Summary
➡ The text discusses the origin of MKUltra, a CIA project focused primarily on human mind control, detailing two diverging historical paths. One theory suggests it started with Scottish Right Freemasonry’s investment in dementia precox research in the ’30s, which uncovered similarities between adrenaline and mescaline, eventually leading to an interest in psychedelics. Another theory posits the project started in response to the Korean war, where American pilots were allegedly brainwashed by the Chinese. The document also touches on controversial themes such as cannabis-related psychosis, drawing possible connections to research into the effects of drug-induced hypnosis and sleep deprivation, pointing to figures like Jolly West and their work in these areas.
➡ The discussion revolves around the practice of stalling as a possible defense to manipulation, notable figures in MKUltra like George Estebrooks and William Joseph Bryan, and the interesting case of John McAfee. The hosts also point out the importance of proof before accepting speculative theories.
➡ The text discusses theories regarding the intersection of Jolly West and Timothy McVeigh, Jolly West and Charles Manson, book deals as potential means of payoff, intelligence officers in book publishing, and the potential use of art as a tool for money laundering. It also takes a brief look at Sidney Gottlieb’s role within the CIA and speculates about Project Bluebeam.
➡ The text discusses various conspiracy theories and historical events, such as the Second Coming of Jesus, Joe Stalin’s possible relation to Roswell, Operation MKUltra’s financing, the JFK assassination, and the LSD experiment on Tusko the elephant. It touches on the controversial character of George Hunter White and his connection to the underworld, as well as unsubstantiated theories about Project Monarch. Additionally, it critiques a book about the ‘Son of Sam’ case and its connection to the Process Church. The discourse overall is an inquiry of conspiracy theories, historical mysteries and unsolved cases.
➡ The text broadly discusses various conspiracy theories, including potential ties between Scientology, the Process Church, and Aleister Crowley, and questions about Jeffrey Epstein’s motivations, whether sexually perverse or as a tool of blackmail for bigger players. Observations are made relating to leading question interview techniques and the danger of creating false memories. The text also explores the possibility of Epstein’s actions having an occult aspect or whether aesthetic decisions are being mistaken as such, and touches on the prevalence and potential motivations behind hidden messages in media, specifically in Disney animations.
➡ The text discusses the presence of adult content in Disney animations, suggesting animators express frustration or try to include personal elements in their art. It also theorizes about Disney characters being viewed as authority figures by children, suggesting this is leveraged to increase toy sales. The text finally reflects on the emotional connection fostered between kids and their Disney-related toys, hinting at an almost spiritual dimension.
➡ The discussion explores the influence of Disney movies and marketing on viewers, introducing the concept of characters as authority figures for children. It explores theories around creating inferior live-action remakes to boost original movie sales and the role of major stars in media. Additionally, it delves into conspiracies about the 27 Club and connections between counterculture celebrities and the CIA, suggesting the possible manipulation of public consciousness.
➡ Born in the late 1930s to the 1940s, many animators who worked on Disney movies were veterans from World War II. The text also discusses possible links between the CIA and Jim Morrison, the impact of MKUltra, the benefits and drawbacks of Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP), which is regarded as a tool and can be used beneficially for better communication or manipulatively for unsavory purposes, depending upon intent. It reflects upon the development of internet and how advancement in technology is synonymous with magic to the unknowing eye.
➡ The speaker discusses astrological processes and how they can be used to convince others of your abilities. They also discuss how advanced ineptitude can seem like malice, and how this principle can apply to political situations and decisions. They explore various conspiracy theories and gauge the likelihood of some topics such as moon landings, mind programming, CIA tactics, and lost ancient civilizations like Tartaria. The speaker maintains an open mind, suggesting that some conspiracy theories (while outlandish), may contain elements of truth while others remain unproven due to lack of detailed knowledge or information.
➡ The text discusses the potential for mind control, highlighting that certain personality types, such as those with uncertainty or an engineer’s mindset, are more resistant to manipulation. The speaker explains that stalling and never taking immediate action is a useful countermeasure to manipulation attempts. The conversation also covers psychological tactics and patterns used in mind control, using examples from hypnotist Darren Brown’s work.
Transcript
Good evening, listeners. Brave navigators of the enigmatic and the concealed. Have you ever felt the pull of the unanswered, the allure of the mysteries that shroud our existence? For more than a decade, a unique comic publisher has dared to dive into these mysteries, unafraid of the secrets they might uncover. This audacious entity is paranoid American. Welcome to the mystifying universe of the paranoid American podcast. Best launched in the year 2012, paranoid American has been on a mission to decipher the encrypted secrets of our world.
From the unnerving enigma of MKUltra mind control to the clandestine assemblies of secret societies, from the aweinspiring frontiers of forbidden technology to the arcane patterns of occult symbols in our very own pop culture, they have committed to unveiling the concealed realities that lie just beneath the surface. Join us as we navigate these intricate landscapes, decoding the hidden scripts of our society, and challenging the accepted perceptions of reality.
Folks, I’ve got a big problem on my hands. There’s a company called Paranoid American making all these funny memes and comics. Now, I’m a fair guy. I believe in free speech as long as it doesn’t cross the line. And if these AI generated memes, dare to make fun of me, they’re crossing the line. This is your expedition into the realm of the extraordinary, the secret, the shrouded. Come with us as we sift through the world’s grand mysteries, question the standardized narratives, and brave the cryptic labyrinth of the concealed truth.
So strap yourselves in, broaden your horizons, and steal yourselves for a voyage into the enigmatic heart of the Paranoid American podcast, where each story, every image, every revelation brings us one step closer to the elusive truth. Welcome back. Thank you all. I love you all. And as you guys probably know, one of my favorite topics by far is mind control. And I don’t just mean MKUltra and Project Monarch and conspiracy theories in Hollywood, but just maybe having control over your own mind and understanding psychology of yourself and others.
And this might sound tangential, but one of my, I guess, favorite might not be the right word, but one of the most interesting sort of mind control personalities in American history is a guy named Jolie West. And I’ve been doing a little bit of I wouldn’t say deep dives, lots of little superficial dipping my toe in the shallow end of the pool. But it is a fascinating topic.
And while looking through some of that, I came across a really interesting character named Eric Hunley. So hey, Eric, nice to meet you. This is basically the first time we’re meeting outside of just emailing back and forth, so I wanted to just give you a chance to introduce yourself where people can find you, like, your YouTube channel anywhere else do you want them to go to and check out your work? Cool.
Hey, great to have you. I like this layout. Kind of weird looking at myself in a picture on a wall. We’ll switch it up in a second. This is your chance to be presented to the world, though. Oh, I see. I’m Eric Humley. I’m a serial YouTuber. I guess you can find me on x at eric. That’s a good place to go. I have four channels. Some of the topics today, if it’s jolly west, is going to probably breach two of the channels, which are america’s untold stories, where we cover a lot of pop culture, history and history history, including know with JFK, things like that.
But jolly west himself was covered there. But also on my original channel, which is my name, Eric hunley. And on there I cover a lot of subjects like jolly west. I interviewed tom O’Neill, who has brought jolly west back into the limelight through his book chaos about Charles manson and everything going on there. I’ve also interviewed John ronson, who knew jolly west personally and didn’t like anything Tom O’Neill said about him.
And I interview folks like chase hughes, who does actual mind control, wrote the ellipsis manual behavior panel, and a lot of body language human behavior stuff. So that’s my shtick. And here we go. Now we’re just peers. But man, that actually is something I haven’t heard before. And as I mentioned, I’m still a little bit superficial on jolly west. I’ve read some Farrell house references and a lot of paranoia magazine, but I haven’t really understood other people’s perspectives of him other than just whoever is biased.
I was reading and you mentioned John ronson. Not ronson, I’m sorry. It’s john ATAC. Okay. Because that’s the guy that snuck into bohemian grove with Alex jones. Jones, that’s correct. So you said that he didn’t have the same opinion as the other author that wrote it. Can you remind me those two names again and what their varying views are on jolly west? Sure, no problem. Tom O’Neill wrote the book chaos, huge mega bestseller.
He started the book writing for premiere magazine, and it turned into a 20 year project until he finally released it in 2019. So it’s supposed to be released, I believe, on the 40th anniversary of the killings. And it got released on the 50th anniversary of the killings. Sorry. 30 to 50. He went in deep, and part of what he went into were the ties between jolly west, david smith, and Charles manson.
But they’re not direct, so I’m not sure where it’s going. I have talked to tom recently. His next book is going to be jolly west. So he’s very interested in the specifically on west. Yes, yes. He dug in, so he’s kind of tap dancing around it because he realized he wanted to do the book on him. So he didn’t go into everything john atech. And I apologize for mixing the names up.
I do it all the time. He is most famous for exposing scientology and breaking from scientology back in the believe in the somewhere in that range. And he wrote a book called Steal a Piece of Blue Sky, which is the most stolen book, I believe, in history, from Scientologists ripping it out of libraries and everything. And he ultimately lost a lawsuit, couldn’t get it published, had to republish it later.
So he has a legacy about Scientology. This is important though, because Jolly West was one of the top enemies of Scientology. So there’s a lot to the guy. He lived fairly long, I think, into his eighty s. And he’s a mix, everything from dosing an elephant to die, from LSD, to being with Jack Ruby before he’s killed, to being at war with Scientology. He’s kind of like Sidney Gottlieb, I’m not sure if you’re familiar with.
Yeah, yeah. The dirty tricks there. Yeah. The black sorcerer, poisoner in Chief. He was like a complete hippie. So he was all about killing Castro in every know, diving suits and poisons. But then he lived in a place with no electricity, in a goat farm type of deal. Right. In an outhouse. Yeah. And it was like in Indian style. I don’t know if it’s ash rums or whatever, but very weird juxtaposition.
And it kind of makes you wonder if maybe their professional lifestyle caused a personal break within them to maybe be trying to get to nature or try to be something good. Because a lot of MKUltra and things of that sort are dark and they run in parallel paths. Was there any direct overlap between west and Gottlieb that you know of? Yes, Jolly West worked for Sidney Gottlieb. Okay.
