➡ The Paranoid American podcast, which also publishes comics since 2012, has launched a new comic about Stanley Kubrick directing the moon landings. The comic is available on Kickstarter, with various rewards for backers, including digital and print versions, variant covers, and exclusive merchandise. The podcast explores mysteries and secrets of our world, challenging accepted perceptions of reality. In a special episode, they discuss the work of Dr. Carla UNESCO, an expert on Artemis and ancient history.
➡ The speaker is excited to discuss Artemis, a goddess from Greek mythology, and feels that most people know very little about her. They are conducting research in Greece, visiting temples and sacred sites dedicated to Artemis, and are surprised by how little people know about her. The speaker is also working on a PhD about Artemis, and is frustrated by the lack of academic studies and references about her. They believe Artemis is often overshadowed by her brother, Apollo, and are determined to bring more attention to her significance in ancient mythology.
➡ The text discusses the evolution of gods and goddesses, focusing on how ancient civilizations transitioned from worshipping the moon and earth to the sun. It explores the theory that there may have been one original goddess, with different cultures adapting and renaming her based on their own beliefs and environments. The text also touches on the idea that gods and goddesses can have multiple personalities, names, and symbols, making it challenging to trace their origins and changes over time. Lastly, it discusses the role of women in ancient societies, suggesting that they may have been more involved in hunting and gathering than previously thought.
➡ The text discusses the intriguing role of female deities in ancient Greek and Roman cultures, despite the strict gender roles of the time. It highlights the existence of warrior goddesses like Athena and Artemis, who were revered and feared, suggesting a fascination with powerful women. The text also explores the possibility that these goddesses were inspired by real warrior women encountered by the Greeks. Finally, it delves into the personal connection the speaker feels with these goddesses, comparing it to modern religious faith.
➡ The speaker believes in the divine and practices rituals to honor the goddess Artemis, such as pouring water as a libation and offering found objects at temple sites. They also share a story about a challenging hike to a temple, during which they were accompanied by a kitten, which they interpret as a mystical experience and a blessing. The speaker acknowledges that these experiences can be seen as coincidences, but chooses to view them as signs of divine intervention.
➡ The text discusses the complexity and appeal of the goddess Artemis, who is seen as a paradoxical figure embodying both cruelty and gentleness, independence and nurturing. Despite being neglected in modern times, the author believes Artemis is relevant today, fulfilling a gap for many people with her various characteristics. She is seen as a protector of the young, a savior, and a symbol of rebellion against authority. However, devotion to Artemis is serious, as she can be vengeful and judgmental to those who cross her.
➡ Artemis, a goddess worshipped in various regions, was often overlooked in history due to male historians’ preferences for other goddesses. Despite this, Artemis held significant importance and had unique aspects that are now being rediscovered. She was considered a powerful early goddess of the wild, worshipped by ancient peoples, and her influence can be traced back 7000 years. The speaker discusses her personal journey from Christianity to worshipping Artemis, highlighting the goddess’s enduring relevance and influence.
➡ The text discusses various topics, including the interpretation of Artemis’ huntress aspect, the concept of the Virgin Mary and Jesus as real people, and the Holy Grail. The speaker also shares their beliefs on various conspiracy theories, such as Bigfoot, flat Earth, and the moon landing. They also discuss their course on paranormal phenomena, where they explore unexplained phenomena and share personal experiences.
➡ The text discusses the portrayal of the goddess Artemis in popular culture, arguing that it is often poorly done and one-dimensional. The speaker also suggests that Princess Diana embodied many qualities of Artemis, but doesn’t believe her death symbolizes the destruction of Artemis. The speaker, an expert on Artemis, encourages people to learn more about the goddess, who she believes is making a comeback. The text ends with a promotion for various products and a song.
➡ Despite not having an agreement and lacking attractiveness, they continue to persist.

Hey, thank you for watching listening to another episode of whatever you’re listening to. Paranoid American podcast, the cult Disney paranoid programming, sound science. There’s a bunch of them, but whatever it is, I appreciate that you’re listening watching this right now. And if you really want to support Paranoid American, if you didn’t know this, in addition to being a podcast, we’ve actually been publishing comics since 2012. So over a decade, while I was still at Disney, has started this company to publish a little book called Time Samplers. And it’s exploded into 60 different titles at this point, and the biggest one just launched, at least at the time of recording this, but it’s at nasacomic.com stands for never a straight answer, and it’s about Stanley Kubrick directing the moon landings.

I just want to show you some of the cool kind of exclusive things you can get by backing this thing early. If you go to nasacomic.com, comma, it’ll automatically bring you to this Kickstarter page. And you can see bam. Hit our goal at the time of recording this 100%. So it’s definitely going to be made. So you’ll absolutely get a copy of this thing if you back it. If you’re listening to this in the future and this page isn’t here or brought you somewhere else, then likely you can just buy it right now. So you have to skip all this and just buy the damn thing.

But here’s a couple little previews of artwork. Here’s different variant covers that are for offered. This top left one, I actually have imprint. I got a couple of prototypes printed up just to make sure that it would look good. It looks great. Looks amazing. Full color gloss pages. It’s got a nice hefty weight to it because it’s 40 different pages of all unique art that you haven’t seen before. There’s also going to be a variant cover. There’s going to be a foil, hollow foil cover, and then there’s a little postcard print that anybody that gets a physical copy of the comic in any form, they’re going to end up getting this postcard size print here.

Here’s some different artwork samples from the three different artists that contributed to this book. And then here’s the important part, the rewards. So by backing this project, you’re going to get to pick some different kind of reward tier. The entry level one is this digital deluxe, which has the entire book in digital form. You’ll get a PDF. It’s also going to have an additional eight different pages that aren’t in any of the print versions just because they were. Maybe some were a little too spicy, maybe some were a slightly different art style. But I’m going to give all that in the digital deluxe along with some wallpapers and some mp3 s and stuff.

If you want the print one that I was just holding up here, then the entry for that one is $15. With that, you’re going to get that little postcard print I mentioned. You’re going to get a trading card, you’re going to get a bookmark, and you’ll probably get some other stuff. Because I always throw in extra freebies. You ask anyone that’s bought anything from paranoid american, I hook it up with lots of extras. If you want the variant cover, which is only available in this campaign, there’s a $19 tier for that. It also comes with an extra sticker.

If you want the holofoil, then that one is 29. These ones are going to be super limited. Like, these won’t exist outside of this campaign for the next 30 days. So if you are listening to this in the future, sorry you missed out. You might be able to snag one in an upcoming campaign if there’s extras. But if you really want this holofoil, and you should, you can get it right now for 29. And then we’ve got a couple other tiers after that. We’ve got a 55th anniversary special for $55 that has the main cover and the foil cover and a sticker sheet and some other goodies.

Here’s the best value. Basically, there’s a dollar 99 cosmic conspiracy tier, over 40% off of all the different things that are included. So this one’s going to come with the main cover, the variant cover, the hollow foil cover, three or four different sticker sheets. It’s going to come with sticks plus stickers. It has the trading card, a bookmark. It has a custom paranoid American. Room 237 keychain. And I think the highlight of this is it’s going to come with this custom embroidered Stanley Kubrick patch based on the Apollo Eleven design. And there’s a. You keep scrolling down, you can see all the other extra reward tiers.

All of the different items are going to be described in more detail. And I want to show you this patch right here, the three inch embroidered iron on patch. You can put it on your molex bag. You can put it on, you know, anything. Hats, backpacks. This is the first time you’ve ever done one of these custom patches. So I’m really excited about that. There’s also a custom fake moon landing playset that you can select as an add on when you go to check out. So speaking of, let’s say that you’re sold. You want to get a copy, you want to help support paranoid Americana.

If you haven’t used Kickstarter before, the easiest thing to do is you just click on this back, this project button on the page. It’s both at the very top of the screen and it’s at the top of the page. So you can click either one back, this project, and from here it’s going to be like a typical checkout. You’re going to select which of these different tiers you want. Again, I highly recommend this dollar 99 cosmic conspiracy combo. It’s going to have every single thing that the campaign has to offer that’s exclusive to this NASA book.

