find another synagogue.

Because I, I explained to him, you’re already a known felon here. You telling me that everybody, all the local cops and stuff know you here? Why would you want to do something here? So he liked that. I said, you know what? I’m going to look for a place as farther away, but in the meantime, you think you could hook me up with a 40? And I didn’t miss a BE. I was like, yeah, what do you think? Glock Sig, what do you want? And he said he wanted a Glock, told me how many rounds he wanted, and we set up the deal.

And, you know, he was already predicated. He asked for it, I just delivered it. And he got locked up for being a felon in possession of a weapon. Wow. Unbelievable. You know, and it’s just by somehow getting involved that this information comes out. It’s, it’s fascinating to me how you, how you even get accepted into those groups or these people start to converse with you. You know, it’s, it’s, every one of them is different really. You know, like with Benji, he had already been putting it out there. So somebody introduced us and said, hey, this is a guy you can trust kind of thing.

I mean, there was a blow up situation in Greenville, South Carolina where a guy got fired from the Michelin plant. Originally, he wanted to blow up the entire plant. And then he narrowed it down to a black couple, a married couple that he blamed for losing his job. And he was asking me for bonds and we did supply him with one. It was, I mean, it was, it was inert, it wasn’t going to blow up, but other than that, everything. And it was pretty real. And he wanted it to be light activated so it would blow up.

When, in other words, it doesn’t blow up on the porch or at the mailbox. He wanted them actually bring it in. And when they open it up, the light activates the bomb. And that would and that way he could make sure they were dead. So there’s stuff like that. But like up big groups, it just depends. Like the Outlaws, I went in cold, I, I knew where they hung out. The case team had a lot of intelligence on where they hung out, personalities of certain members. So if you’ve got a member that loves to be the center of attention and loves to be surrounded by big dudes, that’s good for me to know.

And that helps me because at that point I think I might have been like 285 pounds, holding it pretty well and 6 foot 4, flat footed. So if I get in there and I’m a loudmouth or I’ve got the bar laughing around me and I’m doing what I do, I’m meeting people that connect with them, telling jokes, maybe he sees that and he’s like, who is that guy? What the hell’s going on over there? Plus, with this accent in Boston, I’m going to stand out as soon as I start talking right? You know, so those are good things to know.

Some of the white supremacy ones, I mean like the kkk, they actually had a hotline. You could, you could call the, the Klan hotline. So they’re actively recruiting the base. They were actively recruiting online. So you just answer. But everybody’s different, you know, like you talk about like Joe and some of the mafia cases, like a Jack Garcia working that stuff, those gurus, it’s a little different, but every case is different. You know, Scott, I got to ask you this, and I’m not trying to clean up, you know, mafia causing us or anything like that, but you know, we did our thing and obviously, you know, we were motivated by money and power and there were times when we heard innocent people.

But a lot of the stuff we did was among ourselves. When you see these radical groups like the Ku Klux Klan and these white supremacists and these neo Nazis, they, they’re hell bent, they hurt innocent people. I mean that’s, that’s part of their game. I’m with you. You know, the mentality that these people have is just, it’s, it’s not good. I mean, it’s bad. It’s just really bad. I get the delineation. You know, a lot of people, I mean like cops I know now that grew up in the Boston area, they’re like, you know, you can say what you want about Whitey Ford, but south, he was on lockdown and it was ran by his code.

I can say the same thing about the cartel, the Cartel, the Guelph Cartel. When I was a case agent for six and a half years on the border, it was ran by Ozil Cardenas. And as violent as it was, there were parameters. There were, there was an sop and then when he got taken out, it created a vacuum and everybody was fighting for that power in that territory and a lot more people died. So I get that, like gang on gang violence. But yeah, if you’re talking about like, like the current theme and trend and white supremacy, it’s getting darker and darker.