So Gottlieb being the head essentially of like chemical division and dirty tricks and sleight of hand stuff. So through, I guess, just the normal hierarchy, he would have interacted with Wes directly. Yeah, correct. Through correspondence. This is where it gets interesting because John ATAC is quick to attack it, no pun intended, and saying that Sidney Gottlie was writing and corresponding with Jolly West, using his pen name. So ATAC is saying, Jolly West may not have known this is Sidney godlib.
Mark and I are kind of like, well, wait a minute here. Whatever. But there were some questions in there and I always want to put know the other side if there’s any question or argument. Sydney Gottlieb did use pseudonyms when he was talking with different universities and things. Like he did he have a long list of them or just like a small to? You know what, let me see if I have it in my notes.
I forgot the actual name, but a lot of this has come up in releases from MKUltra. Et cetera. And you know how MKUltra. Has found out, right? I believe it was the official story is someone just found seven boxes that hadn’t been incinerated under previous orders. Like a secretary walked into a room and oops, there’s McKay ultra close, close. Because it was incinerated. Richard Helm said, burn it.
All told sydney gottlieb specifically burn it all. And he did, except they got to have accounting. So what happened was they found the accounting records and that is what tied it together. So a lot of this gets really murky when you consider that so much of the primary source material is burned. You have to sort of extrapolate what there is based on the financial records. So I’ve got me piecing together sparse pieces, but I found some older research from the 30s through the it basically stated that the Scottish Right Freemasonry, they originally funded research into the mines, specifically dementia precox.
They were looking into schizophrenia and Alzheimer’s. It all fell under this big umbrella of dementia precox. And the Scottish Right in the 30s through the 50s, they were trying to figure out what can we focus on that would be to the betterment of mankind globally in a huge impact. So they focused in on this dementia precox and through that dementia precox research, they started to discover how similar adrenaline and mescaline were.
And it sort of sparked this new endeavor into psychedelics in particular. This combined with what they found in World War II when they went to the concentration camps and they found sort of letters about how they were using mescaline for the same things. This is my understanding of how MKUltra slowly got its start through, I guess, Project Chatter and the Navy, then Project Bluebird then essentially kind of morphs into MKUltra at some point.
Do I have that lineage fairly correct or are there any major gaps in to? I’m not familiar with any of that and I’d say that the path that I would share is different. Okay, what’s your path? The path is essentially Korea. All these people like Jolly West, et cetera, stemmed out of the North Korean pilots who talked about us committing war crimes specifically. And the argument was that they were brainwashed using Chinese techniques.
You’ve heard the Manchurian Candidate that comes from ishu anyway in that area. That is what spurred on the research of what’s going on here. Now there’s a question of whether we were trying to deprogram the pilots or actually program the pilots. And by that I mean it has come out in recent years that there have been people substantiating the claims that we did in fact try to release plague bombs and things like that in that, you know, we did some dirty tricks.
But that is the spawning of Jolly West is looking into soldiers and deprogramming or maybe programming them to see what was happening. Now, I’m not denying all the other research you just stated, I’ve just never really heard of it or even looked into it. And the lineage for the Jolly West MKUltra path has been that, although it has falled under the wing of Operation Paperclip from the Nazi materials that we picked up in World War II, not only Nazis, but also whatever, the Japanese as well.
And again, this is just paraphrasing from things that I read and only slightly retained on. One of the things that stood out to me about Jolly West was that it seemed when he got involved with basically doing this, analyzing, I think it was like a serial killer at first. It was somebody okay, yes. Can you repeat just the highlights of that story? Yeah. Jimmy Shaver is a very, very tragic story.
He was an airman in I don’t know if it’s Lacklan yeah, Lacklan Air Force Base in Texas. And he had just horrible headaches. All the supposedly and this is a problem they don’t have documentation for this stuff, but he went in, in theory to see if he could be tested on to find out if it would help his headaches or whatever was going on. The claim is that he was fed a bunch of LSD from Charlie West, possibly hypnotized, we don’t know.
But ultimately and if this is on YouTube, I’m trying to be careful with my language. I don’t know. They’ll be fine. I can do whatever we need to make sure it gets posted. A three year old child was brutally murdered, and he came just kind of walking out, just like a zombie, blood everywhere, completely red handed, so to speak, and had no recollection. Nothing going on. And the theory is that Jimmy Shaver may have been activated or turned on.
Now, can’t say specifically with Jolly West. But coincidentally, Jolly West became an ardent opposer of capital punishment right around that time, and Jimmy Chamber was executed for the crime. The reading between the lines without making any insinuations, but that maybe there was guilt behind what he had done. It could well be. That is why I pointed out that for the rest of his life, he was a huge fighter against that.
And that’s why I want to get the whole parallels. Sidney Gottlieb was a hippie. Jolly west was anti capital punishment. We testified for Patty Hurst. He was very much in the mind control scheme and didn’t want to kill in the end, I think. And I think it’s hard to think these things like, let’s say that he did do it and things got out of hand. I don’t know if he necessarily intended to do it.
It doesn’t make it less wrong or right. But if this was some kind of a crazy side effect because Jimmy Shaver might have had some sort of deep psychosis or whatever, I don’t know. It’s a weird thing. And again, I’m not trying to excuse him. I’m just trying to give out possibilities, sort of like I don’t know if you’ve heard of cannabis related psychosis. I haven’t, I don’t think, no.
Yeah. Can you explain cannabis and what is it, cannabis related or cannabis induced? That’s a good question because it doesn’t happen to everybody. It’s not universal, just like anything. But there are direct ties with cannabis and psychosis, and one of the people I interviewed, actually, Dr. Hines on my channel. We started as one interview, and I found out that he was actually a victim of cannabis related psychosis, was institutionalized, has been working to get his life back for a while.
And I’ve also interviewed Dr. Shaham Dass psychiatrist out of England, and he works in the crime units. And he said, yeah, there is definitely a relationship between cannabis and psychosis. Now, what I don’t know for certain is if it’s a matter of if somebody’s chemical makeup already means that they’re susceptible of being a paranoid schizophrenic. You know how psychosis can be treated, but like a personality disorder really can’t, right? If you’re a psychopath, pretty much a psychopath or narcissist, whatever.
But paranoid schizophrenic, they do have medications and different things that I think can help, and it would make sense that some people have a bad reaction. I find it personally fascinating because I grew up mocking Reefer badness, but just think it’s possible that there’s a little bit of truth to that. I would also argue if you look at modern cannabis well, I’m 53. That’s not the same weed I grew up with, right? I grew up with skunk weed.
Whatever it was, it was not it was not like the stuff now where they’re, like, saying, this is 10%, 20%, 30%. It’s just almost like it’s being refined to such a degree that it’s becoming a hardcore substance. There was another, again, paraphrasing. I think this was a quote from Jolly West where he was mentioning that he was either the expert or he just liked bringing people all the way to the edge of madness.
I’m paraphrasing this, but I think it was in one of the interviews originally when he started interviewing that airman that ended up murdering the kid. And at the end of that, they were asking him all the drugs that he’s tried for inducing hypnosis, but he said that the single most powerful element was just sleep deprivation and that all the drug being administered kind of paled in comparison to just making sure that someone didn’t maintain a consistent sleep schedule.
And that always reminds me of the military, because that’s kind of what the military is, you know, like your own opinion on this. I’m not looking for hard facts, but with Jolly West, do you think any of his research in turn influenced military training as a whole, or do you think that he was so compartmentalized that it didn’t reach all the way up to that level? Well, I was in the army, and I mean, they do call it basic indoctrination training.
Indoctrination is mind control. That’s literally the meaning of it. Did his research influence maybe? I mean, sleep deprivation? Yes. That is among the deadliest things of all. They’ve done comparison studies between DUI and sleep deprivation. And somebody who’s sleep deprived is far more dangerous than even somebody who’s very drunk because you’re clicking on and off. You’re just in, out, whatever. At least the drunk maybe has a degree of COVID at least that’ll wear off over time while you’re awake.
But I guess sleep deprivation doesn’t wear off until you’re done. Yeah. And again, both are bad folks. I’m not saying one is okay. It’s just sleep deprivation. Absolutely. And we use that ourselves, I think before Jolly West, even, because that’s a common technique for extracting information from prisoners, it’s relatively know. It’s like one where you’re not physically touching them, abusing them, people aren’t doing it. So just bugging them and keeping them awake.
Keeping them awake. Keeping does, you know, really destroy and gets the senses weird. You don’t know what’s day, what’s night. That’s another factor, too. So we’ve known all of this, I think, since before Jolly West. There’s been a number of other books and I guess just conspiracy theories in general that mention Jolly West by name. There’s a couple that I’ve never really found specific evidence that’s conclusive of, but one of the main ones that I’ve heard is that Jolly West either interviewed or was in town, coincidentally with Timothy McVeigh after they had him locked up.
I believe this is from a book called Aberration of the Heart of the Real that was published by Trinday maybe like a decade ago. Have you ever heard anything about Jolly West and McVeigh with any sort of credibility? I have heard it in our comments section a lot. I don’t know that we found any specific proof of that and I don’t like to get into it, but trying.
Day is an interesting publishing house. We’ve done an episode called CIA in the media. I encourage you to check that might I would just encourage you to check that out. I’m going to say it. You can just blink once or two. Are you saying Chris Milligan and Trinday might be intelligence related somehow? Well, his father sure is. Okay. I think he’s pretty candid about that. But yeah, that is actually true that his dad was intelligence officer, which when it comes to book publishing, feels like this ongoing coincidence that there’s lots of intelligence in books that get this is on a completely side tangent.
I have another show called Occult Disney where we rewatch all the old classic Disney animations and do deep dives on the original fairy tales or children’s books they were based on. And it is well over 50% of these books that we all have come to know and read to our kids and had them read to us. A lot of them came from intelligence families. Maybe just a coincidence, but it’s very interesting on how often intelligence and entertainment and education all sort of intertwine.