You click on that, you pick the country that you’re in, and then you just click on the pledge button. There’s one extra last step where it’s going to ask you if you want to do any add ons. If you want to throw in like a trading card pack or another keychain or anything else, you can get some huge discounts on the backlog of paranoid american comics. But let’s say you’re done with that. You click continue, and then finally, if you don’t already have a Kickstarter account, you’ll be prompted to make one. You can link it to Facebook.

The rest of the flow is just like any typical checkout online. So I really appreciate if you would take a look. Please just back the comic back nasacomic.com. anyways, back to your regularly scheduled programming. Good evening, listeners, brave navigators of the enigmatic and the concealed. Have you ever felt the pull of the unanswered, the allure of the mysteries that shroud our existence? For more than a decade, a unique comic publisher has dared to dive into these mysteries, unafraid of the secrets they might uncover. This audacious entity is paranoid American. Welcome to the mystifying universe of the paranoid american podcast.

Launched in the year 2012, Paranoid American has been on a mission to decipher the encrypted secrets of our world. From the unnerving enigma of mkultra mind control, to the clandestine assemblies of secret societies, from the awe inspiring frontiers of forbidden technology, to the arcane patterns of occult symbols in our very own pop culture, they have committed to unveiling the concealed realities that lie just beneath the surface. Join us as we navigate these intricate landscapes, decoding the hidden scripts of our society. And challenging the accepted perceptions of reality. Folks, I’ve got a big problem on my hands.

There’s a company called Paranoid American making all these funny memes and comics. Now, I’m a fair guy. I believe in free speech as long as it doesn’t cross the line. And if these AI generated memes dare to make fun of me. They’re crossing the line. This is your expedition into the realm of the extraordinary secret the shrouded. Come with us as we sift through the world’s grand mysteries, question the standardized narratives, and brave the cryptic labyrinth of the concealed truth. So strap yourselves in, broaden your horizons, and steel yourselves for a voyage into the enigmatic heart of the paranoid american podcast, where each story, every image, every revelation brings us one step closer to the elusive truth.

Here’s another special, dedicated episode to my cherie for recommending doctor Carla UNESCO, who has a whole bunch of really cool credentials. I’m going to give the highlights, and then I’ll let her fill in the gaps. But it sounds like PhD in ancient history from York University. She kind of spearheaded this Artemis research center, and she’s kind of made Artemis her, like, her thing. Like, if anyone knows anything about Artemis, it’s her. So that’s probably we’re going to be talking about for a large portion of this. And she also has the Goddess Project podcast, and she’s got videos on YouTube.

You can find her all over. I think her name is unique enough that if you were to search for doctor Carla UNESCO, it wouldn’t really be hard to find you. Right? So the best place is artemisresearchcenter.com, and I’ll have links and everything. Thank you for your time and coming on here. I’m legitimately excited to talk about this. So first of all, thank you and welcome to the show. Thank you, and thank you for having me. I’m also very excited. It’s been a very long time since I’ve done a podcast because I’ve been moving around so much.

And so when you asked me, I was like, yeah, yeah, I think it’s a time that we talk more about Artemis again. And so I’m very excited to be here. Yeah, it is time. And also, a little selfishly, I’m going to use this not just to learn about you, but I just want to know about Artemis. Like, I want to be, like, an apprentice. I know I’m probably not going to walk away after an hour like an absolute master, but I absolutely feel that you could give me enough info to be, like, in the top 5% of Artemis people within, you know, as it dissipates out of my brain and other things replace it.

But, like, we will, for a moment in time, kind of be experts, right? Among the general population. Yes. Yes, that is correct. Yes. We’re going to dig deep. So I want to, I guess, dip my toe in. I want to understand. How much do you think people actually know about Artemis? That’s factual, based on, I don’t know, high school and I guess, precursory, like college dabbling into mythology. Like, does that give the full picture? Has things, like, changed completely? Is the mainstream narrative different from what you’re into? Give me an idea. So I would say that people know almost nothing about her.

I think that’s a great question, actually, because even today, so I’m in Corfu now, which is an island in Greece, and I’m here for a month, and I’m working on some of the research I’m doing that we can talk about sometimes. You know, I went in today for lunch and I go do things, and I say, oh, you know, I’m doing some research, and I’m. There’s an Artemis temple here and a sacred site and a museum and all this kind of stuff. And I said, I’m going to go to the site. And people look at me like, what? Who? And that is not to say that people don’t know the name Artemis, but they know very, very little about her.

So they’ll be like, who is that one again? Remind me, you know, and I’ll say, oh, the huntress. And the huntress, which is a really, like, one dimensional way of talking about Artemis, but it’s the quickest kind of symbolism that shows up. They’ll go, ah, yes, yes, okay, yes, I know who you’re talking about. So it makes me both a little sad, but also happy to have conversations with people about her and to be doing this work. Like, it makes me feel like this work is necessary as far as, like, learning in high school and even college or university.

I picked Artemis for my PhD work. Well, maybe she picked me, I don’t know. But when you do your PhD work, you have to do something that other people haven’t done, you know, so you have to pick this really minute thing that maybe people have circled around but never really talked about. You have to find something so called authentic. And so I had been looking into Artemis for some time, and then I. I kind of realized that no one was really looking at her seriously. But she was showing up everywhere, everywhere, everywhere. And I thought, well, this is odd that a goddess that’s supposed to just be the hunt, the wild in the forest has hundreds of temples.

Arguably, I would say almost more than the other gods, but my research is building, so I don’t want to jump too far ahead of myself. But I like hundreds and hundreds of temples, hundreds of names, you know, over 150 names, and yet people went, oh, she’s just, she’s a huntress. She’s a young maiden in the wood hunting deer, you know. And so I decided to do it for my PhD. And my supervisors were like, okay. And it was both good because of something kind of new ish, but hard because you couldn’t find enough references or academic studies, or people would say something like, oh, and there’s a temple to Artemis here and one here, and then leave it.

And it’s like, what happened there? You know, what do we know about it? And how come? You know? So that was a little frustrating. And I think that’s what inspired some of this research to go myself to the temples to dig myself. But I’m using primary source, a lot of primary source, which is poisenius, who’s the second century greek vlogger, early sort of blogger, and I’m using some excavation reports and some secondary source, like some academic sources, but it is a bit of a challenge to uncover maybe so much that has been ignored over time and buried under just huntress goddess, the sister of Apollo.

And I don’t really like Apollo, so that becomes even more complicated. You don’t like your goddess defined by her brother? I don’t, I don’t, I don’t. And history. So some of the data shows that. That shows us that she was actually around before she was attached to Apollo. Apollo sort of a later addition. And so, and I’m not a big fan of him, though. I kind of tolerate him. And I’ve gone to a couple of his temples, because on the site of his temples, there are temples or sanctuaries to Artemis that are completely ignored. Right. So it’s like, oh, they’re in the documents, but they’re not labeled on the site.

So my job has been to go to the site of Apollo, look at the temple, hu ha, great. Apollo, and then go around the archaeological site. And I, based on the data, try and figure out which of the smaller sanctuaries or sometimes a larger sanctuary was hers. And so, for example, in Calydon, sorry, I know I’m now I’m rambling because I’m super excited. Keep going. This is all new information for me. And everyone listening. I think, for example, in Calydon, she has this massive temple, Artsmiths Laphria massive temple on top of a mountain, which my friend and I, who joined me on some of this research, like, we climbed two mountains to find it.

Anyways, we get there and it’s large, it’s a very large site. And in the description that we found, it says, oh, the temple of Artemis and Apollo. And I thought, well, that’s weird. There’s really no temple of Artemis in Apollo. Anyways, we go up there and it’s just her temple. And his temple is down near the bottom of the mountain, and it’s this small compared to hers. Okay? So I’m like, oh, okay. So he has a little temple at the bottom of the mountain. So we film everything. Okay, fine. We go to the museum. And in the museum, besides the artifacts that were found, it says the temple of Apollo and Artemis.

