CHAOS: The Manson Murders (2025) MK-ULTRA and Hollywood | Under The Docs 016

➡ The documentary “Chaos: The Manson Murders” explores the Manson murders from a different perspective, suggesting a connection to the CIA’s mind control project, MK Ultra. The film suggests that Charles Manson, instead of being kept in jail, was allowed to roam free and possibly used for MK Ultra experiments. The documentary also discusses Operation Chaos, a CIA initiative to disrupt domestic movements in the 1960s, and suggests that the Manson murders were used to discredit the hippie movement. The film also hints at a possible attempt to blame the murders on the Black Panthers, further stirring social unrest.
➡ The film suggests that the Manson trial and the Helter Skelter narrative were exaggerated to sell books. It also claims that the infamous Sharon Tate murder was a mistake, as the intended target was record producer Terry Melcher, who had moved out. The film also highlights that the Beach Boys used one of Manson’s songs without giving him proper royalties, which allegedly fueled his anger. Lastly, it suggests that Manson may have learned mind control techniques from Jolly West, who was possibly connected to the CIA.
➡ This documentary discusses the life and work of Jolly West, a prominent physician and professor who was involved with the CIA’s MK Ultra program, which explored mind control techniques and drug use. The film suggests that West’s work may have influenced certain events and individuals, including Charles Manson. However, some viewers feel the documentary doesn’t fully cover the depth of West’s involvement or the extent of the MK Ultra program. Despite this, the documentary is seen as a good introduction to these topics for those unfamiliar with them.
➡ The speaker discusses a movie called Cywar, which deals with psychological propaganda. They also mention a website called paranoidamerican.com and another called killthemockingbirds.com. They talk about learning the history of various secret societies, including the Bavarian Illuminati, from the 18th century to the present day. The speaker also mentions a comic about the Illuminati and ends with a rap verse about their life and experiences.

CIA, STDs, LSD, Manson and five under the docks. Yeah, under the docks. Under the docks. Under the docks. Yeah, under the docks. Sean Chris Paranoid American this is under the docks today. Chaos The Manson murders 2025 film directed by Earlonne Morris. I’m probably butchering the name, but this film comes from the book Chaos, the Manson Murders from Tom o’ Neill and it explores the murders in a different sense. And since everybody knows this is mind control MK Ultra month, we had to dive into not a classic as far as film wise, but a classic as far as MK ultra conspiracies and the Manson murders.

Plus the book chaos is a 20 year plus project. So this is sort of OG material even if the documentary itself is fairly new. The research has been going on for over half my lifetime. Yeah and he got big on the, out there in Tom o’ Neill when he went on the Rogan show and he went on Rogan and started talking about the book and I think that’s where it really set fire and probably inspired whoever when they, Morris put this film together, probably contacted him, inspired him to do that. Is probably seeing that because I know I didn’t hear of it personally until he was on Rogan which was I think two, three years ago or something like that.

Well, the show that I do on Tuesday’s Live Think Tank, this particular topic comes up on damn near every single show. And it’s one of those things that goes so deep that it’s a little bit hard to even think that they would cover the entire thing in roughly an hour and a half like they do in this chaos documentary. Again, 20 years of research, but there’s so many rabbit holes man. When you get into the Hollywood aspect, the SRA aspect, the MK Ultra aspect, Charles Manson in himself could warrant for, you know, multi documentary series. So this is a, this is a crazy one.

Plotting the course. There’s some wild, as you alluded to key claims in this. I’m, I’m going to just start off right away with one of the kind of major claims and I’m going to connect it later to another claim, but Charles Manson and the Aubrey Free Medical Clinic, his connection after getting out of jail, Manson which according to the film in the book that he did not want to get out, right? Like they, they specify that like he was, had like a couple more years. He’s like I want to stay in jail. Like he was in for seven or eight years or something.

He was like willing to stay in there. And then they connect his, his roots of, with The Manson family going to this clinic. And at this clinic, they were experimenting with LSD and a lot of like, mind control stuff. And allegedly may have met what something. We’ll speak a little bit later. Jolly west, who I think plays a significant role in this film. Yeah. And that this particular clinic was where. Where you would call Hashberry. This is the. Hey, Ashberry, which is in Crossroads. Right. Just these two different. The street. Hey. And the street of Ashbury.

They connect together. This one particular spot, there’s a clinic there. And like you were mentioning, not only was Manson somehow not going directly to jail over and over again, they were like, no, no, we need you out in the open world. But he went to this clinic for at least two different reasons. One of those is because it’s where he met his parole officer. It’s where they had their weekly meetings. And. And the other reason is because he had this harem of women that followed him around that I guess were just loaded with STDs, literally. And they would go to that particular clinic again, probably just tagged along with him for his weekly parole visit.