There’s another link to Jolly West that just came up recently that someone just told me in an interview. So I don’t even have a book or research to point to. But with the concept of chaos right. The Charlie Manson murders. Jolly west seems interestingly. Not named very often. Compared to him being the one that was sort of the go to guy for, like, all these sort of I guess I wouldn’t say paranormal, like, mind control related situations.
Why was he or am I misinformed that he was kind of, like, isolated from Manson as it was happening, although it feels like he was in hay ashbury around that time, was he not? So it feels like he would have been a very convenient person to look into Manson. Yes, but here’s the have, and that’s part of what ATAC is going or I think it’s David Smith or Roger Smith.
I can’t remember the name, but Dr. Smith is who actually was running the clinic that Manson and the people went to, and I believe he was a student of jolly west, and he knew jolly west, but that doesn’t mean that jolly west is messing with the people directly. I don’t even know they could have crossed in the hallway. Sure they’re in the same location, but at that point, Jolly West is kind of up the ladder, I believe a bit more and I don’t know if he was a bit more administration, if he was directly involved or not, but unless you prove, hey, they’re in the same you’ve got to be really careful with some of what you’re saying.
And back to trine day and the CIA books, because I do want to close the loop on that, because it’s very interesting. You do realize that one of the top ways to get a hold of a story is to buy the rights to it. And that is a very convenient means to paying off people, is with a book deal. And you see it a lot like DeSantis just got a book deal recently.
Go figure. Hunter Biden got a pretty substantial one, too, that they didn’t disclose the amount of. Yeah, but that is a great and you sit there and you go, how in the world did fill in the blank figure get a $2 million, $4 million book deal when you know, okay, you’re in publishing, right? A best selling book is 10,000. That’s really good for a publisher. A blockbuster is, like, 100,000.
That’s oprah Book club numbers. I’m not kidding. And you’re like, okay, so how do you get millions out of that? Books aren’t making millions of dollars, especially when you consider the royalty kickback is $3 on a $20 book. That’s a great point. Yeah. Even if you were to sell 2 million books, you’re not making 2 million off of that. So, yeah, some of these book deals I would argue, too, without going too much of a tangent with the art sales, too, where you’ve got controversial figures, not just politicians, but controversial figures, and all of a sudden they start selling art for tens of thousands plus of dollars.
It seems like just money shuffling in interesting ways. Did I tell you we have CIA in the Art World part four of our series. No. So I’ve heard of the CIA, maybe, and this is I have like bits and pieces of it, but that they were funding modern and abstract art and then also the brutalist designs where they were taking from like Soviet Russia, they started bringing that over into the States as well.
How true is any of that? Quite a bit. Quite a mean. I’d have to look it up to get back to it because it’s been a minute. But yes, they funded a lot of this. And also I would argue that art is a great money laundering tool and you can keep it outside of the banks. A lot of them keep them on these barges in the middle of the ocean so they adhere to international tax laws.
I guess it seems like once you get to a certain level and the Swiss bank account and the offshore bank accounts just aren’t doing it, then you kind of elevate into the art world. Is there a world beyond the art world when it comes to money laundering? I’m not sure. But think about it. Since art itself, the value is subjective. It in of itself is perfect for money laundering.
I mean, I give you this painting, I say it’s worth a million dollars. Well, now I’ve just cleaned up a million dollars. I think we’re in the wrong business, man. I don’t know. You’re the artist. You have talent. You do comic books and stuff, right? Yeah, well, now all my time goes into the publishing aspect. So it’s funny, once you get to a certain size, you no longer get to do the thing that you started doing.
Or at least that’s my experience. So the overlap between west and Manson is tangential best only because he might have maybe been a mentor or a teacher of the person that was actually interviewing Manson. Is this sort of the same as Sidney Gottlieb was just cutting the checks and therefore he might not have been directly involved with Ewan Cameron’s work or any of the other doctors that were ultimately being funded by the CIA? Or do you think that Gottlieb had a more active role in any of think I think Gottlieb is pretty much hands on.
I mean, if the guy is worrying about wetsuits with poisons, that’s pretty micromanagey for an administrator. He seemed to be above and beyond just a straight administrator. And we’re talking about his various plots to take out Castro. Right. That was one of he just I forget, I mean, they called him the Poisoner in Chief, right? They were going to put thalamite in his shoes in hope that it would make his beard fall out.
And then if his beard fell out, he would lose that machismo aura and people would think he was like Effeminate and then they wouldn’t support Justin Trudeau. That’s funny. This is another one that gets into the outskirts of the theory. So I fully believe all of the poison seashells and the thalamite in the shoes, all that seems pretty believable. Well, there’s records of it. I think that’s all been put out with the church committee.
Right. And there was another one in there that said that they considered it but never actually acted on it. And I apologize. I’m not even going to get the name right, so I’m going to try the name. But they were going to light off a bunch of fireworks outside of Cuba and sort of stage, like, the Second coming of Christ in a way. And it was a precursor to what people refer to now as Project Bluebeam.
Are you familiar with the bluebeam theories? Yeah, I’ve heard it. I haven’t dug, so I can refresh the very superficial versions of it. But bluebeam states that essentially NASA fill in the blank. CIA, NASA, whatever, is going to project these realistic holograms of an alien invasion in order to get the world sort of know the one world government. They’re like, we’re all in this together. Let’s fight this foreign threat.
But that at the same time that the CIA was coming up with these know, Castro assassination attempts, they were also thinking, if we can stage the Second Coming of Jesus, then that will sort of disprove the communist mindset that God’s not real and that that will cause the public to turn against them. Although they say they just never pulled it off because it wasn’t practical. Although I feel like if they had the technology, it might have been like, let’s at least give it a shot.
But I don’t know. Well, what’s ironic is there are some material coming out that Joe Stalin might have been related to what happened in New Mexico. Roswell because he was so fascinated by War of the Worlds and how dumb Americans were so paranoid by a radio show that and I haven’t gotten into the details of it, but he could have been involved in some of those discoveries of what was going on there.
That’s absolutely wild. And just to tack on to that, another unsubstantiated conspiracy theory that’s come up on World of Worlds, that I find it interesting, at least, is that Orson Wells may have been knowingly or unknowingly funded by the Rockefellers and that the War of the Worlds was really sort of a test on how many people will go into a frenzy, how many people will believe this. What would be the impact? The same way that the CIA would just say, like, hey, if we just spray botulism off at sea and wait for it to blow inwards, how many people would affect how long will it take to spread? Let’s just find out.
And it’s a great point that you brought up before that. All we really know of MKUltra are the financial records, like the documents who got paid when a lot of that being redacted anyways. And I guess. That might have caused me to superficially consider MKUltra more as like a financing wing of all this. And I guess my interpretation please correct me if you’ve got a different view on MKUltra.
Came out of Operation Paperclip or was part of that. And then under MKUltra. You had things like Operation Midnight Climax, right? George Hunter white. That was one of the very first ones, right? The safe houses in San Francisco. In New York. Which is a great, great mean. Just think about this guy. Such a pervert type of job, just sitting there, watching people, doing things on acid. You’re like, really? And this is research.
Where do you get that? Well George Hunter White is a very interesting character because he did I believe had some personal correspondence with Sidney Gottlieb because he was like the man on the ground, the boots on the ground that could sort of operate both between government and with the CD underbelly. But there’s also documentation that George Hunter White was involved with a bust of Jack Ruby at some point and I don’t know how much more that connection goes beyond he was involved in a bust that Jack Ruby got kind of caught up in.
But there’s another connection here right between Jolly West and Jack Ruby and perhaps George Hunter White and Jack Ruby. So he could have sort of been on that radar for quite a while not know when Oswald got taken know Richard Nixon knew Jack Ruby. I didn’t know that he recognized yeah it’s if you read about it actually Roger Stone talked about know Nixon had told him but essentially Nixon recognized Ruby because Ruby had done work for them when they were busting up the Mafia type of stuff.
Remember when the congress was going after the Mafia? Well, Nixon was involved. Bobby Kennedy was involved. Ruby, apparently was a useful informant type, and that’s like he knew all the cops in Dallas. If you’re going through Dallas, ruby’s probably connected some way or another in that mix. Plus, he got into a ton of trouble just pistol whipping. Just he was a really bad customer service is what we’re I mean, he ran like a strip club and had a vicious temper.
Bad dude. We actually have a show on Jack Ruby on America’s unto Stories. Oh I’m going to absolutely devour mean I wanted to talk about Jolly West but JFK is another it feels like a topic that you could spend an entire lifetime devouring every little detail and still not even get half of the story and partly because it’s so complicated. The other part is know all of the records that would really tell you anything substantial are sort know nonexistent at this point.
So I’m going to assume you’re fairly well versed on JFK at least up to the par that I am probably a lot more because my know on the show Mark Robert literally was writing with Stone. Oh wow I absorb through Osmosis. You have, right. I didn’t actually even have that much interest in it, truthfully. But it is interesting as it’s being presented on our show. But Mark is the complete expert on this.
Well, regarding the research community, I am learning too, with the audience. I’m almost a good foil with the audience. Okay. I would love to unpeel that onion as well, because that’s a really deep one. Another one with Jolly West. You mentioned Tusco, the elephant that he killed. I’ve also read that there’s dispute on whether that elephant died from the LSD or probably not. They started giving up barbiturates and amphetamines and just like everything, right? Yeah.
What happened was crazy ass experiment, but because elephants have something that’s called musk, I believe, where they go into just like this rampage state and lose all control, he was testing to see if LSD could inspire the musk state as an experiment versus people. And he got the dosing wrong, so he figured, I guess it was like if a 200 pound person, 200 micrograms is what you’re going to have, an elephant is, what, two tons or something.