And so I was like, no, no, this should be the other way around. This temple to Artemis was massive. Massive and on top of a mountain. It’s like a really big deal in the ancient world. So I think a part of me, and I take it maybe now less academically, more personally, because I’ve become so attached to her and attached to this work. But when I read some of the stuff, I’m like, no, this is inaccurate. Like, you know, we need to make this clearer. So it’s been exciting work in one way, sometimes a little frustrating work, but.

And I just started, like, I’m just scratching the surface of what’s there. So very exciting. Well, beyond just like, the museums and I guess, textbooks putting emphasis on Apollo over Artemis, there’s also, I guess, from a layman, right? Like, I’m going into this fair leave line. There’s also, like, the whole symbolism, because if you’ve got the God Apollo of the sun and Artemis, which I think is associated with the moon, like, the moon’s whole role is to just reflect the light of the sun. So it’s kind of apropos that she is maybe shadowed a little bit by the sun God, because that’s kind of the whole.

And I guess the question in there is that does she really get associated with the moon because of Artemis fact, or is she associated with the moon and that it’s more convenient to be sort of the companion to Apollo because it fills that role. So I’m going to say something a little less academic, but still academic. So let’s say, how do I date this? If we go back to the neolithic, right? If we predate the Greeks, the mystery of the divine happens at night. And so the moon, the night, the cosmos, the stars, the constellations, all of those things, the timing of the moon, right, new moon, full moon, etcetera, etcetera, all of that was central to divine worship.

So the sun God or sky God worship is a later adaptation, let’s say, or inspiration comes later. And so the argument is that the ancient goddesses, especially people like Hecate, people like the vinities, like Hecate, Artemisilene, which is the trinity, the original trinity came before this concept of the sun God or sky God. People looked into the earth and the moon because it had to deal with the oceans and the rivers and the water. Like the moon was very much central to worship pre, I don’t know, pre what some people might call so called civilizations, right? Like the Greeks, ancient Greeks called themselves as civilizations and decided they were the beginning of civilization.

So and so, it. This idea of looking up at the sky rather than looking into the earth and worshiping the sun is a little bit later. But the dating is weird because it’s hard to, because the earlier people didn’t have specific names for their gods, so they said things like mistress of animals, goddess of the moon, Earth mother. You know, they had these very vague terminology for the godsen. It’s harder to pinpoint a timeline the further we go back. And so the Greeks are great for timing. I mean, that’s a great segue into another question that I know this is, like, beyond subjective and it’s like an oversimplified approach of things.

But when you talk about, like, neolithic and like, the evolution of gods and the transition between worshiping moon and sun and all this, there’s another theme, especially for laymen, it’s very convenient. But it’s this idea that, oh, well, Isis is Ishtar and Ishtar is Ashtar, and Ashtar. Is it just that all the goddesses are just the same? And I guess if we were to narrow the scope a little bit, and then we can go back and talk about neolithic and everything, but the concept of Artemis being Diana, is that accurate? Is it literally just greek verse, Roman? Or is there something that gets added? And the reason that I ask is because I am familiar with subtle nuances between, like, Athena and Minerva in that, like, technically they’re the same, but one of them was more like warrior, and the other one didn’t really have the same warrior, but just through convenience and cultures combining, it’s like, you know what? They’re both warriors now because otherwise it gets too confusing.

So how much of that, when we talk about Artemis by name, like, how much of that is equal to Diana and how much of it is equal to, like, older versions? Hmm. That’s a very complicated question. But since we’re. Yeah, since I’m not publishing a paper today, we can talk sort of loosely about. I think that’s a fantastic question. I do think that goddesses. So there’s actually a theory that’s developing more and more that originally there may have been one great goddess, one mother God, especially with the findings in Turkey, now with the tepes that are there, and we’re finding that civilizations may have been older than we originally thought, and that many of these civilizations may have worshipped some kind of a feminine divine, some kind of a cosmic womb, a cosmic sense of earth and stars, darkness, you know, moons, etcetera.

Again, it’s growing. I mean, the evidence, I mean, it takes time to create this kind of evidence or publish this kind of evidence, but this idea that goddesses are intertwined in some way is quite well documented, and people can make those arguments. Like you say, there are some nuances between ISiS Ishtar and rescue gal, and then eventually Lilith and so on and so forth. Like, there is. There is an adaptation, but I think that’s a human. Like, it’s a human adaptation rather than the divine itself. So because everybody traveled back in the day way more than we think they did, way more.

And because they shared their religion freely with each other. So there really wasn’t a lot of religious war. There wasn’t a lot of religious. It was a lot of, like, collaboration. So, for example, if you went from town to town and you shared Artemis, let’s say, sometimes the people of a village would say, oh, this is a really great goddess. We’d like to place her in our town, and we’re going to name her either after our town or after a tree or after something. No one would be offended by that. It would be totally okay. And so gods and goddesses end up having these multi layered personalities and names and shapes and, like, symbols and the way they look and da da da.

And that was like. So they morph, you know, and that was totally okay for the ancients. For us. Now, looking back, that becomes somewhat chaotic because, for example, for example, there is a worship of Artemis lemnatus, which means goddess of the marsh. Okay? And she starts off in some places that have marshes or used to have marshes, but people liked her so much, they took her in places up in the mountains where there is no marshes. And so you have the goddess of the marsh on top of a mountain. And so historians are like, I don’t understand.

But this was very, very popular. So it can get a little confusing. I guess our job is to identify a little bit where they maybe were rooted from and then just map out their movement and their adaptations. And we see kind of how people changed over time. But you’re absolutely right. They do morph over time based on the way humans, different humans, see them. And of course, you know, Lilith then becomes this demon. And anyways, so that’s all human perception, right? Human adaptation of a divinity. I hope this analogy is appropriate. But it’s almost like you’ve got Malibu Barbie and you’ve got snowboarder Barbie.

And I guess within the context if everyone knows that Barbie’s just Barbie and she just goes to different locations and adopts different Personas and outfits, customs based on, like, whoever’s playing with her and the climate and whatnot. But that, I guess if you just were, like, discovering them in 2000 years and you were expecting these to be some sort of, you know, carvings of an actual God because why else would there be so many millions of them all over the place and we’ve lost all other record. So it’s like, yeah, Malibu Barbie and snowboarder Barbie are like the same even though it’s.

Because it’s based on the same archetype but they adapt different is that sort of Artemis and istar. And I love. I love that. I love that. And I can imagine in a thousand years someone saying, well, who’s the Barbie? Like, where’s the original Barbie? You know? And I guess at some point one can argue that there was an original Barbie but that’s somewhat irrelevant. German prostitute, I believe, if you go with, like, the historical fact. Yeah, like, so. So I would say that’s a great analogy, actually. I would say that that kind of morphing was encouraged and totally allowed and totally shared.

I taught a course just this winter that was called goddess migration. And in that course, we looked at, like, atogartis, we looked at ISIS, we looked at Artemis and we looked at Amazons. So we kind of almost plotted a migration of the goddess over time and space in the Middle east and Mediterranean because that’s exactly what happens. And you can. You can see, I mean, it took us eight weeks, ten weeks to do it. But you can see the patterns that are there. But you can also see the changes based on geographical space and time and things like that.

So. Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s that’s a great analogy for the archetype of the female hunter. How. How accurate was that? Like, did that get based on a plethora of all these really great female hunters? Or was it a God created to inspire the men hunters? Because, again, from the total bumpkin layman’s approach to this, my understanding is that outside of Lesbos and the Amazonians, guys did all the hunting and women did all the gathering and childrearing. And I understand that being the oversimplified version, it’s curious to have, like, the huntress goddess, because from me, living in the 20th and 21st century, my only exposure to female huntresses has been, like, tomb raider, World of Warcraft characters, like fictional deities, and not, like there’s no female bear Grylls that gets the same sort of accolade in an Apollo Artemis kind of way.