And I’m not talking kkk, usually that’s Christian identity or they claim to be pagans, but just like they take Christianity, twist stories in the Bible, bastardize it so it fits their ideology. They’ll do the same thing with pagan. I got good friends that are pagans. I mean I love Vikings, I got Viking tattoos all over me. But they’ll take that belief system and bastardize it so it fits their ideology. But the accelerationist, that’s like the groups I started infiltrating before I retired and we uncovered multiple plots and, and what they want is the downfall of society.

They don’t believe that there’s a political solution that can save the white race. They believe that society is going to collapse on its own or for man made events and they want to speed that up. They want to speed up the collapse. Actually one of the guys that shocked me, but one of the guys in the group who went by the code name Helter Skelter, he said he voted for Hillary Clinton when she ran for president. And I was like, wow. And he’s like, yes, well think about it bro. He said, we want that, we want the collapse.

He goes, if she wins, it’s going to be defund the police, it’s going to be open borders, going to be riots, towns are going to be set on fire. So when you see all that happening in America, it’s not just our adversaries and threat countries that are happy that there’s chaos going on. If you’re an accelerationist, you’re happy too. You’re sitting up on the hill giggling, going, keep shooting each other and we’ll come down and clean it up. Now there’s not a lot of forethought or afterthought. Does that mean they’re going to take over the entire United States? I had those conversations with them as a member, you know, what are you going to do if the cops show up? What are you going to do if the National Guard shows up? What are you going to do if the army, Navy, Air Force, Marines show up.

And they would just kind of get washed out and talk. But I never underestimate, I try not to. And like some people are like, well, how many are there really? Are there millions of white supremacists? I’m not going to say that, but are there thousands? Yeah, but. Well, I mean, they only killed a few people. How many is too many? For me, one’s too many? You know, where do you draw the line? And now it’s even taking a darker turn because a lot of your accelerationists, like the base, which is kind of defunct now, or atomwaffen, which is I believe, defunct now, they go to other groups, but there’s groups that are like order of nine angles and seven, six, four, which are white supremacists, but they are heavily satanic and they are big on self mutation, rape, any kind of sexual abuse.

They’re going on pedophilia, they’re going on and grooming kids and tweens. A lot of them are boys on like video games and they’re having watch parties where they have like, they might get a picture of you doing something nasty sexually. Now they’re extorting you and they’re telling you if you don’t cut yourself on this watch party, we’re going to release this. And, and you know, the, out of fear and embarrassment. It’s just a good old extortion game. But it’s sick. They’re. They’re having them cut themselves. They call it a bean. So they, when they, when you actually cut through the fat, when it fills the skin open, it looks like a navy being cut open.

Having people take their own lives on video. And again, like I said earlier, and it’s very dark and it’s very, very sick and disturbing to me. No, well, you know, Scott, I’ve been speaking to some people that were involved in, you know, trying to prevent human rescue. You know, some of the traffic, some of the kids that have been trapped. And I’m pretty amazed, I don’t know what the word is, that it’s so widespread. Yeah, I mean, I’ve talked to, you know, this, this gentleman, Paul Hutchinson, who was involved with the Sound of Freedom, that movie.

He was the guy that rescued, you know, the, the kids. And what he was telling me was just shocking the level that this is going on. Is this, you know, was this a major, you know, effort by the FBI, you know, to stop human during your time? Yeah, I’ve seen things. We had like a tourism. There was a case out of Miami division. And it was actually way back then, Costa Rica had reached out to us and said, hey, we got a problem. And it was getting to where you could take a flight over and somebody would pick you up and they would show up with a book and you could break it down by ethnicity, sex and age and be like, hey, I would like, you know, this, this ethnicity female or boy they would be calling, you know, bring trinkets, stuff like that.

So yeah, there’s definitely tourism stuff. I never did it, but I’ve had some mentors and peers that did stuff overseas to help thwart that kind of stuff in like Thailand and places like that. And it’s very, very sad. But then you get it within the states where you find families, I mean basically prostituting out their kids or sensing out their kids, young kids, and, and, and then you get to innocent images and child and stuff like that. You’ve got. Just as an undercover coordinator in my division, I’m an active undercover, I’m a case agent first, but I’m the undercover coordinator.