But instead of saying ten times the dose, he did like 100 times the dose. It’s like, well, let’s move the decibel points over. And the elephant went I mean, just collapsed and just went out. And then yes, that’s when they started to just pump in, amphetamines, this, everything possible to revive it. And yeah, there is the question. We don’t know if it was actually the acid that killed them or trying to save them, did it, which it probably was them trying to save them.
I mean, the whole thing sounds like complete disturbing incompetence. Yeah, just poke them some of that. Oh, that didn’t work. Poke them with some of that without even maybe waiting very long in between. It sounds like if they would have just let the elephant work through the horrifically overdose of LSD, it could have come out. But I guess we’ll never know, right? Because Tusco died in that. So MKUltra is fairly well documented enough that we can say it’s not just complete conspiracy theory Fodder, although there are some ancillary projects that kind of get lumped into that.
So if you just go into, like a conspiracy theory forum or a website and say Project MKUltra, almost always someone will follow it up with Project Monarch, which is sort of, as far as I know, not documented, but made popular through the work of Fritz Springmeyer and Cisco Wheelers. And they’ve got this long book called the Illuminati Formula to create an undetectable mind control slave. I think that’s have you heard of Project Monarch? Are you familiar with it? No.
And that’s the thing, is it’s like there’s a weird I hate to say we have a saying or what we like to say is, if everything’s a conspiracy, nothing’s a conspiracy. So I want to be very careful. And Mark actually is very careful. Don’t we hear different things? But we hear everything, dude. I mean everything. You’ll be shocked how many things there are out there. I don’t know if monarch is real.
I don’t know how deep it gets. But then when I start hearing illuminati, I’m going, oh, okay. Because it’s like we’re taking a conspiracy pie and putting it all together and it gets really hard to follow. I’m going to go tangential for a second to tell you where I am. There’s a book about the Son of Sam, and it’s by a guy named Maury Terry. I believe it’s called beyond evil.
This is where he links it to the Process Church. Right. There you go. So it goes from Son of Sam to Sons of Sam to occult to the Process Church to Charles Manson to Cheryl Tate, or hold on, hold on, hold on. Back up. And it is a, I think, poorly sourced book in what he’s doing. And part of what made me draw this conclusion is if you watch the Netflix series Sons of Sam and you see Maury Terry interviewing David Berkowitz, you will notice that it is a shit interview.
And he is literally asking closed ended questions and he’s feeding him the whole time rather than just asking open ended questions. It’s like, so you didn’t kill such and such, right? No, I did. You did do that, right? Yes. That is a problematic thing. So I’m personally hesitant to go too far down any path without a ton of research, and that takes a ton of time. So my default is going to be probably didn’t happen, probably isn’t the case.
And the only reason is because I feel like if you just say probably not and then it causes a burden of proof to come about, it’s going to be better information. This is definitely not the direct link. I don’t have any that direct. I’ve heard the very same theories where essentially it’s process. Church Manson, sharon Tate satanism. That’s kind of like the very broad strokes of that. Although there’s been lots of connections that have seemed very credible between, say, like, Alastair Crowley and Thalema and Oto and then the Church of Scientology, and then from the Church of Scientology and that whole you mean Parsons Hubbard and Crowley? Parsons Hubbard.
And then from there you’ve got a whole bunch of other sort of spring off. Like encon car is sometimes grouped into all of this. A lot of the do what thou wilt or I am my own god sort of mentality branches from that. And I believe that that’s where some of the Process Church is because Aleister Crowley somehow influenced these new agey Sciency religions. Process spun off of Scientology.
But it’s a weird I don’t really know. I haven’t dug deep into it. And you were also talking about, I guess, like, leading questions, like a really horrible interviewer will be like, so red is your favorite color, right? Why is that? It’s like you kind of gave them the question and the answer, and you just have them elaborate. It reminds me, again, a conspiratorial of the false memory syndrome I had on my show.
And I’ve taken a lot of heat for that one. Oh, shit. What kind of heat? What did you say that got you heat? It’s what Ken said. Ken was the FBI agent in charge of sex crimes at Quantico during the Satanic Panic. And he is the main FBI guy who said, look, there’s no proof of this. You’re talking about people having underground caverns, but there’s no underground like the Big Martin preschool is one of the exactly.
All of these. And he was saying that in all these cases. And he’s literally the guy in Quantico in like the central clearing house, he’s like, can’t prove any of this. None of it. There was not a single piece of proof which people didn’t like to, um anyway, that’s a few months back. It’s Ken lanning. We went into that and you could just have some fun in my comments and you will find out that people are very upset by him because obviously he’s enabling monsters.
And know, a lot of the comments I thought were very interesting because they’re like saying, is he denying Epstein? No. Sometimes the response you get, and that’s part of why I get a little nervous when I get into the conspiracy element, is lots of yes. I mean, one of my favorite things about YouTube comments is know what it lacks in knowledge, it has uncertainty. But yeah, I would hear everything in there and a lot of them is like, because he said he could not find any conclusive proof.
He did not say that crimes did not happen. He helped put away hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people, quite literally, personally. But he was saying that there’s a Satanic panic. It really was a bad thing and things got spun out of control. That’s not denying Jeffrey Epstein, that’s not denying other people. And it’s a very fascinating issue to see. And he was not a happy camper either.
But the response well, Epstein is an interesting one to throw in there because I’ve never necessarily heard Epstein related to Satanic panic in particular. Although I guess the conspiracy theory game of connect the dots, just like you described before, process Church and Manson and Tate and Illuminati, right? Like that’s the connect the dots game. But the connect the dots for this one, it actually seems that it would have been like Epstein connected to Clinton and then Clinton connected to Spirit Cooking because of the connection to Maria Bromovich.
And it seems like that is sort of like this QAnon and the adrenochrome wave is kind of this next iteration of Satanic panic in a way. Do you see it like that? Or is that just I mean, I’ve had somebody who claims that he helped put together the Psyop that is QAnon. He claims it’s a Psyop. I think there’s something to that. Look, Jeffrey Epstein, I have maybe a slightly different opinion about him than a lot of people.
I don’t think he’s a good guy. I think he’s a horrible guy, obviously, and I think he took advantage of underage females, et cetera. But I personally don’t think it was Jeffrey Epstein’s personal perversion. I think that Jeffrey Epstein was an operative collecting blackmail on anybody and everybody he could for much larger players. That’s just my opinion. That’s why his sentences were a joke. That’s why he disappeared.
That’s why he was shut down, is because he was collecting blackmail. Look at the lists and find and tell me why it is that Ghislaine, Maxwell, they could only come up with four primary accusers for Adam, all of that. They could only come up with four. So she is there for every single person that’s involved. Right. But they can only come up with four. Perhaps they can only come up with four that weren’t with the bigger names at the same time as them, which could lead into bigger trouble.
Like, let’s say everybody else is with Jeffrey Ghislaine and famous person that we give a shit about at the same time. Oh, can’t have them as a witness next. So that, I kind of feel, was Epstein. I feel like he was literally a honey trap. Do you think there was anything occult related to, like, with the little St. James layout, with the Zoro Ranch layout? And the reason I ask this is another just a wild tangent conspiracy theory, but the same way that Parsons and Hubbard were trying to redo Babylon working in the middle of the desert, jeffrey Epstein has on his zoro.
Ranch. Sort of an arrangement that looks very similar to some of the diagrams that was outlined in the Moonchild Ritual by Crowley, that they were emulating and that he was basically trying to create this swarm of little Epstein’s. Right. Like a whole bunch of little Epstein seeds that he wanted to make like 20 or 30 versions of himself. Have you ever heard anything that would even make it seem credible that there was an occult aspect to this? Or you think it’s entirely intelligence blackmail? Well, you’re talking about like Jack Parsons sex, magic and all.
Yeah. The Jack Marsons and Elrond Hubbard were specifically doing Babylon working where they were going to take a pregnant woman. And according to Crowley, for the first, like, three months, first trimester, the fetus had no soul. And it was therefore the concept of like an alchemical homunculus, like a shell without a soul waiting for one. Then if you go out into the middle of the desert, there’d be entities that aren’t latched to other bodies, and you’re basically like, hey, you’re looking for a body? Here’s a prime one.
It’s right for the taking, and you’re trying to kind of attract it. It’s like you’re going fishing for entities out there and that that was going to be the Babylon working ritual. They claim it didn’t work. Parsons claimed that Marjorie Cameron might have been the homunculus they summoned. But the tie here. Is that the Epstein Zoro Ranch? Just the configuration visually. Oh, it looks like this. There’s nothing beyond that.
But it seems also with the little James like the rumors and the stories about underground labyrinths and these interesting almost like Turkish bathhouse styles to like is it just an aesthetic? You think that Epstein just really liked the way that looked? Or could there have been something beyond the occult aspect to well, you talk about that, I’m thinking of Jack Parsons Hubbard and all I could think is drugs are good.
Back to Epstein on that, I don’t know. I really don’t know. It’s like, does he believe in it? Maybe? I never hung out with the dude, never really studied that deeply. But I do think there is a factor of, as you put it, aesthetics. If you’re going to go into a club and it’s like the Night Forbidden club and a Gothic club, then you’ll probably be putting occult type symbology things like then there in quite often and you might not even know what the hell they mean.
Just a, this looks cool, or you hire people who are like minded and they are believers in that and so then they start to decorate this. Now you said you’re huge on Disney, right? Yeah, I worked at Disney for ten years. Yeah. Okay. So I’m pretty convinced that there were some animators who were screwing with Walt. And there’s a lot of Easter eggs that people have come up with, know, putting in phallic symbols and different things throughout the yeah, I’ve done deep dives on all of yeah.
Okay, so now a question on that is, is this because they’re believers and this is a subliminal mind control experiment to try to poison America? Or is this a labor dispute saying, fuck you Walt, I’m going to be putting in I’m flipping you off behind your back every time you turn because you were forced to rehire me due to a Supreme Court dispute or labor dispute. He was not well loved by the animators, for sure.