Right? Wow. I like your questions, although they take me. Okay, so, okay, let’s. Let’s divide that up a little bit. So if we’re talking about the neolithic, let’s start there, since that’s probably early enough, if we’re talking about the neolithic. So we found that men and women hunted and gathered together, right? So now more and more studies are showing us that the entire tribe, let’s say, hunted together. So that idea that men hunted and women gathered was sort of a 1970s academic way of thinking. And now, unfortunately, because maybe of climate change or rivers are drying up or things are thawing out, we’re finding more burial sites.

We’re finding lots of women buried with armor. Lots of things are showing us that the tribe itself works together. Okay, that makes sense. As we move forward into so called civilization. Let’s take the Greeks, for example. We do start seeing that division between masculine, let’s say, roles, and then more feminine roles. So, like, for example, in Athens, women were not even allowed out of their homes after they were married. You know, they’d have to come out sometimes totally covered or inside these boxes that were carried, et cetera. So we see a shift in, let’s say, moral values, and the gender roles become very, very divided.

So then you ask yourself, well, okay, if that’s the case, why did they have a hunter goddess and not a hunter God? And I find that fascinating about, especially the Greeks, but seems like the Romans and later peoples as well, they have a war. They turn Athena into a warrior goddess. They have a hunter goddess. They have Hecate, which is the queen of witches. They do have aries, which is a God of war. But yet Athena is their boo, you know? So you ask yourself, that’s so fascinating. And then you see so many temples and rich people’s, let’s say, burial sites full of pediments or friezes, sculptures of the Amazoniki, or the Amazoniki as an Amazon.

You know what I mean? The fight between the Greeks and the Amazons. So this tells us that there was something about warrior women that was appealing. And again, based on some of the data that we’re finding, there seems to have been some warrior women, particularly in the north. So what is today, the Balkans, in the Thracians, for example, other areas north, let’s say northern Europe, where there seems to have been hunter women, real warrior women, hunter women who either the Greeks came upon or maybe they were trying to overtake. It’s a little bit unclear because we don’t have a lot of primary source.

What I’m saying is that the Amazons themselves seem to have been based on real women, a real community that the Greeks have bumped into. And so did those women inspire the hunter goddess, or did they just like the idea of these fierce goddesses, but the women that they were procreating with staying home. Yeah. Seems a very. It seems like a paradox in a way. It seems like what? And so I always say, actually, to women, that when we’re looking at cultures that worship goddesses does not automatically mean they were equal or egalitarian cultures. Yeah. It’s like the ancients had this sort of division in their minds between goddesses who are up here on a pedestal and women who were in the house and not allowed to go anywhere, you know, which to us today, I think, doesn’t make as much sense, I think because we think if we worship goddesses, we would have empowered women or hunter women for the hunter goddess, hunting men really, really, really feared and loved Artemis.

So again, there’s something. There’s something about her that’s really enticing. So they didn’t want to worship a hunter God. I mean, there’s some great hunter heroes like meleagros or melagoros, but, you know, he kills the caledonian boar, blah, blah, blah. He’s a hero. There’s lots of heroes. There’s Hercules, blah, blah. But they really like their cruel, sometimes hunter goddess Artemis. Right? So they fear her and they love her and they admire her. So I don’t know what that means, really. Like, psychologically speaking, I don’t know what that means for their psyche. But this seems to have been something like Athena.

They seem to have really enjoyed having these powerful women to worship. I’m going to ask the same question twice, but just in two different contexts. So I’m not just, like, glitching out and forgetting what’s going on. So the first version of this question is like a very superficial how real is Artemis or the mother goddess or whatever the ancient archetype is? How real is that in terms of a sky deity or a real supernatural being out in the universe or whatever? I know this is subjective to you. How much do you believe that it’s a real goddess that we’re just trying to amalgamate here on earth? Well, I like this question.

So I actually had this question with my taxi driver when I arrived in Corfu, because he said to me, oh, the Greeks believed that Zeus was on Mount Olympus, you know, in the sky. And I said, well, where do the greek orthodox think that God is? Right? He’s in the sky. So I would say that Artemis was, let’s talk, was as real to the ancients as any other modern day religion is to any other modern day religious person today. I would say the same applies. So, for me, originally, she was a historic figure, a figure to study, an ancient mythology to study.

As I have gone to more and more of her temples, learned more and more of her worship has. Have been more and more in the mountains. Because I climb a lot to get to these places sometimes pure rock and stone. I’ve begun to see her almost like a real energy, a real the way. So I grew up christian, you know, and I had God, Jesus, the Virgin Mary, and I prayed to them when I was blah, blah, blah, doing something or I needed something. And now, as I’m lost in the mountains every now and then, or can’t find my way to a temple or blah, blah, blah, or I scratch myself or I see the cliff coming and I’m like, crap.

I find myself asking her for help, right? So I would say that she is as real as when I would ask the Virgin Mary for help. Do you know what I mean? It feels like it’s an entity. I don’t know what you want to call it. A spirit, an energy, a divine being that has become to me as real as the traditional divine beings of. And so now I kind of see them on an equal playing field. And so let’s say I choose to ask her on the mountain because it’s her mountain. If I’m at a crossroads where Hecate rules, I choose to ask her for direction.

I don’t know if I’m in the ocean and I need to swim harder. I choose to ask Poseidon for some help. Although he’s not always very nice, you know? So I think it. I think the idea is instead of having one divinity that has all the things, so everywhere you go, you’re like, God, help me with this, or God, whatever that one energy or vibration or whatever you want to call it, divine being is now maybe spreading different responsibilities, maybe with different names. I don’t know if that answers your question, but. Well, it does. Yeah. It actually bled into the second version of that, which was kind of.

And I guess I’ll ask this more specific way then. But, like, if you’re out hunting and you invoke Artemis, right, because she’s the hunter guy, let’s say you’re hunting at night just to make so it’s, like, fully on theme with her, how much do you think that you actually become a better hunter or that the light shines just a little bit better or that it gets that wild boar to stop hiding where it’s at? How much of an objective reality effect does it have to invoke this, like, Artemis archetype? I mean, that’s tough when you’re asking an academic this question, because the skeptic part of me is still very much around.

And so, for example, a couple of weeks ago, I got a little turned around, so I went to one of her temples, one that was really just a collection of rocks at the top of a mountain. And I got kind of turned around, and I ended up sort of hiking for an extra 3 hours. I went to another mountain and was in the wrong place. And anyways, and it was very hot. And a part of me was reaching out to the divine in this sort of very metaphysical way, right. And it’s very much like, help me figure out which way I’m going.

Another part of me was like, carly, this is ridiculous. You’re just lost in the mountains. Use your gps. Figure it out. And I found my way out, obviously. I. If I’m very honest, I can’t tell if anyone helped me other than myself. Or maybe. I don’t know. Maybe when I looked at the GPS, I saw, I found this riverbed, and I thought, oh, follow the river, you know, so maybe, like, so we could really make anything out of anything in a way, right? Like, so I can say to myself, well, you know, maybe taking this, right, or taking this or looking at this or seeing that, maybe that was inspired.

The skeptical part of me goes, well, you know, you’re just figured out how to get yourself out of the situation. I don’t know. So I would say that that is a question of faith. Like, so how much faith you have in the divine being that you worship? I’m. It’s a weird question. I’m very bonded to this goddess, but the skeptical part of me, even for any other tradition that I would be in, it’s always a little bit in the back of my head going, it’s a fair answer. You don’t have to get off the fence on it, you know? So I don’t know that I’ve committed fully to a faith aspect.

I don’t know. So I guess with that in mind, in a self reflective way, when you say that if you’re passing water, maybe you invoke Poseidon, and if you’re going through all these different modes of travel, you invoke the respective deities, is that just for fun? Is it in a pascal’s wager kind of way? It wouldn’t hurt in case Poseidon, Israel, let’s go ahead and throw him his dues. Is it that, like, you’re preparing yourself to maybe get off the fence at some point and just, like, fully submit that these deities are real? Yeah, I would lean towards the second.