I go over to the crimes against children squad, the task force, and I’m looking and let’s just say it’s during Napster days or whatever, any kind of peer to peer network. They’re showing me how many hits there are on matched images, known images, known victims, going to all these, you could literally do knock and talks all day long every day. It’s like drinking from a hot fire hydrant. And it’s, it’s, that’s, it’s very sad. But with all the good things that come with technology, bad things come with technology. And people just have to understand, and I say this in the book and I say it on a lot of interviews in my mind, you just have to understand that there are evil people on this planet that want to do evil things to good people.

And it’s been that way pretty much since the beginning of time. I’m an optimist. I’m a glasses half full guy. I know the battle I fight for, I know which fight, the good fight. I try to keep fighting, but I don’t want some people can’t deal with it mentally. You know, I’ve got family members who can’t. You know, they’ll see one story and they’re like, oh my gosh, it rocks their whole world. And they’re like, how can something so horrific happen? But in my mind I’m like, bro, you have no idea. That’s, I mean that’s still a bad thing that you’re talking about.

But that’s nothing on the scale of things that go on and more people and, and hopefully it’ll shift back to that. I mean, it used to be a national initiative to, for like, to protect kids and stuff like that and, and God bless the people that work it, bro. I can’t. I mean, I can be the undercover that goes and picks you up and shows you the book. I can’t look at that stuff. Not me. No. It rocks me. I can’t do it. I agree with you. Some of the things I’m hearing, I can’t even, I can’t process it.

It’s so hard. I mean, I, you know, I have seven kids, seven grandchildren, and, and I, I just can’t even process some of the things that I’ve heard. I don’t know. To me, it’s demonic. It’s, it’s. I don’t know what else to call it. It’s demonic. And, you know, I just hope whatever law enforcement agencies are involved that they just make it their major effort and do something to resolve it as best they could, I guess. Look, it’ll go on till the end of time. It’s just the way it is. But I got two other questions.

One, you know, lately, of course, today we, There was an announcement that they arrested 17 Iranian nationals that possibly could be part of some terrorist, you know, Iranian terrorist plot here. And of course, that’s something to worry about now, especially with events happening the way they’ve happened in the past couple of days. What fascinates me too is how do they find these people? You know, the FBI, they’re good at this. I know that, you know, Christopher Wray was saying that we have these, these groups here and that it’s not a question of if it’s going to happen, it’s when it’s going to happen.

And then today, the FBI, you know, find 17 of these people and possibly stopped, you know, you know, some of these cells from doing some real terror damage. How do they, how do they find these people out of nowhere? There’s all kinds of ways. But, but let me just tell you, me being a proactive law enforcement officer, just like I was when I was in uniform, I didn’t sit in the cul de sac and wait on somebody to give me a call from dispatch. I was out in the high crime areas trying to, trying to find stuff and stop bad things before they stop.

Stop things before something bad happened. So as a case agent in the FBI, like if I’m on the Joint Terrorism Task Force and my mom assigned to international terrorism. I better be out there developing sources of information. I better be working with all the state and local law enforcement officer agencies and trying to find out stuff and maybe even spread knowledge. So like, when I first got to McAllen, Texas, I was working dope. No brainer. You’re on the border. Right. And then it came in. They created a joint terrorism task force squad, and the flavor of the month was really special interest alien smuggling.

So was I working human trafficking? Alien smuggling, yes. But I went to border patrol and I’m saying, look, we’re, we’re not going to take off a load of necessarily. And I mean, things happen. But we’re not looking for Mexican nationals. Other than Mexican is what they call them, OTMs, like Honduras, Guatemala. I’m looking for, I’m looking for undocumented aliens trying to sneak into the country illegally from threat countries. So that would be like a China or a lot of your Middle east things. And that’s what we’re looking for. And I’m, I’m letting border patrol and other agencies know that.