They’d all just get like their weekly shots, you know, or whatever the hell they. They were doing to scrape that stuff out of there, make sure they’re still good to go. Right. I don’t think Manson cared, man. And to like piggyback off a little bit of that claim too, is that the weird thing about that was that he was on parole and that was a violation of his parole to leave, I think was Los Angeles county to go into San Francisco, the Berkeley area. So that alone was a violation. That normally it was me or you would get picked up on that.

This, the. The clear point that this documentary was making with this one is that he was intentionally not being allowed to hang out in jail. Someone in jail. I’ll read between the lines here. Someone in jail saw the potential of Charles Manson and said, what are we doing wasting this resource inside a prison? This guy could be under MK Ultra. He could be a project. So they made sure that he didn’t go back in jail, no matter what he did, no matter what he got mixed up in, including murder. They were like, no, no, he’s good.

Just have him come back to the Hashberry Clinic. The second major claim that I’ll go off of. And this is huge too. This is kind of like, basically, it’s a. Why it’s titled what it’s titled, Right. The CIA Operation Chaos. Operation Chaos was initiated by the CIA to monitor and disrupt domestic movements during the 1960s. So the hippie movement, we’ve heard of this kind of infiltration before. I’ve talked about the Cass Sunstein cognitive infiltration. But this is like the roots of it where this anti war movement, what we would call the hippie movement, the drug movement, whatever you want to label these different movements, they were trying to get into these groups and kind of dictate what they did and kind of change their philosophies or make them look bad.

The analogy in this documentary is they bring up FBI’s COINTELPRO and basically the FBI is supposed to operate inside the US domestically and the CIA is supposed to operate internationally. And this is one of the clear examples of the CIA stepping on some toes or just doing their. They held some justification as to how this dealt with international matters. But the truth is that they were just running their own version of cointelpro. And in this brief documentary they, they sort of point out a couple of the reasons. One of those was, like you said, it was the infiltrate these left wing groups in particular and neutralize them.

That was, quote, to neutralize them. And this sort of encompassed the Black Panthers and the hippie movement. And there’s also some correlation where once Manson started causing all this ruckus and got on TV and we’ve got these Manson murders and a cult maybe that is following him and that there’s LSD involved, the CIA tries to rub some of that stink on the hippie movement at large so that the parents watching at home, they see, hey, if you let your kids go to San Francisco and, and take acid and be, you know, become part of this hippie movement, they’re just going to murder people.

They’re just going to turn either into Manson himself or they’re going to follow some guy like Manson. And that was just playing directly into chaos, directly into it. And that leads me into that claim of FBI operations against the Black Panthers where like that was the tactics they were using and not only their operation, but how it seemed that the murders and they kind of connect in the, in the film that like they were staged to look like the Black Panthers created a lot of these murders. There was paw prints, there were certain aspects that were left to.

They talk about one guy that was shot, not a very prominent black Black Panther member. I think it turned out that he was not even in the Black Panthers, but they thought he was associated in a prominent Black Panther. Black Bernie, I believe his name was. And him getting shot was like the premise of like, hey, we can blame this all now on the Panthers. The, the Actual murders. Yeah. There’s this subtext of racism and Helter Skelter with Charles Manson and that they would write the word pig in the blood of the murder scene on the way out using, like, a little towel.

And it was also supposed to be fermenting this. This racial war. And I guess in. In their mind, it was a very real escalation, something that was just gonna happen if they just kind of like pushed it over the edge. Even though it didn’t technically happen the way that they envisioned Manson. He claimed that he was inspired by the. The Beatles album and that they would listen to the White Album for days on end on these long acid trips, then they go out and do these murders and they would sort of use the blood to. Of the murder scene to write lyrics from the Beatles albums.

And the one that they stuck with was this Helter Skelter. Which gets me into my next claim from the prosecutor writing the book, Vincent Boski, I think that’s how you say his name, where he suggested, like, you know, like, goes off of this premise of the Beatles murder and Helter Skelter’s name to the book. And the claim in this film, and not just this film, but they hone in on it here is that Helter Skelter was written and the whole Manson trial was just like. To sell books. Like, he was painting this picture and making it so extravagant that.

So he could sell his book that he was writing and had people there writing and taking notes of the trial right when he was having Manson right there. And then all the little extra stuff with the women and. And Manson, it really like they played a part. It almost as if they were in on it together. I mean, it became a spectacle. And almost everyone from every walk of life exploited the Manson murders in some capacity. Right? One of the. I don’t know if you got this. This key point in yours. This was just like a small little tidbit, but I didn’t know this part that the man, or at least is what they claim that the Manson murders, that where.