And I honestly get hate on this one too, because I tend to think it’s not MKUltra mind control intentional. If anything. I’ve worked with animators for ten plus years on Disney property and I do understand the frustration. Specifically, I grew up and I worked in the digital age, right? So the animation I was doing was like in Flash or it was in Toon Boom Studio or something, where it was a little bit easier than the old school way of sitting down and drawing Mickey like 4000 times in a row, just slightly different one after the other.
So there’s definitely one aspect of like, I’m going to draw booby in this frame you know what I mean, and maybe get away with it. So there’s this part, but also if you look at the Disney animators, when they weren’t working for Disney, they weren’t drawing like Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse cartoons and stuff on the side. A lot of them were doing pinup art, especially the ones that were really good at character art.
They did that from figure drawing. And figure drawing tended to also just be in demand for calendars and advertisements. So you got these guys that when they’re not on Disney property drawing children’s cartoons, they’re drawing Voluptuous pin ups, essentially, and then they go back. So I think it would be hard for some of them to turn that off. Also, there’s some Disney movies where they go a little bit over, like Jessica Rabbit maybe is an example.
But there’s many other ones. Great Mouse Detective Too has some pretty raunchy style animation for that. But I think that’s just like adult men blowing off steam a little bit. That’s what I’m wondering. Yeah. And that was kind of my theory. Between that and also just saying, up yours. That’s definitely part of it. Although the ones that get the most credit, I guess, is The Little Mermaid had the Phallic castles in the background, but that was just on the VHS box cover art.
And then they recalled that and redid it and put it back out. And the little boner scene, I think that one might still be in it. That one is the one that is the most on the fence for me. The other ones, I kind of go by the company line, don’t hate me too much in the comments, but that The Lion King. They jump and the word sex spells out that one’s been decently explained away that the department that started on Lion King was the SFX department.
And really it says SFX and not sex. And I would just put a feather on that cap and say that if they really wanted to embed sexual images and destroy the moral fabric of the watchers, it’s probably not going to be spelling the word out like just throw a booby out there. Just do another Jessica rabbit. There’s the Aladdin one where apparently he says, all teenagers take off your clothes.
Although you kind of have to know what that is you’re supposed to hear and then hear it. And then you might hear those because that’s like the Satanic panna implanting false memories, possibly if you say, don’t you hear this? And then you can’t unhear it because now you’re framing the sounds to match what it’s supposed to be. Do you see the white and gold dress? Or someone says, oh, you see the black and blue dress.
The other one that has the most credit because it’s undeniable was the rescuers. But that one’s been explained away insufficiently, but that it was not in the theatrical lease according to Disney, which would be nearly impossible to solve unless you got your hands on the theatrical film reel of the Rescuers, which likely isn’t going to happen. But that when they were distributing it for release on Laserdick. In particular, one of the third party distributors, Disney, claims they inserted the naked lady in the window as the rescuers are like flying down in a city scene.
There’s like a woman that’s undressing herself for literally, like three frames of it. But you wouldn’t have ever seen it unless you had the laser disc. And you put the laser disc on pause in advanced frames because the frames which those scenes were in, they would have just been glossed right over at the 30 frames per second rate that was showing back on the laser disc. So that one was absolutely a hidden Easter egg.
But Disney never admitted that it happened within their crew. They say it was like this third party. So those are the ones. But man, I really do think that The Little Mermaid is probably the most on the line there. But you don’t have to read into this. You can go back and watch Great Mouse detective. You can go back and watch Who Framed Roger Rabbit. And they’ve kind of got some of these overt references to, like, Who Framed was adult.
That was for adults. So what on mean? In fairness, that was touchstone if recall and correct. Although, I mean, it would be impossible to not see as marketed to kids. It had like, all of the kids favorite cartoons and ones. But that’s like Camel cigarettes technically for adults. Yeah, you’re going to pick up the kids too, but who cares? It very much, I feel was an adult cartoon.
She was a sex pot character. Everything about it. So that one, I don’t know if it’s completely fair because it was supposed to be a little racy. So I would say that The Great Mouse Detective had an even spicier scene of, like a vaudeville dancer coming out and making insinuations that she wants to have sex with you. But it was a very small moment, and The Great Mouse Detective never really got the same sort of like mass appeal as some of the other ones.
So the Disney thing a little bit. I actually feel that the real Disney programming pulling this back into influence and persuasion. I’ve got this theory I’ve been developing that I’m sure is not unique because other people have come up with this, but that a lot of people joke about, oh, it’s a Disney movie. They’re going to kill Bambi’s mom in the first 15 minutes. Well, going back and rewatching all of the classic Disney movies one by one, we’re up to Beauty and the Beast right now.
Basically every single movie absolutely shows you, okay, here’s a kid or some kind of a juvenile that you can relate to as the watcher. Here’s their authority figures, the parent, the guardian, whatever. And then somehow they get separated. Either the parents or the guardians die. The kid gets lost. They get kidnapped. The parents get kidnapped, all of these scenarios. But what’s happening? And again, reading into it almost from an NLP maybe level, which I want to get into in a second, but you’re watching this as a kid, and mom and dad, they go off and do adult things, and you’re just being babysat by a Disney movie for the next 70 minutes.
And you see this character you relate to, oh, my God, that character no longer has parents. They no longer have anyone to look out for them. They’re on their own. And then the first thing that comes along is this cute little Disney IP character. And it’s like, hey, you can trust me. I’m going to protect you. I’m your new guy. I’m your sidekick. And what’s happening in the mind of an eight year old or a seven year old that’s still forming is like, mom and dad are gone.
They literally left me in this physical reality I’m at. They’re nowhere to be found. Bad things are happening. Now. This character is kind of my new pal. They’re my new authority figure. Long story short, you’re walking around in Walmart with mom and dad, and you see that new authority figure on a shirt or on a TV or on a little toy, and it’s like, that’s my friend. I want that even to the point where if those characters instill some sort of a moral lesson or just like a command, next time you see me, kids, buy me, that almost takes precedent over the actual authority figure because your real parent abandoned you.
And this new little the little Woody, the Toy Story, he didn’t abandon you. And this gets even more and more pronounced, especially with a Toy Story where now they say, not only are these Disney IPS kind of like a proxy to an authority figure that you can trust, but they have souls. And not only do they have souls, but this Woody that’s a toy in the movie. You can go and buy Woody at the store, and if you buy that Woody, it’ll have a soul, and it’ll be like, it’ll know you and learn you.
Because even in the final movies of Toy Story, they’re going to recycle the toys and they need to go and save them because that Woody is the one that knows you and that it understands your soul and you understand it. And if that Woody gets incinerated, you can’t just go to the store and buy another Woody, because that one isn’t sort of like in Booed with your soul and your understanding.
But I think that that is very real version of Disney programming marketing. And it’s not like we’re going to turn you on and be MKUltra sex slave because Belle starts singing Be our guest. But the next time you see Belle on a t shirt or a toy your kids are gonna, like, trust that more than you saying. You don’t need that. They’re like, no, I do need it, because that’s my authority figure.
Isn’t that really Joseph Campbell and Hero’s Journey, though? If you break it down and I’m not trying to be mean, but I’m just know the standard story template of the hero of, like, Moses, it goes down the know, throughout time. The story where you lose the parents, you lose it, you’re isolated. Look at Star Wars, Luke Skywalker, he loses his family, his aunt, his uncle, all of these things.
So I’m not saying what you’re saying is wrong. I’m just wondering if that might be a happy coincidence. Like, what if they were doing the Hero’s Journey storyline and then they realized, oh, my, and we have this added benefit that now we can put a product in there, and through time, the two are merging together. And obviously marketing becomes such a major figure of that. For example, have you ever heard of Rudolph the red nose reindeer? Yeah, of course.
And you know the source of that, right? I don’t know. What was it like, Coca Cola? Montgomery Ward? It was a Montgomery Ward marketing campaign for the what were they selling? I don’t even remember. The funny thing is, I have the original book that was that I’d have to look it up again. But it was an advertising campaign that became part of culture. Now, you heard the same about our conventional vision of Santa Claus, too.
We know. Like the Coca Cola Santa Claus. Yeah. So I’m just saying it’s a weird parallel. And if you are making this because I don’t know if Walt Disney he was a sharp dude, sure, but I don’t know that he put all this together. I could just sort of see, like, hey, we’re doing this, and this is happening. Holy cow, look at what’s going on here. Let’s see if we can push that button a little more.
Let’s see if we can eke out that sale a little bit more. Because they did other crazy, brilliant things, like creating false scarcity by it’s in the vault so you have a window of time to buy the VHS. And I know this because my wife is a librarian and library director, so she would have to buy enough copies of the movies when they were out of the vault because then they go back in the vault in order to keep the library collection up and things like that.
I just want to tack on this one last Disney conspiracy theory since you mentioned the vault. This one, I feel, is true enough in just, like, de facto it’s happening, whether or not it’s the conspiracy theory. But the live action remakes are intentionally being released even with everyone knowing they’re inferior because it drives more sales and viewers to the original. So someone goes and sees the new Lion King with the kids and kids, you.
Know, the original one was way better. When we get home we’ll watch that one and that in itself could kind of like spike the sales and they could be like, oh, by the know the new Tom Hanks pinocchio live action is out but we’re going to release the pinocchio out of the vault with a special edition. Again, I don’t know. It’s a funny no, I’ve never heard that before and I really like that theory.
It’s something that I hope you can find economist or somebody who can actually study their sales because maybe you’re onto something that answers a completely baffling question. Why would you ever release something that is failing and to do it consistently over and over and over. Nobody does this intentionally. There has to be a motivation behind and even if it’s to shape culture to your thoughts, that doesn’t work in the business world.
You don’t stay up as a corporation by deliberately failing to prove a political message. Now going to like Bud Light for example. Yeah, this is a good one. There could be a hidden cause in there that Mark and I explored which is if you need to fire a whole ton of people and shift your operations and scale them down, sometimes this could be done because of a product failure.