And they’re. Now they know. They know what they’re looking for. And maybe it’s just a phone call, you know, maybe it’s just a uniform. Cops and say, I stopped the car last night and somebody said this, or I saw this weird paraphernalia, weird, like propaganda in their car. And I took a picture of it. That’s what it looks like. Those are things. And, and for me, it all boils back down to human intelligence. I mean, technology is great. Wiretaps, all that stuff’s great. But if I’m at the end of the day, if everything crashes, it’s still human intelligence.

And I’m not talking about snitching or ratting or, you know, people want to kind of tie it and put it into a corner, but we need to be out there looking for that. So hopefully you already know that you’ve got these, these people from Iran in your neighborhood. Does that mean that you open the case on them? No. Does that mean that they’re doing anything illegal? No. But is it good to know? Yeah. If you’re coming from a threat country, it’s good to know. And I imagine that’s what they did. But I will tell you that, and I don’t care left or right.

I’m not trying to say Republican versus Democrat or vice versa, but I will tell you, with the open borders, we have no clue what’s in this country. I worked that border for six and a half years and Even when Covid happened, there would be like a man. There’s not even the second and third shift. The border patrol aren’t even working right now. You’re like, what? And I’m like, well, let me. Let me explain it to you in a criminal standpoint. From when I was working it, we get a call that Hebronville has apprehended a load of undocumented aliens.

They’ve got the walker, the coyote, and they have figured out through their questions that they belong to an organization that I had already told them about. Hey, if you get anybody from this organization, give us a call, because we’re trying to build a case against this person or this organization, this smugglerization. So me and another border patrol agent, or a border patrol agent, I’m an FBI agent, we drive out in the middle of the night to Hebronville. We get there and we both look at each other and go. We never went through a checkpoint. So we go in and we go, hey, what happened to the checkpoint on such and such road? Because everything you get across the river, but then all roads should tie into a checkpoint, usually about an hour inland.

And we never crossed it. And they said, yeah, we’re understaffed. Michael, here’s what I tell you. It probably took maybe 30 minutes or less for the cartel to know that and everybody to go, everybody start moving your loads on this road right now because it’s not covered. So can you imagine when nobody working and the border not being secured or people not doing law and order? I’m not trying to paint a picture and say everybody coming in is bad. I know the humanitarian side of it. I’ve seen some horrific things. I’ve seen some things that broke my heart.

Where they put a wife. I mean, I’m sorry, I put a mother and a daughter on a plane back to, like, Chile or somewhere. And you’re like, but look at what they went there. They’re not bad. But look at what they went through to get here. That’s the humanitarian crisis. But you have to know that. That people would, with nefarious plans, are going to use that to their advantage as well. Well, Scott, listen, not. You’re not being political at all. Just as a citizen. You know, what this guy did with these open borders, what he allowed to come into this country was.

It’s criminal, in my opinion. You just don’t do that, you know? And for me, it’s Congress getting off their collective asses and putting a proper legislature in place that allows these immigrants to come in, obviously legally. And then the good ones to, you know, to work towards citizenship. I don’t see anything wrong with that. But it’s just to open the border and allow anybody and everybody to come in unvetted. You know, all these gotaways, all these problems that we’ve had, it’s just, that’s the other thing. So you get the. It’s basically a notice to appear. You come in and they’re like, and this happened even when I was down there and I was there from 01282001 to 2008.

We would apprehend and he’d be like, okay, you need to come back to court at such and such date. They never come back. And then they say, oh, well, where were they located? Well, it’s a place up in maybe Massachusetts. So you go there and it’s a, It’s a complex or multiple complexes. That is heaven. Heavily, heavily occupied by undocumented aliens. You never find the person. So that’s kind of the gotaways. What I used to say, Michael, as. I’m like, look, I’m a law enforcement officer. Don’t. Don’t hate me for doing my job. I’m just enforcing the law.