That is, I think the divine is real. Whether or not my relationship to the divine is as I imagine it, or whether it’s different or whether or not the names of the divine are different or the way that we invoke them now may not be accurate because we’ve lost a lot of the ways they used to invoke them. So I think that there’s a lot of gap in some ways. But I do believe that there is something mystical, that there is something more than us, you know? So that’s a faith perspective. So I do have faith in, I used to say the goddess, but like I said, more and more, as I sort of spend time with Artemis, I now start to call more and more her name, and I.

In a more religious faith perspective. Yeah. And there are times, magical times, at a temple of Artemis, classically. What would you do exactly to worship Artemis? Are you, like, killing rabbits and, like, singing songs or what? So at this point, because I travel so much, I have a little statuette. Actually, I don’t have her here. I have her in my room. I have a little statuette of Artemis, and I put her on the site, and I kind of film her on the site, but also I do a little meditation where she’s sort of reclaiming the site and absorbing the site and sort of representing the site.

So it’s a little bit of a ritual. And I also pour water as a libation, because they used to pour libations, but obviously, you’re on an archaeological site in Greece. You don’t want to be pouring anything else but water in a very hot, dry, not marshy country anymore is valued. And so I pour water as sort of like a little, I don’t know, like a libation, a little prayer to the goddess. So those are the two things that I can do very easily on any site. On one of the sites that I went to, I didn’t bring anything with me, and I apologize for not bringing something, because you want to make sure you don’t anger the divine.

And then I was leaving the site, and I found this skull, this goat, this ram skull with curled horns, fully intact. Okay. It was stunningly beautiful. I mean, you know, there’s people that collect those things and paint them and do all kinds of stuff. Anyway, I was sort of looking around. We try to go down, and I see the skull with these massive, massive horns. And I knew that I had to get the skull, put it up on the temple, and offer it, you know, to the goddess. Like, there’s sort of an intuition that was like, oh, no, you can’t leave this.

This is a rare find in the woods. And so I did. And so, again, this is just, I guess, a way of paying respect, you know, in a sense, because I would say personally that the goddess liked it. But how do you confirm that? Totally subjective. Totally subjective. But I would not have left it in the woods without taking it to the. To the temple site. Like, so there’s this kind of, like, thing, you know, I don’t know how to explain it. It’s kind of like, thing. Like, you didn’t just stumble. This is not something you stumble.

You stumble on broken bones and skulls of goats in the mountains, you know, but this, this was a rare sight. So I put it right up at the top, and actually, I took some pictures of it, and I would really. And so I’m creating a map of her temples, and I’m gonna see if anyone else climbs up there and if it’s still up there, you know, in a year or two or whatever. Yeah, but I mean, so these are sort of mystical things that happen. Lots of mystical things happen on a mountain when you’re climbing by yourself.

And so there are moments where I believe that there is guidance. Can I tell you one more story? I tell you story? Yeah. Please. No, no. Please. So the very first time when I started hiking, I think it was a couple of years ago, I was looking for this temple of Asclepius, which is interesting because Asclepius and Artemis are often together. They’re both healing gods. They have healing aspects. Anyways, this temple of Asclepia is very hard to get to. It was winter time. You can only really get there by boat. There was no boats. And so I decided to climb it.

I went one day and I was totally lost in the mountain, and I did this whole TikTok thing about it. It was just, I was really, really upset. Anyways, couldn’t find it. Came back a week later, I found another trail. So I had to climb up a mountain and then down and found my way to Diosclepia’s temple. After long, long searches, I brought offerings with me. Yeah. Because, see, most of the time, I remember the offerings you want to bring a little bit of. So gods love honey, honey, anything. Cheese, anything. You have to be careful with wine.

They don’t always like wine. Some gods don’t like wine at all. So I brought a little offering with me, and when I got to the temple itself, actually, someone had already left a little, like, orange and fruit offerings, right. Anyways, one of the things that I asked for, because I was exhausted and it was hot, and you have to climb a really big mountain and go down a really big mountain, and anyways, and these are paths in, like, rock and stone, you know. So I had asked for making it back up the mountain because I was so exhausted, quickly and safely, without breaking an ankle or breaking a leg.

You know when you’re out there on your own and at this temple site, there’s also a sacred river, which is now kind of a fountain. And there’s. It’s full of cats. Like, full of cats. Cats are everywhere. And there was this little kitten, right? And she’s all over me. All over me. And I was like, oh, my God, she’s so cute. Blah, blah, blah. I would totally take her home. This soul did all my thing was heading back up now. Oh, my God. Okay, I’m gonna head back up. This kitten followed me. Okay. Followed me up the mountain, and I was like.

At first I was like, oh, this is so cute. She’s following me up the mountain, and I’m filming her following me up the mountain, and then I have to literally climb up the mountain, and then she’s jumping around, making it look easy. Blah, blah, blah. She follows me to a point where I’m like, okay, now we’re far from where you were. I’m worried you’re gonna get lost, which is silly, because cats don’t get lost. But anyway, I’m worried that you’re gonna get lost. This kitten follows me up the mountain. Okay. I’m distracted by her more than anything.

We get to the top of the mountain, and I turn around to be like, okay, we’re at the top of the mountain. You need to go. And she’s gone somewhere. She left me. And I turn around, and I’m like, I’m at the top of the mountain. I was so distracted by this cat that I made it up there. I don’t know how fast. I was not exhausted. I was totally fine. And I had never seen anything like that where one cat just comes with you for no reason. And so I thought that that was mystical in some way because I had.

It was like I flew up there. That’s how fast I went up there. That’s all. Distracted I was, you know, and so when I look back on that, I don’t even remember the climb. I just remember the cat, you know? And then when I got to the top, she was gone, which I hope that meant she went back down. So things like that, I mean, you leave an offering, you ask for something, you kind of make it through this weird thing. You have this cat following you for no reason. And then you get to the top really quickly, and you’re not tired, and you’re safe.

And so, you know, things like that are things that you decide from a faith perspective, from a subjective perspective, if this is, let’s say, a true blessing or answering of prayers, or if this is just all coincidence, right? And of course, your skeptical brain can say, well, you know, it’s just coincidence. A cat maybe liked you, you know? I mean, you could do all that in your head, but I’ve learned in my later years to also just let it be what it could be, you know, to be like, well, perhaps it is an answered prayer, let’s say, in a way, you know, there’s that.

Like, I don’t know if this is the adage exactly, but it’s like, you have to know the rules before you can break them, in a way. So. So maybe there’s, like, an aspect of that where it’s like, as long as you’ve got the skeptical and rational mind, that’s like, there’s no way that this cat is related. And because, like, here’s all the rational reasons. But at the end of that, the way that I feel, I guess it’s like, as long as the. I know about all that rational stuff, I can say, but I still am going to choose to believe this other thing just for my own fancy.

Like, it doesn’t even have to have a rationale behind it. Exactly. Exactly, exactly. And I think that’s the best way to look at anything, really, to be honest. I think sometimes we get a little, we can get a little absorbed into spirituality and especially into this kind of spirituality that is coming back. And it’s kind of new in many ways. And so there’s a lot of people trying to figure it out at this point. You know, it’s very, very early, but for me, I do that kind of thing in my mind where I’m like, well, yes, it could be all of these, let’s say, rational things, logical things, but also, that was a really great coincidence.

That was really wonderful. And so then you’re just kind of grateful that you made it and that you’re okay. And it doesn’t hurt to bring a little cheese snack for a God when you go visit their temples or in case you get hungry and you need the cheese snack, well, you do eat half of it. You know, you share it. I mean, one thing about the ancients, they like that you share the food with them. So, yeah, so you do eat some of it. And you’re saying about, like, don’t offend the goddess by not bringing anything or if you do, like, apologize.