You got to force someone to fall on their sword over a bad decision that they were forced to. Well no, you need to lay off 15,000 bottlers. Well, if the sales are down now all of a sudden you have a reason to do massive layoffs then you bring in new labor at a lower rate. That’s possible. And it has the side benefit of giving you a super high right, that’s yeah.
Now we’re talking new world. Well, all of the ESG is about quote, vivek Ramaswami. I do like his book. Woke incorporated. I have some issues with him as a candidate but his book is very good and he brings up a good point. What would, let’s say, help a Coca Cola customer? What would actually be something that’s beneficial to society that they could do well they could make it taste just as good with less sugar and nothing artificial.
Right, but that’s hard. How about they do diversity day? That’s their bit. That’s good for society. So all the ESG stuff is a nice bullshit buffer to where they could be virtue signaling and showing what great corporate citizens they are and how much they care about the world without it actually affecting the bottom line. Now the fun part about Bud Light is it is affecting the bottom line and I love it and target it’s affecting them and I love it.
I think that’s great. But I’m just pointing out that I like your theory. You may be onto something because that could be a quiet way of saying there’s no residuals to pay anybody in that. It’s like the vault may be 100% profit or everything’s run out on it. There’s nothing else. It’s just money. It’s just every time they release it, that’s just pure money. Pure money. And they secured some very favorable deals at those times that didn’t get updated since.
So, yeah, another similar theory to Branch a little bit, but it’s kind of on that same vein as the 27 Club where it’s like there’s this mystical age where great musicians but also the early days of record labels. Were basically run by the mob that turned into sort of the entertainment industry, but that if they died at the peak of their prime, they no longer have to send any money if they didn’t have an estate set up, and they don’t have to worry about them kind of like fading out or causing controversy and then losing the money.
So you take someone out at the height of their career, and then you can just keep releasing their music and remixes and AI remixes in perpetuity. It is the best financial outcome for everyone involved, except for the person that dies, maybe. And then you can get into one of those members, kurt Cobain. And I’ve had somebody on who ties Kurt Cobain to Courtney Love? Who’s tied to the CIA.
We haven’t heard that one. I don’t know if I would for everybody. I don’t know if I’d want to sign up to be Courtney Love’s handler. If I was in the CIA, they’re like, hey, you have to make sure that she doesn’t get out of line. I don’t know. They’re claiming she was a prostitute working with okay, well, I guess that makes sense. And also in the CIA, kind of like hiring various people.
You mentioned Sidney Gottlie being a hippie, which is kind of funny to imagine that the head of the MKUltra program was also a hippie. Do you think that they had a large hand in the you know, Jim Morrison’s dad was the captain on the Gulf of Tonkin event. Frank Zappa’s dad was in, like there’s a huge list of all these counterculture people that really kind of came from CIA or families of the CIA.
Well, there’s both. So that’s the problem we get into. Like, King Kesey was supplied all the asset from the CIA. CIA bought the world supply of it was at Menlo Park is where they did that. Right. Well, the Grateful Dead. All the asset came from CIA. I mean, they were distributing it out. They bought the whole supply. So that is true. Jim Morrison’s. Dad. Well, there’s nothing really specifically tying that together other than Laurel Canyon, lot of artists, blah, blah, blah.
There’s a whole book on that. That one’s a lot more tenuous. And part of the problem is this. These people were born in the 60s. Not born sorry, they came of age in the 60s. Most of them were born in, like, late thirty s to forty s. Right. Somewhere in that range. All of their parents were world War II veterans. It was very common for I mean think of how many people fought in World War II in this country.
What kind of percentage it was Disney animators too. Another good point is that a lot of those guys that worked on those classic kids animations, they went off to war, saw combat, saw people dying and then went back and worked on Disney movies and that’s their natural experience. And people were not such babies then. I mean they lived hard. Mean you talk about showing death in Disney, well look at the amount of children and babies who died back then.
It’s very common that a kid named John was the second or third John because they would reuse the know child death is so common that they would recycle the name. Think about that. Little creepy now but life was a lot different. But I’m just saying a lot of people had parents who were in the military who decided to do full careers. Some of them advanced pretty high up.
Jim Morrison’s father obviously was in charge of the operations. Vietnam, I don’t know though and I’ve never really seen anything conclusive that said that Jim Morrison and his dad and CIA. I haven’t seen any really linkage at all that I know of. And I’ve read a lot about Jim Morrison way back in the day. It’s been many years. So here’s a very subjective theory. But the way I think my view on MKUltra, because all we had was the financial documents is that it almost seems that I’m just going to say Sydney Gottlieb as if it was just like one guy running it.
Obviously it was like a whole operation. But Sydney Gottlieb is sitting back and he gets reports that there’s this guy, Dr. Ewan Cameron, he’s doing some interesting stuff about psychic driving and LSD. And it might not be that they approached you and Cameron, maybe him they approached but they approach a doctor and it’s not like, hey, I’m from the CIA, we like what you’re doing, here’s a check.
It’s like, hey, I have been working in similar avenues. I can get you funding and all you got to do is take the money and then give me the results before you publish them out to anyone else. That’s all you got to do. Just let me be the person that you report back to and then we’ll let you know what you can write and make public and whatever.
So they might not even bother with that. They may not even bother with that. Make it public. We’re going to help fund it. It doesn’t even matter. Some of this stuff that could be useful outside is still useful inside and it’s being done for you. So you fund it through an umbrella operation because hey, yes, it’s going to benefit us. But you’ve heard of DARPANET, right? We’re on it, we’re on it.
It’s called the internet. Well that was defense spending. And it was with normal universities, all this technology, the idea was, hey, we need some sort of communication grid that is going to stay up even in the case of a nuclear attack. So that was a good military reason to have it. But a lot of the people developing it weren’t thinking military. They were thinking, hey, I want to have a cool way to communicate.
Isn’t this great? So realistically, it’s smart to invest in the people who are already doing this. And then you can take that because you now have a claim to it, you’ve invested in it, you can get copies of it, whatever you want, and then internally you can manipulate it to another way if you want, and enhance it, change it, or react to it. I want to keep talking about MKUltra, but I want to wind this up a little bit just to be mindful of your time and to leave some on top for the next one in case we get together again.
I want to talk about NLP. So do you have any broad thoughts on MLP? If someone just hey, Eric, what do you think about NLP? I’m thinking about getting into what’s what’s your immediate reaction on that? I’m supposed to be interviewing Richard Bandler, if that but okay. I actually was trained by Richard Bandler. Were you okay? Yeah. I think that NLP is a short term hypnosis. I think there’s a lot of good principles in it with science and just the way people think.
I’ve never really studied it deeply in any way, but some of it is, I just think, a mindset and common sense. For example, the whole your mind has trouble interpreting a variant from an initial theme. And by that I mean if you state something like, don’t do this, you don’t hear the don’t you only just hear the you know, it’s like, don’t spill the milk as you’re crossing the room.
Now, spilling the milk is the focus in your mind and you’re going to be causing that scenario. So I feel like NLP is a process of utilizing language and the way the mind interprets things to help clarify messaging and attitudes. I don’t know if that’s a good explanation, but that’s the best I can there’s not a right answer to this one because I get so many different responses to this one.
Do you think NLP is good or bad objectively? Is it like a manipulative thing that you’re doing to people, or is it just a social skill? So do you think let’s say that you just constantly employ that tool. You learn how to read people’s eye movements and you learn how to address them because they might be like, what they call like, an auditory person or a visual person or a kinesthetic person.
If you start catering to that, mirroring their body movements to kind of build that rapport on a subliminal level. Do you see any of that as manipulative in a bad way or is that just effective communication? Again, it’s a tool. I can use a kitchen knife and I can cut steak for dinner or I can stab you. It’s the same thing, right? Honestly, affecting better communication with somebody else in of itself is not a bad thing if you’re building rapport, how is that a bad thing? Now, if I’m building rapport to cause you to do something that does not serve your interests now it’s no longer as good of a thing, correct? Maybe.
And because here’s I guess where I think it gets murky and maybe not maybe I’m just putting into this but to me NLP is a way of teaching someone that doesn’t have these innate natural skills. Let’s talk about again like random cult leader like Jim Jones. A lot of people said that Jim Jones even as a small child had this charisma where he could start just pontificating about something and other kids would gather around and he would address.
So some people are just born with this innate ability that they don’t need to learn NLP, they just do NLP. They can just kind of like consciously realize, oh, if I treat this person in this way and use code switching, then I get my way. And it might not even be a calculated version of that. So I always wonder what if you’ve got like a socially inept person that maybe isn’t trying to do anything nefarious but they are actively using NLP constantly to build rapport because for whatever reason, they don’t naturally have the charisma to build that same rapport.
So now the verses is almost like someone that is unintentionally persuading you to do things that might not be in your best interest, but it’s just because it’s their natural state of being versus someone that actively learned how to do that and is now doing that to you. I think there’s an intentionality men’s rhea, you need to look at the intentionality aspect of it. If somebody accidentally encourages somebody to do something that’s not quite the same and I think, you know, it like if you’re using NLP and every technique in the world to upsell somebody beyond their budget and you know they can’t afford it, then that’s getting kind of evil.
You’re a shit if you are building rapport with somebody, you’re building rapport. Again, it’s a tool. And I think that trying to communicate with others in a manner to facilitate understanding and rapport is very seldom a bad thing. But then what do you do with the rapport? So if you build a relationship and a friendship, that’s cool. If you get that same friend to help you bury a body, that’s not so cool.
Well, maybe I guess we need more context on who the body is and how you came across it. But you get the thing. I do. No, I understand there’s another I’m going to always butcher these ones but one of the laws of God. It’s basically sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. I think it’s Arthur C. Clark, like third law of something or other, either him or Asimov, but yeah, right.
And this is kind of the illuminati aspect. If I understand this advanced technology or if I understand how the astrological processions work, and I pretend like I’m predicting it, and I’m intentionally kind of persuading you to think that I’ve got power, like I’m going to make apocalypto is my favorite version of this, where the priest basically tells people I’m going to make the sun go away because he knows when a lunar eclipse is going to happen.