If you don’t like the law, change the law. But then they started picking and choosing what they want to do. And I’m happy that nothing, I’m very happy that nothing bad’s happened yet. And I know, you know, you can watch whatever channel you watch, it’s going to get skewed to whatever their viewers want. There’s, There’s a lot of in betweens that people don’t see. But usually it takes a catastrophic event to happen, something very bad to happen before everybody starts doing something. So I hope that doesn’t happen. And I’m happy to see laws being enforced because that’s, I mean, I’m a law and order guy.

Clearly I did 28 years of it, so. Well, Scott, I got to tell you, you know, yeah, I’m a former mob guy, and there was one time I didn’t like police. I didn’t like law enforcement. You know, I had a different mentality back then. But now, as a, as a husband, a father, you know, and a guy with common sense, you know, this whole thing to defund the police and defund law enforcement is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard of. And after speaking with you and just hearing your experiences and the, and the things that you’ve been able to stop and prevent, you got to be out of your mind not to support law enforcement.

And, you know, that brings me to this question. You know, the current state of the FBI. Dan Bongino is a friend of mine. I happen to like him and respect him a lot. And Cash Patel, I don’t know him, but what I’ve seen of him, you know, I really observe him. I think that they’re going to get the FBI in a better position than it was for the past several years. And I just want to know what your take on. On that is. I hope so. I clearly my book is positive for the FBI. I don’t bash it.

I think I may say something in there about some management issues, and that’s why I switched to another squad. But which happens anywhere, I believe in it. Do my personal opinion is, do I think the FBI needed some changing? Absolutely. Did I think the Department of Justice needed some changing? Absolutely. That’s my opinion. I have it. From what I’ve seen from Cash, I don’t know him. I know that before he was appointed, I’d seen some interviews and, you know, I might watch it, knowing what I know and go, well, that’s wrong. But I’m not saying he’s a bad guy for not knowing it.

What I’m hoping is any good leader, no matter which leader book you read, you know, Cullen Powell, he’s going to read that book and it’s going to. I said, I guarantee you somewhere in that book he’s going to talk about surrounding himself with heavy hitters. You don’t have to know everything about everything, but you can surround yourself with the right people. So maybe you come into an organization, think in one way going, I want to know what happened on this investigation. Well, then hopefully you’ve got a seasoned case agent who can articulate, because that’s what it’s all about.

Can we articulate what we did? Comes in and says, well, this is why we did what we did. And bam, bam, bam. And then you answer your questions and you go, oh, okay, well, that’s only up and up next. Let’s go to the next thing. And I think that’s what’s happening. I mean, I still talk to people who are in the bureau. There’s. There’s some people who are worried about, you know, getting walked out or whatever. But like I said, I think personally, I think it needed some changing. Well, Scott, I appreciate that. And name of your book and where is it available? The name of my book is codename Pale Horse because that was my nickname in the base and all the other cool undercover titles have been taken, but codename Pale Horse.

And the. The subtitle is How I Infiltrated Them. Or what is it? How I Went Undercover to Expose America’s Nazis. I. I wanted it to say something a little different because if you read that title, it doesn’t sound like I did biker stuff or public corruption stuff or murder for hire stuff, but that’s all in there. You can get the book anywhere. The. The audiobook we’re. I mean, it’s only been out for three months to today. It came out 325. And I’m already a New York Times bestselling author, so that’s a blessing. But I did the audiobook.

It’s in my voice, and I think that’s what kicked us over the top. You can get it anywhere. Spotify, Amazon. I will say, if you go to Amazon, my book will be at the top. It is my face under it. Or scams. We get them kicked off. We get them kicked off, but it’ll be like, agent Pill, Horse Workbook. And they’ve taken my face and used AI and made it older. And I’m like, I called Simon and Schuster. I’m like, did we do a workbook? I don’t remember doing a workbook. And they’re like, no, that’s a scam.