And all I can think of is, I mean, you kind of are self professed, like, one of the rare people that cares about Artemis at all in 2024. Right? Like, you’re leading the charge in a way. But could Artemis be any matter than she is right now if it came to, like, being neglected? It seems like if she was a stock, right, she’d kind of be at an all time low in a way. So I do. So there’s. I’m a two minds about that because when I published a book, I felt like I was in a bit of a vacuum.

You know, I was very much in academia, and no one in academia was really paying attention to her very much. Not no one, but very few people compared to other classicists and ancient historians. And once I published the book, and I really went sort of public public with it, where I didn’t care about academic accolades. People came out of the woodwork and they continued to come out of the woodwork saying, oh, my God, I love Artemis. And I’ve always been fascinated by her and da da da da. And so I truly believe that this is her time.

Like, that she is a goddess that fits this time, that there is something about her that fulfills a gap for everyone. So for many women, for example, that are her wildness, her little bit of cruelty, anger, her independence, that really fits their needs. And then there are men and other women and other people who feel like there’s something very foresty about her, very mountainous about her, very away from governmental authority, let’s say, about her, you know what I mean? Because she’s a goddess that basically told her dad to shove it and doesn’t really care about anyone’s rules.

And she’s very much an anarchist in this way. And so I think that there’s a part of her that fulfills that. Then there is her whole mothering aspect. In some ways. She’s very nurturing. She can be very caring. She takes care of children. She protects the young. Right. And so I think for some people, they really need that in their lives. And so, and then she’s also savior. So one of her names is Sotera, which means the savior. And so she, you know, she’s literally the savior of. She’s the salvation of whatever it is that you need salvation from or salvation into.

And so I think that out of all, and that’s, again, unbiased, but out of all of the pantheon, she is a goddess that fits modern times because people could really see, and again, across all, I don’t know, all genders, all identities, all cultures, like, many people that I’ve talked to come out of all these spaces and they go, oh, I really connect with her in this way. And I’m like, oh, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Or some characteristics about her, you know, that they really connect to. I mean, my own weird bias on this is showing.

But, like, as you’re describing that, I 100% agree. Like, like the time, I guess, even neglected or not, has never been more rife for her to make kind of like a comeback. But, but as you’re describing, it sounds like a red pilled, conservative, like, trad wife in a way. Like she’s hunting and mudding and she wants to re, like, you know, raise her kids right. Like, this sounds kind of like a heartland american conservative icon. If you were to personify as an american archetype, it kind of fits in that I would say yes, except for the wife part.

So she is not a great fan of being married or associated with a man. So although many men love her, so, of course many men worshiped her. They built temples to her, I all of these things. But she never wants to get married. She never has her own children. She has no children, although she’s the goddess that protects children. So, again, this is what I mean. She’s a. She’s an entity that is a bit of a paradox, a bit of a mystery, and yet very, very fierce and independent. And so I think in her, people could really see themselves.

Even the hunting part, like people say to me, how can she be a protector of young or the wilderness and be a hunter? And I’m like, well, just because you hunt doesn’t mean that you’re not a protector of the wilderness. You can do two things at the same time. Or she’s a very bloodthirsty goddess. In the very ancient world, almost in the early time, when the Greeks were still in tribes, they used to do human sacrifices and of course, all the blood sacrifice, the Spartans would do this really somewhat disturbing blood sacrifice to her, you know, where they’d whip themselves into a frenzy for her and bleed on the statue.

But, you know, that aspect of her is also a real aspect. So what I really like about her is that she doesn’t fit into a box. You know, she’s sort of like, in this area, I am cruel and maybe a little bloodthirsty. In this area, I’m very gentle and warm. In this area, I save people and I take care of them, you know? So I really like that about her. No other goddess in the greek pantheon? I mean, in other pantheons, there’s a couple, but no other goddess in the greek pantheon does that. None. Not one.

Yeah, I mean, as you’re saying that, too, about her being, like, gentle and also harsh and also not having any children of her own, does that kind of imply she embodies both, like, the crone and the perpetual maiden, too? Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. And she has an entourage of friends and nymphs and other women that she’s very severe with. So she’s very protective but also very jealous and she doesn’t want them around any men. So she is a very particular divinity in that way. So if you make a commitment to Artemis where you devote yourself to her, that is a serious goddess that you’re committing to.

And so in some ways, she’s going to seriously protect you, but you’ve got to really seriously devote yourself. And she punishes people, you know, like Akion, who’s, you know, who snuck up on her and saw her naked, you know, she turned into a deer and his own dogs tore him to pieces, you know, so she’s. She can be quite vengeful and she can really pass judgment without asking anyone. Oh, what do you think? Is this wrong? She’s just like, nope, sorry, you crossed me. She sometimes turns her own devotees, like Callisto, for example, into a consolation or punishes them in some way for not obeying the rules.

So she’s a complicated divinity. And so this is what made that. This is what continually fascinates me because it’s like the more I learn about her, the more of a mystery she is to me. Right. And so that keeps me going to see what else can I can uncover. But that also confirms to me that so many people worship this goddess, so many, not just the Greeks, the Ephesians. And she’s in the Middle east, she’s in the Balkans, she’s in Italy. I mean, this is a divinity that was widespread, and yet as we move into modernity, was kind of ignored, you know? And I think she was ignored because, to be honest, she was of no interest to men.

Right, so men were archaeologists. You know, they were historians. They liked Athena because she’s a warrior goddess. They like Aphrodite because she’s a sex goddess. They sometimes talk about Hera because she’s a wife goddess. Artemis to them, was not that interesting. Oh, oh, a maiden goddess that’s hunting in the woods. But actually, she was significantly more. And because of that, she was kind of left alone. So now when we uncover her, we get to see all of these aspects that were not previously studied. Is there, is there, like, a hierarchical, like, superior to Artemis in any way, or is she, like, so prototypical that she’s, you know, is there, like a Zeus to her? Well, Zeus is supposed to be her father.

So she. There’s a story that when she’s very young, she sits on her father’s lap and says, I want this many cities and I want this much of an entourage, and I want to be left alone in the woods. And she gives him a list of 15 things, and he says, okay, you can have them all again, the only goddess in the pantheon to do this. So I don’t know that I would say. Say that there’s a. That’s nepotism. That sounds like classic nepotism, by the way. I would say that she’s the favorite princess for the greek pantheon.

But if we go back before the Greeks, I would say that she was probably one of the top sort of early goddesses of the wild that was worshipped popularly by archaic and neolithic and maybe even pre neolithic peoples without the name, though, you know. So the name was kind of was given to her just before the Greeks. We actually don’t know where her name comes from. It’s not a greek name, so even that is a bit of a mystery. But in the earliest figures of her that we have, she’s called Patna Theron, which just, which means mistress of animals.

And it’s a title more than a name. And that we can see that her worship, the partner, Theron worship goes back, you know, 7000 years. It goes back very, very long ago. So is there any. We’re getting way outside my comfort range here, so forgive us. Some of these questions are just like that. Like, you’re asking, like, what the color of a sound is or something, but is there an equivalent to Artemis or a separate way of worshiping her in, like, minoan culture? Like, versus greek culture? Oh, well, we might have to do a whole episode on minoan culture.

So how do I sum this up? Okay, so the easiest answer is yes. So, okay, moving on. No, I’m just kidding. The Cretans. So the Cretans, I would say the ancient Cretans worshiped a goddess that was brittle. Martus Dictina, Ilithea had three names. There’s three sorta, and it was a childbirth goddess and a goddess of the nets. It’s a little bit complicated, but eventually they called her Artemis. So I would say that, yes, they had a predecessor of Artemis. Once the Mycenaeans arrive in Crete, they bring with them the name Artemis and the, and they apply it to the goddess that was already there, that Fitzhe.