And if you don’t do these things that I want you to do, the sun’s never coming back. So that’s one version of it. Although there’s another an internet reinterpretation of Clark’s Law and it’s that any sufficiently advanced ineptitude is indistinguishable from malice. And I kind of like this one just because it takes the intent out somehow where it’s like if you end up getting your friend to bury a body with you and it was just out of ineptitude or you just found yourself in here, it’s really the ends.
It’s like an inverse of the Machiavellian rule. It’s not the end justify the means. It’s like the end represents the actual end and how you got there maybe doesn’t matter as much. And the only reason I lean on this one is because if you can, all this will be a politically biased version of it. Right. But like George W. Bush, like holding the book upside down, he freezes in place.
I don’t know what to do. They just told me the towers hit and taking this archetype of the fool almost of the bumbling idiot that kind of washes away any sort of responsibility that you might originally feel towards that. It’s like, well, he’s just an idiot, he had nothing to do with this. And I feel like if you play into that, you can just always be the like, oh, I didn’t know I was talking you into buying a timeshare.
I just thought you really liked it. I was just kind of vibing with you. So I’m not saying right. You’re talking about Hanlon’s razor, right, in that regard? Never ascribe to malice that can be explained by stupidity of the Hallen’s razor. Yeah, well, I would argue that and Mark does all the time that the CIA uses that all the time. All the time that they will always say, oh, he was incompetence.
Oh, we are stupid. And so that one I’ll lean to Adam Corolla’s stupid or liar. Right. We never thought someone would fly a plane into a building and then it’s got like 20 years of that exact anyways, I want to go down that rabbit hole too much. But there is that yes, I think that there is very distinctly a stupider liar aspect of it where you know damn well what’s going to happen and you’re going to plead ignorance after the fact.
It’s like, okay, well, you know what? We’ll play that out then. You’re obviously too stupid to have your job. You’re obviously too stupid to do anything. Let’s just play that all the way out. Let’s find that to its logical conclusion. Right? All right, I want to transition to this next little segment. It’s really quick, but basically the rules. I’m just going to mention a conspiracy theory or a topic to you, and I just want to hear your rating from zero to 100 being it’s absolute nonsense.
Don’t ever repeat that again to me. And ten being? Yeah, of course that’s real. Why are you even asking? So Five probably have a punctual. I didn’t hear of that’s. Fine, if it’s something you never heard of, you could just say, like, no opinion or whatever. Okay. Are you good? All right, it’ll be quick. And I got a little intro for you. Hey, conspiracy buffs, I double dare you to take some PCP, the paranormal conspiracy probe.
On your marks, get set and go. Zero to ten. Humans landed on the moon. 50 to ten. The footage of landing on the moon was legit. Stanley Kubrick. I don’t know. Five. I never looked into it. Okay, the Earth is flat that gets into Ludicrous territory. So what is it? Ten silly. Ten means you believe it wholeheartedly. Zero means it’s silly. I think it’silly that one’silly. What about hollow Earth? Never heard of it.
We brought this up before. Do you think Disney movies have any intentional mind programming in them? I’m going to say maybe, but I’m going in the middle on that because I haven’t dug deep enough. So, Five, do you think the CIA successfully created assassins in lieu of, like, sirhan? Sirhan? For example? Like a complete triggered on do the assassination triggered back. See the lady in the polka dot dress? Take the shot, forget about it.
Yeah, that’s probably eight to a ten. Wow. I want to get into that a little bit more. What about the operations where they were doing like, astral projection? I think it was like Project Phoenix. Is that one of the names the men who stared at goats is the yeah, yeah. Remote viewing. Not that they did it, but do you think they successfully did? Oh, God. I’m going to go five because I know actually somebody who was in the program and one of the subjects, but he’s never gone into details with me.
What would they think of you giving that a five? He’d be fine with it because I’m never going to go too far any which way. If you haven’t noticed, I don’t go completely down the rabbit holes. I tend to look and go. It looks pretty deep. Let me go to the next hole. Bavarian Illuminati was consequential in the 18th century. Never. I don’t know. Never heard of it.
You never heard of Bavarian illuminati. I’ve heard of Illuminati, but that’s like details. I’ve never dug into illuminati. We’ll talk about that a little bit before we wrap up too. Freemasons have control in 2023. Control of what? Substantial political troll of world events. I’d have to look, I’m not sure because Masons have a lot of influence just through the ring knocking aspect of it, but control over everything.
So I’m going to go right in the middle again because that’s fine. The degrees of control, that gets to be very interesting. Harp weather control. Don’t know what that is. High Altitude Aurora Research Program in Alaska. You don’t have to have an opinion on it. Have you ever heard of Behold the Pill Horse by William Cooper? No? Okay. It’s a conspiracy, sort of trove. And he’s got something in there called Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars, but I’ll skip that one for now.
Dinosaurs. The way that you walk into the Natural Museum of History and you see a trex and you look at it and you say, that’s a dinosaur skeleton. How accurate is that actually? A dinosaur skeleton? As far as I know it is. So one or two, I guess, I don’t know. Or ten. You mean you agree that that sorry, yeah. Eight to ten. Because, I mean, I assume it is.
I never heard otherwise. Jeez. Dragons. Do you think dragons at any point in history existed? As in fire breathing and flying? Flying, sure. But wouldn’t that be a dinosaur? But then I don’t know the breed, so I don’t know. I mean, fire breathing, I’m not sure, but anything’s possible. They spit acid. Now we have creatures who spit acid, so it seems to me like it’s possible. Maybe not in the way that we don’t.
I guess if it spits on you and your face melts, I guess you could count that, right? That’s why breathing okay, yeah. Could they acid so, again, I don’t know, but I think it’s possible. But not necessarily. Marian so what would that be? A six or seven? That’s fine. I mean, you’re not going to get graded on this. It’s just a temperature check. Yeah. Have you heard of the concept of Tartaria before? I think I’ve heard the word, but I’ve no.
Well, have you heard the theories on world fairs being a front to destroy existing architecture? So that the theory is that you don’t have to rate this one if you’ve never heard of it before. But just to inform you, it’s an interesting rabbit hole. I don’t personally give a lot of credit to it, but I find it interesting. But the concept is that there used to be this almost an international culture called the tartarians, which is really just a reference to the Russia area in older writings, but that Tartaria was an actual empire that had advanced technology and that people, when they came to the United States, for example, the Chicago world’s fair, that the Chicago world’s fair.
Architecture was pre existing and that they just claimed that it was plaster of Paris and then knocked it all down as a way to get rid of this ancient civilization and remnants of it specifically because I don’t know anything about that. I do know that the whole technology ability I think we have lost a lot that may have existed prior. I think they found in Siberian caves like beads that had holes driven that had to be a high speed object of some kind.
So there are some very legitimate things there also like the was it Adriana stripper or whatever that supposedly mankind crossed over it’s like 10,000 years ago. But they found skeletons in California are like 30,000 years old. So every time we turn around the clock is reset, I think, for prehistoric information. So a lot of things are possible and for example, the ballpoint pen I think was invented and then lost and then reinvented down the road.
There are other things I’m sure, that may be like that things that have been created through time lost and are back. Like the aqueduct actually is a good example too. I mean they had running water traveling great distances and they tore that all down only to redevelop something else down the road. What do you think the chances are that you personally could be mind controlled? Very high. We’re outside of the zero to ten now.
I’m curious, how long do you think it would take for someone to be successfully mind controlled like an average person? Are we talking an hour, a day, a week? It depends. It depends on the person. It depends on their personality. It depends on like if you check out my channel, Eric Cunley, I go a lot into that. Can you be hypnotized against your will, things like that on that channel? And ironically, those who feel that they can’t be are the easiest usually because they have certainty.
The hardest people to truly manipulate and to truly control are those who are not certain or have an engineer mindset. And I know that sounds weird and I use engineer some people would say it’s a asperger’s mindset depending. But a person who is uncertain is very difficult to con quickly. They’re very difficult to mind control quickly because it’s hard for them to come down on something. They’re always uncertain.
You tell them something, they’re like I don’t know and they get stymied up and it’s very hard to get that person to bite because they’re going around. You’ve got a time limitation here. You’ve got to move in order to control them. And if they’re not great at coming with a decision, that’s tough. Now people who are of a military background quite often, et cetera who are used to following conforming, going into authority, people like that or people who are I’ve interviewed a lot of cult experts do gooders and I mean do gooders in a good way.
Like people who really want to change the world and be part of something are among the easiest to mind control and to get involved because they’re part of something greater than themselves. They’re predispositioned. Now, the engineer mindset that I’m talking about is somebody who’s like, you tell them something and they’re just so annoyingly on point. Like, you’re saying it’s about three inches. Are you sure it’s three inches or is it really 3.
25? Everything you say is having to go through this kind of annoying filter. And again, that kind of stymies the flow, if you will. It’s harder to build rapport. I feel a little bit of connection to that because I’m an engineer by trade, outside of doing comic books. And that’s kind of the thing is when someone makes a statement, my first thing is part of just a contrarian aspect.
If someone says, my dad used to say this, but if someone tells me vanilla is the best flavor in the world, even if that’s also your favorite flavor, there’s just this propensity to be like, oh, no. Have you ever had chocolate? Chocolate is kind of good just to push that along. But also as an engineer, someone makes a statement and I’m immediately thinking, how can I hack that? How can I break that? What are the edge cases where this isn’t true? But I also feel like I’m very susceptible to mind control regardless of that.
And I don’t know if it’s like a people pleaser aspect. Maybe you’re just like trying to feed into the person. If they’re trying to manipulate you, they’re not going to stop you from trying to please them. Yeah, I mean, it depends. Everybody’s an individual personality. I’m just telling you who’s hard, and engineers are hard. Is there something that you can teach yourself? Like, if you were to say, I think I’m very susceptible to mind control, what could you do to harden your resolve? Or are you just kind of screwed? Stall.