That took the Sharon Tate, right? They go and they break in. And this probably one of the most famous of all of the. The Tate LaBianca murders. But the Sharon Tate murder only happened because Manson didn’t know that this record producer, Terry Melcher, moved that originally he was trying to take out this guy, Terry Melcher. When they showed up and they said, hey, you know, Charlie, he’s not there. He said, well, just kill anyone that’s in the house and who happened to be in the house was Sharon Tate and four other people. So that the. The most famous of the Charles Manson murders, according to the.

Some of the research presented in this documentary was kind of done as a mistake. I’m not sure how much I believe or understand that. Yeah. That. That it. They painted the picture too of like that’s what I was gonna. One of my other claims. I didn’t have that as a claim because they did it. Being a mistake does sound like human nature. Right. Like, hey, we’re gonna kill this guy. But it. It also is a little far fetched for me because you’re like, he just so happened not to be there and all these other famous people were there and they’re like, yeah, just kill him anyways, you know.

And they made it seem like they were so drugged out that they just followed the orders. But one of the funny claims in here to me not funny, but ironic that I didn’t realize is that the Beach Boys used one of Manson’s songs and. And they re. They renamed it and kind of took. You know, and they. That’s the premise of him being psychotic and pissed off about all this stuff is that they use. His song didn’t give him any royalties. He got like 300 bucks up front and he. That’s what kind of made him on this rampage.

Yeah, it was. The song was called Cease to Exist and it’s officially credited to Dennis Wilson, but it’s actually Charles Manson’s song. Like you say, he gave him 300 bucks outright and then he just kept all the royalties. So after the song starts selling and starts doing fairly well, Charlie goes and asks him, hey, where’s my action? He’s like, nah, bro, like you sold it. And this was atypical. This was clearly Dennis Wilson absolutely taking advantage. Charles Manson and that Charlie, he only really had any sort of possible product. I don’t even say productive. But the only way he was going to ever exist in society was probably going to be as a musician.

And since that got taken away from him in such a dramatic way. Yeah. That kind of gets cited as one of these breaking points when he’s like, all right, screw the world and I’m taking everyone with me. Yeah. And my final key claim in this is Go back to Jolly west is when you see the. The. The women and the followers of the Manson family, it seemed like Charlie learned the. Some techniques along the way. And they claim that these techni of mind control that he learned was from Jolly West. Now he. Jolly west pushes back like they don’t really Interview him.

But like throughout the years, they talk about, he denies any involvement with the CIA and his experiments with lsd. But him being at that clinic and connecting to Charles Manson, to me, it does have a little thread right there where he got these tactics from someone. And possibly Jolly west is the smoking gun. I. This is where my. I’ll put my bias on full display. But Jolly west seems at this point irrefutable that he was in the CIA and working alongside the CIA. There’s just too many incidences where he’s actively involved on projects. And this one in particular, I guess the.

The part that they. That’s very subtle in the documentary with the part that they really make, is that Jolly west is there at hey Ashbury, at that clinic, and he sets up a few different locations where basically grad students from the college he’s at, they start growing their beards out. Everyone’s looking the part. They’re looking like hippies. And really it’s just this house or a clinic where people can come and crash and they’re taking notes on them and that’s all it is. It’s supposed to be like an observation thing. They’re probably giving them drugs and they’re probably, you know, giving them some lectures.

They don’t go into a lot of that. But the, the part that’s the most interesting is that the same time that Manson shows up at this clinic is the same time that Jolly west leaves the clinic. So it’s. It’s like he set it all up. He got all the different systems in place, everything’s running, and then someone says, action, and then he leaves to go and create this barrier, right, to create a very clear separation from him and Manson. Even though it’s got Jolly west fingerprints all over. Hidden treasures and overboard moments. For me, one of the big hidden treasures is like, I didn’t really know as much how much they were trying to, like, I’ve always heard of the race war aspect, but I didn’t realize how there was a narrative of them actually trying to pin these murders on the Black Panthers.

And the extent that it seemed like they went to and how they really thoroughly, like, talked about, like, almost like gang culture. Wasn’t necessarily gang culture, what we know today, but like with bikers and the Black Panthers and how this narrative was really easy to set out there of the landscape of the times. I mean, clearly the civil rights movement people were still really charged by this. I mean, we’re talking 60s going into the early 70s. But I also wonder, I mean, I’M ignorant. I wasn’t even alive back then. Right, but did they really think there’s just three murders and writing the word pig in blood on someone’s door and on the wall that, that that was going to cause a national race war just across the, the entire country.