Right into the worship of Artemis. So that’s. That’s a short answer, but yes. Yes, I would say that they had something like her there as well. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. They just put a different name on their Barbie in a way. They did. Exactly. Exactly, exactly did. Um, because you mentioned growing up and, you know, praying to the Virgin Mary and, you know, baby Jesus and all that. Like, the whole Trinity thing, you kind of implied. Has Artemis replaced baby Jesus? Like, does baby Jesus have a seat in, in your pantheon in your head anymore? No. No.

So I would. So I grew up mostly catholic and I was baptized greek orthodox, but I grew up mostly catholic and I was very devoted to the Virgin Mary. Very devoted. And then I went to university and I actually took religious studies courses to try and expand on that devotion. And it really, the data, the history of it just cracked open my christian faith. In what way? Like, what kind of things were you coming across that you couldn’t integrate into what you had already understood? I don’t know how to say this gently. Historically speaking, it is very clear that Christianity is a political move, historically speaking.

Let’s say is a political, I don’t want to offend my christian mother, but yes, let’s just say this. My catholic mother is probably going to see this, too. So you be careful with whatever you’re about to drop on us here. I just told my parents, my mother, my father’s not very religious at all. In fact, I say he’s not religious at all. But my mother’s very, very religious. And I just told her this last Christmas that I no longer consider myself a Christian and that I will have Christmas dinner, but I’m not. And I, she kind of saw it coming, but, oh, that was a tough conversation.

So I try to be very gentle because I don’t want to discredit someone’s faith. But for me, because faith is different than, like, history and politics. You know what I mean? Like, faith is about the heart. And what you believe in history and politics is complicated. Anyways, the history makes it very clear that there’s a, there’s a political move here. So I had to move away from it. My skeptical mind, my spiritual mind was like, no, this makes no sense. But then I had to figure out, okay, but I still believe in the divine. There’s still something.

I know there’s something. You know what I mean? So anyways, over many, many years, I came to Artemis. I came to the goddess. Actually, the Artemis was still very much an academic part, but I started referring to God as goddess. It just felt more comfortable. And recently I was thinking to myself, you know, I wish I came to the goddess earlier. You know, I wish I came to that sacred feminine for me earlier. And then I realized that actually the Virgin Mary played that very key role for me when I was a kid. And in fact, for my PhD thesis, I did the connection of Artemis of Ephesus and the Virgin Mary in Ephesus, and how actually the Virgin Mary embodies all of the worship of Artemis of Ephesus.

Pretty much. It’s pretty much just a transformation. I call it a fusion, but it’s a transformation from one to another. And so I had this moment where I was like, so it’s possible that I’ve been worshiping Artemis all along, or the sacred feminine all along, which feels more natural to me, feels like the right path. But she was enveloped in the virgin Mary. And so I still love the Virgin Mary very much. I mean, I like to see her places, you know, I actually, just a couple of weeks ago went to a church to Panagia, which is the way that the Greeks call the Holy Mother, the holy woman.

This church, and it’s not unusual, it happens a lot. But this church, you could see it visually, was built on top of an Artemis temple. And the four corners of this church used, of course, Artemis temple rocks. And I was very emotional about it. So this church was the Virgin Mary, built on top of Artemis Temple, built with these large four stones from her temple. And I was quite, I was, I was quite emotional about that. In some ways in a bad way, like, in a disappointed way, in some ways, it felt like a very visual conquest.

But you were saying earlier about how Artemis would get told as a story in a village, right? And then the villagers would be like, oh, we like that. We’re going to take that, but we’re going to do our own thing with her. And that it was seen as, like, no one had a problem with it. So is this the same thing, but you have a problem with it, or is there something different about the way this happens? I think what’s different about the way this happens is that historically, the temples of the ancient gods were completely destroyed, desecrated, violently, disrespected.

There are stories in which the stones were cleansed by Christ, weird stuff like that, and then the stones are used in the church as a clear way of saying, we have conquered your religion. There’s something violent here. Where in the, in the story about the village and people adapting Artemis, there was something embracing there. You know, we really love this goddess. We’re gonna, we’re gonna build her a temple in our village. And it’s like, yes, yes, this was a very much like, look, it’s almost like you dismembered a body and then you used it to build something for yourself and you go, look what I’ve done.

I’ve. I’ve conquered your God. And so I know, I see that I have a devil’s advocate aspect of this, though, because not being an Artemis expert, but I have to assume that part of the huntress aspect is like, yes, I kill and slaughter animals, but it’s to integrate them into your body to provide sustenance. So now that animal that you killed, even if the act of killing and even if it suffered a little bit, that’s all for the greater good, because now you’re worshiping it by putting in your body. I mean, couldn’t you construe that as, like, the catholic church just came and hunted Artemis and dismembered her body and ate it, and now it just happens to be part of its new body? Or is that too much of a stretch.

I feel like it’s too much of it. I feel like it’s like wearing your enemy’s head on your, you know, I feel like it’s definitely bragging about conquest, but I see what you mean. But I. I think there’s enough documentation of, you know, early christians saying, we’re gonna destroy this and we’re taking this apart and blah, blah, blah, and intentional suppression might be a big part, portion of that. Yeah, yeah. And so there wasn’t really, like, we’re absorbing this great thing. You know, it wasn’t really like that, but, yeah, I don’t know how I felt. It was.

Yeah, I was quite torn and I was a little emotional about it. I had to, like, turn off the camera for a minute because I was like, um. I need a minute to. She’ll get over it, so we’ll see. You said, you said you’re like, one of your original fascinations academically was like, the Virgin Mary. And you kind of went into that. Did you. Did you get into the holy blood, holy grail angle of, like, the literal bloodline? So what. What is your knee jerk impression that. Well, let me ask you again in two ways. What was your first impression of that when you first came across it? Yeah, we’ll answer that part first.

What was my first impression of when I came across, like, the study, the concept of, say, the Virgin Mary being like, an actual person that contained some divine bloodline and that the Holy Grail. This is the holy bread, holy grail, as I understand, and that the holy Grail is a reference to an actual female, aka, like, the, you know, the familial bloodline and, like, a genetic code that gets passed on through the mitochondrial DNA or something like, that’s kind of the aspect of it that I identify with. Yeah. So I did a whole episode on the Holy Grail.

I would say, in short, I do believe that Mary was a real person as I believe that Jesus was a real person. Historically speaking, to. Other than that, I cannot say that I believe that anything about their DNA or blood was any different than you and me. So I think the Holy Grail was, again, this sort of political invention to take over the holy land and to go on all these quests and to do all these kinds of things. I do believe, although this is sort of totally non academic, that the bloodline of Jesus could still technically be around because he had brothers and sisters and they had children and blah, blah, blah.

So if someone said to me, oh, you know, maybe the descendants of Jesus are somewhere around. I would say maybe. There’s probably some odds for that, but as far as whether or not that bloodline is any different than yours, and I. I would say no. I would say no. No. It seems like it always gets political with you. Like, you’re probably going to tell me that our picture of Jesus was based on, like, a political move to make it look like Caesar Borgia, just to rally the troops a little bit, right? You’re probably going to go with that dialogue, aren’t you? I think you’re getting.

Yes, I think. Yes, I think you’re getting to know my stance on that. Yeah. I would say that Jesus was probably as average as any other sort of, I don’t know, jew in Jerusalem at the time. So however that depiction was, that’s probably what he looked like. So later on, depictions become obviously quite political. Okay, I think I got a good temperature check on a few of your different perspectives here. And now it’s going to be time to get off the fence on a few things. I got a quick little segment. Let me play the intro and then I’ll explain.

Hey, conspiracy buffs, I double dare you to take some PCP conspiracy probe. On your marks. Get set and go. Okay, this segment is called PCP. And if you want to do actual PCP is completely up to you. If you do want to and look under your chair, there’s just enough to get you through this segment. If you oppose that because you’ve got an academic career and you don’t want to compromise yourself on a silly podcast, then feel free to ignore the PCP that was provided to you. The rules is I’m just going to mention a topic or a concept, and I just want you to give me a one to ten rating on how much you believe or give credit to that premise.