Never take an action. I know that sounds hard, but if you ever go into a scenario, always stall, always wait. And it’s actually a good habit, even with shopping. Like, if you see something you like, like bookmark it, revisit it in 12 hours any way you can. Stall because again, everything about this and if you watch, if you look at NLP, you look at everything, you’ll see, there’s a pattern.
You got to keep that going, keep the communication. Anything that breaks that communication is a reset. It’s almost the reverse. Okay, so in order to get somebody to your side, you’re doing a pattern break, right? And then that gets their attention. Now they’re locked in this. Is that like snapping in their face or like you go to grab them for a handshake, but then subvert it and grab their arm? That’s that pattern break.
Yeah, those are examples, yes, but it could also be verbally. It could be just whatever changing the subject. Darren Brown. If. You watch him, he’ll go to the cashier and he just keeps saying he’s like, okay, so everything how do I get to the such and such there? So all I have to do is to go there and everything is fine. Go there. And it’s like this weird verbal thing.
He’s handing a piece of paper and they just let him walk out the groceries. Yeah, he describes that one as whatever the name is, but that he claims that a human mind can only keep about seven things in the front of its mind. So if you can occupy someone with seven small requests, what time is this bus coming from? Hey, do you have a phone on you? And once you can bombard them with those first seven, essentially, then you can be like, can you give me your wallet really quick? And some people just kind of, like, skip right to it because they’re still thinking of the first seven.
Darren Brown is single handedly responsible for getting me interested in NLP and mind control in general, I think, because I saw a particular episode where he’s with Simon Pegg and he’s asking Simon Pegg what he wants as a birthday present as, like, a 40 year old guy. And spoiler alert, at the very end, Simon Pegg wants a BMX bike. But he’s like, why would I want a BMX bike? I’m an adult man.
I’ve got a car. I haven’t rode a bike in so many years. But what blew my mind is that when Darren Brown asked him, what do you want? I’m thinking in my head, I don’t know why, but I want a bike. And then, sure enough, it’s a bike. And then they kind of rewind and show you that on the way there, they drive by bike shop. Yeah, it’s psycho crazy.
And there was one in particular. He was like, Maybe you want a BM or an Xbox. And it made it sound like he was saying BMW. And then he cut himself off and said Xbox. But he really said BMX. And he did a lot of things with wheels turning. He had him sit on, like, a rotating stool. So everything was catered specifically to make him want to ask for that bike.
And, yeah, it programmed me. And that’s when I realized, like, wow, I’m very susceptible. I don’t know if I would have shot RFK if a lady walked by in a polka dot dress, but I definitely asked for that bike. Well, he did that experiment to find an assassin. And I remember he had to go through different groups. I believe that was him. And some of it too, was like getting them to undress in a restaurant.
And half of them were tossed out even though they did it, it’s very difficult because who’s playing along and who really is under? And then finally, I think they had the guy in the ice bath, which is just like, nuts because his heart didn’t change nothing. It’s like he really was under and that was a perfect candidate. But he did the experiment, I think, like, two times in different ways.
Yes, all of that is completely possible. And the more you think it is not possible, you’re nuts. But how do you prevent it? Well, one, put yourself in an environment where it’s just not conducive for them to do it. If you’re always changing up or different things or you’re in a crowd or this or that, there are different ways to, I feel, be less susceptible. And some of it might even be just developing your own personal habits.
My biggest one is find any way to stall. If you always stall, always stall. I mean, think about how you really want something and you’re like, oh, God, I really like that. But then if you say, you know what, I’m going to go I’m going to walk down the rest of this aisle. Not the aisle, but like a bunch of shops. You’re in the shop and you’re seeing, oh, my God, I like this thing.
Well, I’m going to get all the shops and then we’ll come back around and I’ll grab that on my way back. I would say good percentage of the time, you won’t even get it because it just gets sort of like, did I really need that? No. And other things. And sometimes you don’t even stop. You forget about it. I think that’s great advice. And I guess that if someone is actively trying to manipulate you and they see you stalling, it would kind of be fun to just watch them, see how can they keep building that rapport? How can I keep that feedback loop closed tighter and tighter? So I think that’s a great example.
I want to ask you one last question. Out of all the names that we’ve mentioned so far, jolly west and Sidney Gottlieb and George Hunter White and Darren Brown and Richard Bandler, are there any other heavy hitting names that you think are a little bit more unsung that people should know more about and look into? I haven’t dug as deeply into him as my friend Chase, but George Estebrooks, I have his book somewhere.
I haven’t got to him, but he’s very deep into MKUltra, et cetera. A lot of people don’t know his name. Oh, yeah. No, I also have never heard of his name, but, yeah, he’s into spiritualism hypnotism. He did hypnosis in World War II. He had personal correspondence with J. Edgar Hoover talking about using hypnosis to interrogate juvenile delinquents. Okay, and another one, and we’re going to be doing the episode on him is oh, wait, there we go.
Do I have both of them? This is the Esther Books book that is out there. And Chase Hughes, who I’ve had on multiple times on my channel, he actually went and got a hold of all of his studies and was able to go through all of the notes. Wow, that’s absolutely fascinating. I guarantee you I’m going to devour that one. And the other Jolly West videos that you mentioned.
We’re going to also be doing an episode at some point on this guy. And this is William Joseph Bryan, who is the grandson, or great grandson. He’s related to William Jennings Bryant, the very famous politician, but he not only was a master hypnotist and creep, but he invented jury selection. Oh, wow. And he’s another kind of hidden one, but he had like, sex houses in Hollywood and he did a lot of similar things to Operation Midnight Climax.
I appreciate that one. I hadn’t heard of either of those. And now I’m going to do deep dives on them. So thank you for and, uh and again, Eric, thank you so much for your I honestly, I feel like we keep talking for hours and hours. I’m going to reach back out to you for maybe a more specific topic that we can go in in the future. Cool.
Let people know again where they can find you. And I will recommend if there’s like one video that would really sell them on your channel, if you want to just shout out that one and I’ll link it below so people can link and click right on it as soon as this is done airing. I interviewed John McAfee. When was that? When he was on the run in 2020.
Do you think he’s dead? I can argue three different ways with him, and it’s a unique situation. I can argue that the government killed him. I can argue that he killed himself, and I can argue he’s still alive. And I think all three hold equal weight. And he may be the only person in the world I could do that with, but I feel I can. Because one obviously he knew a lot was connected by the way he was tied into intelligence, did work tied into the CIA, et cetera, programming way back in the believe some NASA work, et cetera.
So there’s a stain of intel that’s running through his life and some of his shenanigans. You can’t help but wonder if he maybe got away with or had a little bit of an assistant or maybe some numbers he could dial. At the same token, he was a giant pain in the ass about taxation, about crypto and things like that. There’s questions. I mean, the guy I kind of consider a modern day pirate.
So at the very end he did the tattoo of Whack, et cetera. And know if anything happens, it’s an Epstein situation, blah, blah, blah, blah. But if he was really going down, his health is that bad. I mean, I believe he even told me, but he was drinking two bottles of bourbon a day, just took every drug imaginable, very open about any of it, getting into his 70s.
For all we know, his health was not necessarily doing great. Could have been failing, could have been an issue. I could see him in the prison saying, screw you, you’re never going to get my crypto, you’re never going to get my info, and taking him out. So here we go. Equal ends, right? Makes sense both ways. Maybe he had that engineer mindset so they couldn’t program him to do it.
Right. Or number three, like I said, I feel like there’s some ties to CIA, et cetera. He actually may still be alive, may have been assisted by the CIA. And what reason would I give to say that’s possible? They’ve not released. His body in Spain. You can’t come up with it, you get lost. Is it in the shed? Where help me out. Maybe they’re going to bury it at sea out of respect.
Yeah, like Bin Laden. I’ve always wondered about that one, and I very seldom actually never I’ve never heard anybody other than myself. And then people agree with it, say, yeah, I always wonder why he know, just buried a city. It was to respect his culture, of course. Yeah, but we respected his was it Uday and Hussein or know Saddam’s culture, right. By showing them displayed only within a decade here.
I don’t think so. Well, maybe we only show that respect to direct CIA operatives. Yeah. Or maybe it’s very OD OD OD question. Because especially culturally speaking in the Middle East, why did we show Uday and Kusei? Because we wanted people to say, yeah, okay, yeah, that’s them. It looks like they’re really dead. Because the culturally speaking, they don’t believe us, but they suddenly changed their mind and believed us about bin Laden.
Really doesn’t make sense. Can’t find any DNA around, can’t find any film. Can’t find a that’s a very interesting question. So I’ll definitely link your John McAfee interview below. And again, what were your other four podcasts that you do? Primary shows are my Name, Eric Hunley, Erica’s Untold Stories. I do a show called Back News, and every Friday I have a legal panel with like, a bunch of the YouTube lawyers who are on there from Nick Ricada, Viva Fry, Nate the know, a lot of the bigger names in the legal community will come in and out and other less well known but great lawyers.
And we hash up like, whatever, the weekly news that is Friday at noon. Last channel is Nate and Eric, which haven’t released anything on for a while. That’s with me and Nate. The of. We’re really close friends on opposite ends on a lot of issues, so we kind of hash things out, but it’s fun. Hopefully that’ll get back up, but just follow me on Twitter or X or whatever.
I like dead naming don’t dead name X. So again, thank you so much, Eric. This was a very fascinating conversation. I find all of your research incredibly riveting, well worth it. And I really love the more rational approach and show me the proof, or I’m going to kind of discount it by default until there’s more to it. I think we need way more of that in these, I guess, speculative areas where not all the facts are always out and people like to jump around and everything.
So, thank you for everything you do. Please keep doing it, and I hope to reach out again soon. Cool. Sounds good, man. All right. Thanks again, Eric. And you have a great rest of your weekend, man. All right. You, too. .