Everyone’s just going at it. It, it seems like something a bunch of drugged up hippies would assume that they’re. Of course it’s going to have these huge ripples because we’re in the center of it and we’re so important and like, you know, they’re, they, the egos that they probably did think that this was going to cause some kind of race war. I can see from the other end too, where this is just a very superficial face that they put on. It’s just a facade that’s also under some kind of CIA influence. I don’t know. It. It’s chaotic, right? No, I’m with you because that’s like what you think of like someone super LSD out or like even like coked out, like where they have those crazy epiphanies where they’re like, oh, you know what we could do? And it sounds great, you know, Jesus, man, I’m totally Jesus.

They’re like, yeah, you are the other, the hidden treasure. For me, the biggest one is that this will introduce normies to Jolly West. There are so many people that are like, oh, a Charles Manson documentary. I’ll check that out. Because it checks a couple boxes, right? Charles Manson just as being like this weird Satanist slash occult slash weirdo that people are obsessed with. It’s got true crime in it, it’s got Hollywood in it. So because it hits all these different points, something inside of me just wishes that this means that Jolly west becomes slightly more mainstream.

People like, oh, let me look up this Dr. Lewis Jollyton, you know, West a little bit. Let’s see what this guy’s into and, and hopefully have their mind blown because this guy, he leaves his fingerprints at the scene at so many of these MK Ultra, like Oklahoma City. I think wherever this came up and we did a noble lie, his name comes up in the JFK assassination. He’s the last one to interview Jack Ruby. He’s a guy that dosed an elephant to death on a whole host of different drugs. Just kind of messing around. So I, I think more people should know who Jolly west is and this documentary will definitely do that.

And as far as overboard moments, for me, it’s not necessarily overboard. I think when you connect the book and watching the Film. I just felt they stuck really to the mainstream narrative. Like, they do dabble and tell you some great information, like you said, Jolly west, and, and some of the connections and some of the stuff. But it seems like there’s a lot of pushback and Vince gets a lot of air time and he gets to say his side of the story. And they kind of like, even though they talked to Tom o’, Neill, they don’t give him as much shine as I would like.

And I would like him to have been the lead more into this. It seems like they were like, yeah, you know, those are kind of crazy conspiracies you have though, like. And they kept pushing back on everything he had to say. I, I don’t have a whole lot more to add to that. I think that’s probably the, the biggest thing. Again, this is 20 years of someone’s research that went into making the original book. And then at the end of it, you get roughly a 90 minute documentary. So they have to jump over a lot of stuff and there’s a lot of rabbit holes.

And I also just wondered too, man, there might be someone that’s in the back room, you know, in the editing bay, someone that’s not on the actual screen during the production of this. It’s like, yeah, no, I’m not saying that. Yeah, no, I’m not going to be associated with that at all. Because let’s not forget the scope here. We’re talking about the CIA and a lot of details of programs that have never been revealed. A lot of it’s speculation. And as the closer you get with your speculation to the truth, the more dangerous it becomes for you.

Like, I actually, there’s my paranoid tinfoil hat on a little bit. But I wonder if you’re really gonna drop this for the normies on HBO or Showtime, wherever the hell, on Netflix. There’s probably some people that are making sure that they don’t get murked over it. Let’s take a deep dive. It’s time for that. And of course, my deep dive. And I, I don’t know if you were on the same, like boat as me, but Jolly west, right. Jolly west is the key figure to me in this whole film. They talk about him in the beginning, a little bit towards the end, but like, he’s not maybe the focal point, what I would like it to be as much.

But they do talk about him pretty extensively compared, like you said, it being on Netflix and a normie kind of angle. So to just hear him out there. And I think the Thing about him is that first of all, he was born in California, got a degree at ucla. He had military service in the Air Force in World War II and the Korean War. A prominent physician and professor focusing on psychiatric stuff. Chairman of the Department of psychiatric at UCLA. Involvement with the CIA, associated with CIA’s MK Ultra program exploring mind control techniques and drug use like LSD and hypnosis.

His fingerprints are all over this. Like you said, it’s the perfect storm for where he was at the, the lsd, the mind control substances and that clinic being connected with Manson. I feel like this was the rollout of like, okay, we’ve done all these MK Ultra tests, we’ve had these like trials. Let’s have a real world experience and push it out there further. You can see this as sort of a trend too. We haven’t done any Ted Kaczynski documentaries yet, but you’ll see this same sort of pattern develop where they identify someone that is outside the norm, right? They, they identify someone that, that stands out to them and say, let’s put all of our effort into this person.