So the easiest one is always the first one. So if I were to say, the concept of Bigfoot, or the himalayan yeti or skunk ape or whatever that archetype is, one to ten on it being a real thing at some point in the world as we know it. Six. How about the concept of flat Earth? Zero. How about the concept of hollow Earth? Four. How about a human being has set foot on the moon in the last 100 years? Three. Okay, this one is. Piggybacks on that. How real was the footage that was aired from the Apollo missions? Three biblical demons.

Biblical demons, do they exist? Is that the question? Yeah. Like. Like, is there some, like, nasty ghost monster demon that exists out there? Two, what about angels? Basically, the other side of that spectrum four. Okay. And you actually might appreciate this one more than most people when I ask it, because usually I just get, like, a weird look. But how about the greek concept of a daemon as opposed to a biblical demon? Oh, I would say 910. Yes. Is that the same as an archetype, or do you have a different way that you understand classic daemon.

So the classic daemon, to me, are mediators between humans and the divine. And I think the Greeks believed that they were very, very real. Yes. One to ten that we really. Okay. On the fence. I think that’s kind of respectable. How about the conventional concept of a dinosaur, as you might go to some random children’s museum, and it’s like, here’s a dinosaur skeleton. That that’s accurate. Five fire breathing, flying dragons having existed at any point in our history. Four. Uh, water into wine, just as a possibility, regardless of Dionysus or Jesus or whoever you want to say.

But water turns into wine. At best, a four. Oh wine turns in the blood transubstantiation. I’m leaving a bit of room for. At best, America is the best country on earth. Oh, my american friends. Uh, 510. Well, I agree. That is a ten. That. So that was fascinating. Um, actually, let me speak one more in ghost. Oh, six. And when I say ghost, are you thinking victorian ghost? Are you thinking, like, um, more of like a. Like a lilith sort of wind spirit that comes through in the night, or, like, what do you. What are you picturing when I say ghost? I think when you say ghosts, I think of energies or entities that are around us, unseen to the naked eye and that have maybe consciousness.

But, I mean, I teach a course on the paranormal, right. So I talk about this a lot. I haven’t seen one or ever felt one, but I don’t want to deny the fact that some people have. And so five, six, I think, is probably the best, the fairest. Can you give a synopsis on your paranormal course? Like, if there were, like, a syllabus or, you know, you were. You were pitching it in like a brochure, like, what would it be? Well, we really just watch a lot of movies and a lot of shows, and then we meet once a week, and we have conversations and discussions about the possibilities of this being real.

And then we read a little bit of few books and some mythology, so. But really, my favorite part is that people share their experiences, their superstitions, their cultural stories, their aunt, their mom, their dad. And there’s a lot, like, stories that they’ve lived through. There’s a lot of people that have experienced unexplained phenomena. So I don’t want to completely dismiss it. I mean, you know, as an academic, when I put my academic hat on, that’s my responsibility. I’m going to give you academic things, but as a human, there’s unexplained things in the world. And so I think that that’s okay to dig through that and see what’s there and talk about it, you know? Am I going to publish a paper on ghost? Probably not, you know, but I would love that.

I love having conversations with people about whether they experience something or they’re, like I said, their aunt, their mother, or whatever, cousin experience something. I find that stuff fascinating, you know? So what are the best fictional depictions of Artemis, like in movies or tv or whatever? Oh, my God. None. Not one. None. None. There are no good ones or just none at all that are remarkable. No good one. The only one I think, that I would say is somewhat acceptable is, of course, Wonder Woman Diana. And that lore comes out of. Comes out of the Amazons.

Yes. But there’s a lot of Artemis Diana in there. But we can be here for another hour talking about how that’s problematic. But when they do Artemis, like, in any kind of, like, mythological films. Oh, they do it so badly. So badly. What? Why? Does she not have enough kick ass girl power? Or is it something beyond that? He’s usually a minor character. She’s often mean or petty and childish. I’m trying to think. I think it’s the Percy Jackson stories. They’re quite terrible. I don’t remember if she was in Clash of the Titans. I think she.

Or. Yeah, I think she was in Clash of the Titans. I mean, she’s. Yeah, she’s very one dimensional. And so I cannot think of an example in film where she’s anything like what she would be like. All right. And then just because this is paranoid american, I have to skew, like, heavy in the conspiracy, I guess, to, like, tail this off, and we’ll talk about Diana just a little bit here. But I’m curious as to the concept of, like, the actual princess Diana being some sort of a physical embodiment, either by divine right or through being projected upon her by elites or whatever, but that the assassination is what I’ll call it, of Princess Diana.

What do you think of that? Actually representing, like, the modern patriarchy trying to take down Artemis again, like, prop her up. Here you are. Here’s your physical body, and we’re going to kill you again to keep you dead. I could see what you mean with that? I. I don’t. I don’t. So, personally, I don’t think that that fits. I do think it’s interesting that her name is Diana, but I think because Diana is such a powerful name, especially after the Romans. So I really like that. And I think she really embodies a lot of the qualities of the goddess, let’s say not that she’s the goddess herself, but that she embodies that rebelled against.

I mean, she did have her own children, though, right? Yeah. I mean, I don’t. I don’t know that even the princess herself really knew very much about Artemis or connected to her. I don’t remember any time or place where that connection. Where she made that connection publicly and her loss was. Was devastating. And I do think that her loss has a lot to do with, you know, patriarchal monarchies and all that politics. Yeah. But I’m not sure that her loss was symbolic of the actual Artemis being destroyed. Like, so I think that part of it, I’m not.

I wouldn’t see, but I would say that the loss of her was definitely political. Absolutely. It’s. Fair answer. It’s a very conspiratorial approach because it’s essentially the Artemis feminine version of the king kill ritual, in which people surmise that JFK was taken out under, like, an occult sort of, you know, like an actual offering to some kind of dark gods. I guess. So a lot of the times, that same premise of JFK being a sacrifice has been applied to Princess Diana being a similar sacrifice. Yeah. I mean, so I know nothing of that. I sometimes come across that, and I find those kinds of stuff fascinating, but I.

Yeah, I could not tell you anything like that. No. So as we part here, what’s your, like, last ditch effort? Someone’s stuck in an elevator with you for 30 seconds? Like, make them care about Artemis. They’re like, Artemis. Isn’t that like that Wonder Woman comic book lady? So I would say that Artemis is the. Was the greatest goddess of the ancient world. Definitely underrated. And is the only goddess of the ancient world that is making her primary comeback. And the others may follow, as they always do, but she is the one that is leading the comeback of the ancient gods.

Well, so you heard it from the expert herself, Doctor Carla, UNESCO, that Artemis is basically bitcoin. And you want to get it on bitcoin now in 2024 before it starts exploding and, like, 60 xs or whatever. That is correct. That is a good way of saying it. Yes. Okay, well, yes. Thanks again for your time. And coming on, let me ask a bunch of just random, weird questions. And we got into, like, king kill rituals and stuff and everything in between. Tell give people a chance one more time to where they can find you and what projects and what books they should buy and everything.

Yeah. So you can find me anywhere at Artemis, expert on social media, the goddess project on YouTube. I wrote a book on the greek Artemis, which is the first book. I’m working on a second one now. It’s called she who hunts. And you can get it anywhere where you get your books. And if you want to join my research and my mapping of all these temples, you can go to artemisresearch.com. there’s a map already up there with a couple of temples, and I’ll be posting all the others as I find and research them. So, yeah, looking forward to seeing everyone.

Awesome. Thanks again for coming on. And if you guys want to see more cool, interesting interviews outside of what you normally expect, please join the Patreon. It’s the main inspiration that gets me out of bed. And if I don’t get a new Patreon member, then I stay in bed all day, and that’s going to be the new thing. So I only get out of bed after I get a new Patreon subscriber. Thank you. Ready for a cosmic conspiracy about Stanley Kubrick, moon landings, and the CIA? Go visit nasacomic.com nasacomic.com CIA’s biggest.com Stanley Kubrick put us on.

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