Part of me wants to order it. It’s only like 10 bucks. I’m like, I wonder what it says. But, yeah, you can get it anywhere. Simon and Schuster, Barnes and Noble, any bookstore. You can. You can get it. Well, listen, I commend you for reading your. Your own book for audio. I had to do that a couple of times. Was kind of rough. Be honest with you. Read your own book. But. But it’s the best way to do it. But I gotta tell you this, after this conversation, I’m definitely going to get the book because it was extremely interesting.

And I got to tell you, I really. I applaud you and commend you and thank you for your work. I mean, you’ve done tremendous work. And I know what it is, especially after talking to Joe and, you know, getting to know him, it’s tough, man. Going undercover is rough. And you guys, you really put yourself on the line, and I really appreciate it. So thank you very much and maybe we’ll run into each other one day. Absolutely. Thank you for having me on here, buddy. All right, buddy, We’ll. We’ll let you know when this airs. It’ll be probably within the next week.

Sounds good to me. All right, people. There, you get it. You know, I don’t know about you. But, you know, when he described that situation when he was with the outlaws and they were shaking him down, you know, made him strip, you know, do everything, shaking him down. Two guys with guns on him. Had they found that recording device, forget it. He was a dead guy. And he told you, you know, listen, I experienced that one time walking into a room thinking I was going to die. I’m telling you, I was scared. And he said it, he was scared because he knew if they found that device on him, he was in trouble.

It probably would have shot him right then and there would have been all over, you know. And yet he continued. He was able to continue. He got through it somehow. But it had an impact on him. What he talked about human trafficking, you know, just disgusting. Terrible. We need people like Scott on the street doing whatever they need to do to these bad people that are abusing children. It’s horrible. It’s disgusting. It’s demonic, you know, and anybody that supports it, it’s demonic. Anybody that engages in that kind of activity, hurting children is demonic. There’s no other way to put it.

And these people need to suffer the. The. The greatest extent of the law to go after them and hold them accountable whatever way they have to. You know, man, if they were on the street when we were on the street and we caught them, forget it all over, you know? And yes, they do. They do treat these people differently in prison, and they deserve it. I’m sorry, that’s my feeling. I’m going to say it whether you like it or not. You know, I’m a father, I’m a grandfather, and I’m just a human being that cares about kids.

How do you do this stuff? So he’ll tell you a little bit about that. It’s disgusting. I had Paul Hutchinson on and he told you about that, how he rescued those 51 kids. Sound of Freedom, the movie. He was the guy. This stuff is horrible, man. I don’t care how many agents they put on the street, how many undercover people they put on the street to find this stuff out. Terrible. Talks about the neo Nazis. You heard what he had to say. Prevented a bunting and in a synagogue. Terrible stuff. We need guys like Scott. Get his book.

Read it. It’s all over Amazon. The audiobook is out there. Wherever you can get it, get a copy of it. Because I think, you know, not only are you going to be intrigued by it, you’re going to be educated, you know, and then hopefully anybody out there that wants to talk to you about defunding the police, you’ll put them in their place, exactly where they belong. And yes, that’s coming from a former mob guy. That’s it for today, my friends. How do I always leave you? Same way. These things get me crazy when I hear this stuff, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s.

I just don’t get it, man. I don’t get how these people can. Human traffic children, how you can have a menu, ordering what kind of kid you want to do sexual things with. This is disgusting behavior, you know? How do you. I just don’t process it. I just can’t. But anyway, be safe. You know, it’s guys like Scott that help us be more safe. Guys like Joe Postone, dear friend guy I love, you know, guys like this that help keep the streets and families and neighborhoods and communities safe. Be safe, be healthy. Of course. And yes, God bless each and every one of you.

God bless your neighborhood, your community, your families. God bless America. God bless our president, all those that are advising him that they do the right thing, not only for this country, but for everybody around the world. Because we have big influence here. Yes. I’ll see you next time.
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