Let’s see if we can make them crack. And if we can make them crack, let’s see what happens from that. And that’s actually one of the things that this documentary, One of the the People, makes such a really good point where it’s hard to tell the difference between the CIA sitting down and being like, okay, we’re going to plot this happen and then this happens. Like choreographing this entire thing versus let’s just kick back and see what happens. Let’s just let this one guy, let’s make it so he never goes to jail and anytime he gets in trouble, we just send them right back to this free clinic.

We, we kind of like re center him with his parole officer and turn him back loose. And let’s just see what happens if we, you know, allow this to continue. The, the drugs and the mind control and everything. That’s kind of implied in this movie that maybe it’s not all choreographed. Maybe it’s just them playing, you know, like mad Science experiment out in public. Ripples and waves. To me, the main ripples and waves comes from the book, right? Like the book caused this documentary and I think you said it earlier best, this is a chance for people that would not normally go down these mind control avenues of MK Ultra.

A lot of people that are into true crime are going to check this out and they’re going to be like, MK Ultra. I kind of heard of that. You know, and then it’s getting into the mind control. It. That to me is going to be the main ripples of this. It’s going to connect a lot of these people that would not normally dive down the rabbit holes that me and you already. I think that’s one subject we both kind of like can really connect off of. His mind control, where I think that’s like a staple of the conspiratorial unit or whatever you wanted, the society or whatever we call it nowadays.

But the group that we get into, anybody that’s into conspiracies knows about MK Ultra and all of these different aspects of it, which we’ll get into in some of the other films we’re breaking down. I think the ripples really get what we would say, quote, unquote, normies. A chance to dive into our world. I’ll call it a diet. Like the mind control is like a stable in your conspiracy diet. And after a while maybe it gets a little bit bland. It’s like, oh, this again. But yeah, bro, it’s this again because it’s, it’s literally part of this entire operation.

We’re gonna, we’ll get more into that as we do some more of these documentaries. And I would agree with you that this book is probably the thing that deserves all the ripples and waves and it’s not necessarily the documentary. And I’ve seen quite a lot of criticism about this particular documentary online, especially from the hardcores, and I, and I kind of get it. I was surprised at first because I watched this going in blind and then went online and then went and looked at some of the reviews and it’s like, oh, they’ve, they ruined it. You know, chaos is so much bigger and better than any of this.

This is a total whitewash, a total psyop. I don’t know, I think it might be a little bit more nuanced. Again, they’re trying to target a normie audience and not completely lose them in the first 20, 30, 40 minutes. Right. And best case scenario is that someone watches this and they’re like, oh, wow, that wasn’t a whole lot of information, but it sure is interesting. Let me go and check out this book that it was based on then. What are the complaints right now? People normies are finding out about the book and reading the book. So I don’t, I understand some of the criticism.

I think some of it’s been very, very like, like overly biased because they wanted nine hours or 20 years of research to all happen in an hour and A half. And I honestly think that this was really well done. I don’t even know if that’s controversial or not. But like, I could show, I could send a link to this to my parents and they might check it out. And then my mom might be like, oh, maybe I’ll check out the book off that said they wanted a money. Masters of chaos, right? All right, it’s that time.

I gotta know, what do you got? Sink or swim. For me, it’s the whim all the way, man. This is a great documentary. And again, worst case scenario, they didn’t get every single detail that was covered in 20 years of research. But my mom finds out who Jolly west is, I. It’s hard to downplay how important that is. It’s a swim for me as well, because it’s not what the book is, but what film ever in the history of adaptations from book to film is the book. It’s never that. Right? We, we know that. And with the connections and being on Netflix, I don’t think they could have gone that long.

And it was great for me to have a 96 minute documentary to watch instead of like five hours. And even though there’s like a lot of details and you know that we would love. This is a great impact on society for people to be introduced, like you said, to Jolly West. That’s a swim enough for me. And what do we got up next? What do we got up next? We got a movie called Cywar, which I had never seen before and I don’t even know how it found its way on his list. I think I just like woke up in the middle of the night.

Wasn’t even. I was just like sleepwalking, added it to the list, went back to sleep. But yeah, Cy war, it’s all about psychological propaganda. Maybe it added the list. It was some Jolly west shenanigans. He slipped you a little dose and he put it in your brain. I won’t complain if someone sneaks into my house and gives me some LSD. Don’t forget to share under the docs, go to paranoidamerican.com go to killthemocking birds.com and stay tuned for the next one. This is under the Docks. Peace under the docks. Under the docks. Under the docks. Yeah, under the Docks.

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